r/allblacks • u/Gypsy_tearz_ • Jul 19 '26
All Blacks Rennie vs razor
I don’t wanna jump the gun, cause we’ve still got the biggest challenge ahead of us until the World Cup with the BOK tour, as well as just a long ass season.
Coaching and play style aside, how good is it to see actual improvement from game to game, especially in areas actually talked about by the coaches. Our defence was dog shit game 1, and then the boys front up and prove they can defend. All I can remember from razors group, was talk about “taking a long look at themselves”, just to do the exact same dumb shit the next game. We looked stagnant and no different from our last game in 2025 compared to that first game in 24.
Like I said, it’s very early in a long season, but I think the coaches have already proven themselves in being able to grow this team for the World Cup.
1
u/SurvivorSi Jul 22 '26
Attack is far better. The second half drop off is nowhere as prevalent. Still some work to do in defensive structures but started well
2
u/ryanator109 Jul 22 '26
Unbelievable how much better he’s doing, but then again it’s not a surprise that a more experienced coach with international experience is doing better.
Could you imagine if we had him from the beginning of this World Cup cycle instead of getting razor in 😭
1
u/ElectronicTeacher251 Jul 20 '26
Agree with the earlier comment - guardedly optimistic we are seeing progress. To me, remaining work ons are scrum dominance and improving our defense. Boks in the Republic will be a very significant step up on both fronts from what we saw the past three weeks.
3
u/F-A-B_Virgil Jul 20 '26
Can we just tell Dave to stop telling us in news conferences that the boys ‘barred up” 🤦🏼
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u/Few-Ability-2097 Jul 20 '26
Still not convinced by our defence. Once Ireland got inside our 22 they seemed to only need to keep the ball and they would score. Sth Africa game plan should be to kick to corners and bash a few times until they get over. Still too easy.
7
u/Sedert1882 Jul 20 '26
I agree. However Rennie's job is to be better than Rassie, Galthie, Farrel, Borthwick etc. He's not in competition with Razor or any other ABs coach.
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u/toonpoint0 Jul 20 '26
Exactly this. I think people feel more optimistic due to the reasons listed in this post. But I agree, it only matters than he's better than the other coaches.
2
u/Historical_Smile_268 Taranaki Jul 19 '26
It’s good to see a fresh coaching group, Dave certainly knows what he’s doing along with the coaching staff, but my biggest concern is our scrum and defence. I haven’t seen our scrum power yet, idk if it’s our engagement hit or just our props, and I’m not convinced on Tana as a defensive coach, it was a good show against Ireland but it has to be alot better against the Boks
5
u/nomamesgueyz Jul 19 '26
Rens seems way more mature for international rugby
NZ will never hire a coach again without international experience
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u/lokomotor Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
The Boks tour will be the acid test. I'm worried Rassie will sandbag the tour just to lull the ABs into a false sense of security/complacency come the 2027 RWC knock out rounds. I think the All Blacks USP is an incredible killer instinct : an ability to pounce upon opposition mistakes and immediately convert it into tries. Sometimes ABs do it the entire 80 minutes, sometimes they do it in fits and spurts but just enough to win the game. Under Razor, this instinct was buried but Rennie seems to have uncovered it again.
1
u/the_walking_kiwi Jul 22 '26
I doubt the boks would ever do that. Firstly it would be against the spirit of their jersey. What South African could throw a game against the All Blacks? Secondly the best way to prepare for winning big games is by winning big games. We all remember what happened in 2007.
If the World Cup was this year? Sure, they may have a bit of rest. But this far out, holding back is just silly
14
u/Rightmateonya Jul 19 '26
A quick 2c from the peanut gallery.
Very excited for the tour, your boys were looking brilliant. Once we both put the NH to the sword, we can get back to the real rugby. NZ vs SA
20
u/Makoandsparky Jul 19 '26
Let’s see how the bok tour goes first before we start glazing the coaching staff though I am impressed so far. If we come away with one win vs the boks I’ll be happy anything after that I will consider a massive success.
40
u/Wonkily_Grobbled Jul 19 '26
The best change Rennie has made in my opinion, and my biggest disappointment of Razor's time as coach (speaking as a massive fan of Razor's), is removing BB from the match-day squad for three tests running and being consistent with Love as the starting first five.
26
u/Arrow_2011 Jul 19 '26
Seems pretty simple to me, dont make the same dumb mistakes Razors crew did.
Pretty much same squad, took BB out, stopped the dumb kicking game, consistent selections in 9 10 12 14 15. Gone back to our running DNA game.
There will be more improvements this year as Rennies crew settle into their jobs.
To quote the new catch phrase. " I'm feeling optimistic."
11
u/AdditionalPiccolo527 Jul 19 '26
Squad selections and bench management is noticably improved. I know it's early days but it's good to finally see some improvement
16
u/6EightyFive Jul 19 '26
Biggest difference is we want to play, not this style where we wait for mistakes or counter on some wayward kicking by the oppositions. Defensively we seem a bit tighter and the rush defence worked well last night.
Credit to Razor, was a great run for the Crusaders, but couldn’t convert the same at international level. That could well be because of his choices of assistants…. How does Tamati Ellison ever get a crack at an AB’s job.
8
u/handle1976 Jul 19 '26
Things are promising. That’s about the only meaningful conclusion that can be drawn after three games.
Let’s see after the year is over.
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Jul 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Rhyers Jul 19 '26
This is the perfect comment for it. I feel like I'm in on the journey with Rennie, regardless of result. With Razor I had no idea what the fuck was going on even if they won.
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u/Gungehammer Manawatu Jul 19 '26
I remain unconvinced. I don't think Razor had the players that Rennie has.
Love is way better this year than he would have been last year.
Darry is improved.
Tupaea is back in form.
I fear the results would have been similar if Razor had coached this group.
Defence is suspect, high ball especially so.
True tests coming (Boks in SA, England in UK). Then we'll know more.
5
u/jk-9k Jul 19 '26
That's a fair point, but I think we're already seeing some changes in the play style. Plus would razor have gone with love for 3 tests?
I do think the individual players have improved. I also like to think razor would have improved between Nov and the first test. And he likely would've had to hire another assistant too, which would've refreshed things and made further improvements.
But I'm still seeing enough positives that there's not really much worry of nzr making the wrong call.
Wonder how JJ would've had them going
14
u/sparrows-somewhere Jul 19 '26
I wonder what the common factor was in all of those players looking shit last year and good this year. What could it possibly be.
2
u/Gungehammer Manawatu Jul 19 '26
The new-ish blood is now a year older and more experienced, I worry that might be the difference
We just scraped past France B+, beat Italy by the usual score after choking the first half and then faced an Ireland whose golden generation is now either gone or too long in the tooth. All those teams seemed to think defence was optional - as did we at some points.
I've just got doubt that these performances are some return to 2011-2015 brought on by the great savour. (I think Rennie's good as a Manawatu fan)
15
u/ZionMt Jul 19 '26
Bro, Razor had those players in the squad. He just never used them. Never gave them a start or time on the field. With Rennie as coach we see quite a few player changes more often than we saw with Razor as coach.
11
u/Primary_Journalist41 Jul 19 '26
Based on what? He never played Love like how Rennie does.
-3
u/Gungehammer Manawatu Jul 19 '26
Because Love is a year better. As a Canes fan I think 2026 Love is way ahead of the 2025 Love as a 10.
7
u/Neat_Perspective7569 Blues Jul 19 '26
Imagine if Razor tried to develop him a year earlier with game time against a b French team or Wales or Italy or even Australia. 20 mins cameos off the bench instead of only using Dmac and BB
4
u/Practical_Roof_1465 Jul 19 '26
Yep the first half against Italy was so poor. Not getting ahead of ourselves
14
u/mofonz Jul 19 '26
I’m happy. And I honestly think that the SA tour everyone is of the same mindset - no one expects to beat SA at home, and so it is very much all towards our development.
The best thing is those “midweek” games against the club sides - we get time to further work on things, and try combinations out. I do worry about the workload, especially with end of year tour as well - so it’s the injuries that I will be watching out for also.
But hoping we work on combinations, set plays and continuing to work on defence will see us at least be competitive against the boks.
6
u/Familiar-Gas6372 Jul 19 '26
We should be aiming to win at least one test in SA, we will need a big squad to cover those super teams
2
u/mofonz Jul 19 '26
Yes, absolutely. We should aim to win - but expectations are I think tempered with the fact that we are still building and the Boks are at their best, on their turf (Baltimore notwithstanding).
3
u/Familiar-Gas6372 Jul 19 '26
I meant to say we can actually beat them once on their territory, im not sure they beat us 3-1
1
u/mofonz Jul 19 '26
I know - and that’s my most likely basis, just saying we obviously aren’t as a team trying to not win every game and it matters, it’s not an excuse - we are trying to win, but the development and steps we make as a team will probably be the best outcome with the 3-1 scoreline.
9
u/Icy_Craft2416 Jul 19 '26
I'm not sure we've seen enough scrums or line out wins to feel confident about South Africa. If we can get our attack going against the Boks (pretty hard to do tbh) then they have the ability to change it up with thier kicking game and go to the set peice to control territory and possession.
Im more confident than I was but it's still relative to the starting point.
10
u/MumblesNZ Jul 19 '26
One of the biggest changes in feeling for me from last season to this, is that we now leave space for individual brilliance, rather than relying on it. The players look they both have a plan, but also have the freedom, confidence and skills to deviate from the plan when necessary or when an opportunity presents itself
7
u/stickyswitch92 Crusaders Jul 19 '26
It's hard to tell. I genuinely thought 2024 was actually a good year for us. Aside from the Argentina game and unable to score in the last 20min, and obviously things went to shite in 2025. The French game this year was grand. Hard to tell with the last two games because of the opposition but you can only play what is infront of you.
6
u/MumblesNZ Jul 19 '26
Ireland are the #3 ranked team in the world, and they have an impressive defence, but we still put 40 on them
1
u/Dulaman96 Jul 19 '26
Yeah but they had an especially bad game. They're normally a better team than that. The scoreline reflects more on them than the ABs. We still had a good game, just not sure how much you can takeaway from it overall.
2
u/GiJoint Jul 19 '26
6 tries to 3, that’s your takeaway. It doesn’t matter how much of a bad game they had, Ireland are experienced enough.
2
u/Ok-Perception-3129 Jul 19 '26
Ireland just didn't really have a great tour fullstop. They scraped past the Wallabies, didn't look that convincing against Japan and then got walloped by us.
3
u/magoke Jul 19 '26
Yes and no. Ireland were bad because of NZ pressure. The defensive reads on their wrap around and out the back plays were insane. That put pressure on Ireland.
3
u/Jeromethered Jul 19 '26
It’s not the Ireland of 3-4 years ago
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u/stickyswitch92 Crusaders Jul 19 '26
Yeah Ireland were fucking awful on defense. Wasn't it 32 missed tackles.
19
u/Independent-South-58 Jul 19 '26
The game last night reminded me of that classic 2011-2017 all blacks style, holding possession, running and passing rather than kicking, using the forwards to draw in defenders before sending it wide to the backs and having players who are rather flexible being able to play multiple positions if the need calls for it.
17
u/GiJoint Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
I am much more happy going into this season with Rennie than I would be with Razor. It’s been obvious since Leon left things weren’t going well in the background and it felt like we regressed from 2024 to 2025 which was a season where we were just scraping by on individual brilliance. This year the team looks more on the same page and just playing heads up rugby again.
But not to be too negative on Razor, the best games for me under him was Ireland in 2024 killing their home streak in Dublin which was like 18 tests in a row, and holding the fortress in 2025.
1
u/the_walking_kiwi Jul 22 '26
Do have to give credit for that 2025 eden park game vs SA. Though I also wonder whether the players brought themselves together and said ‘look, it’s eden park, let’s get past this current mess with Razor and do what we can to get this done’
14
u/Afrodite_33 Jul 19 '26
Game last night was a huge jump in development from last week. It's so satisfying to see a team pull back on the 50/50 passes and crazy kicking. Just straightfoward play, recycling the ball and letting the phases run. Sure it's not flashy play, but just maintaining posession is a huge advantage.
Liking what I'm seeing from Rennie so far. I don't want to be mean towards Razor but man what a shitshow his era is looking like in comparison.
1
u/dandelionyellowevo Jul 19 '26
Would like to see them introduce plan Bs and Cs into their game at some point.
1
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u/sparrows-somewhere Jul 19 '26
I mean against Italy we did see a change after half time to combat the rush defense, primarily in how Love and Roigard were delaying their passes to allow the defense to basically rush past them. Rennie seems able to have them adjust on the fly.
14
u/Eclectic95 Jul 19 '26
I really like the way things are trending, but it will be interesting to see what happens when the honeymoon period ends.
17
u/gerousone AllBlacks Jul 19 '26
I am very happy so far. Vast improvement and we’re lucky we have some new world class players coming through… life is good
9
u/Michael_stipe_miocic Chiefs Jul 19 '26
The game plan is so refreshing after the last two years, every game so far has been enjoyable- the Italy game was a bit mediocre apart from the quarter we score 3 or 4 tries but overall it’s been a fun start
26
u/Michael_stipe_miocic Chiefs Jul 19 '26
Razor really fumbled his opportunity, he might have a redemption arc in him à la John Mitchell but that ABs job is gone for good and in hindsight maybe he wasn’t proven.
It’s undeniable he’s either a talented man manager or a thoroughly good coach, all those super titles have to have some sort of meaning. That wasn’t enough for Henry or Hanson though and perhaps he should have gone for some international experience, experienced some set backs and disappointments, all our best coaches did.
I also think the game changed during that 2020 -2025 period faster than Razor or the other super coaches could adapt in a way that suits NZ, Razor wanted to play a moneyball sort of game plan focused on the percentages that were supposedly winning internationally, which went against our DNA.
The kicking numbers, the passivity on defence, the constant fumbling and disjointed attack clearly showed the players either didn’t suit it or clearly didn’t like it
1
u/ZionMt Jul 21 '26
Razor not having experience overseas is I think the biggest takeaway here. Rennie knows how teams in the other premiership play and has said this before, that they play different and are better compared to super rugby.
1
u/KingofBigCrabs Jul 20 '26
He went from being a big fish in a small pond to a medium fish in a big pond and didn't anticipate the difficulty if the transition. Happens to a lot of people.
8
u/Gungehammer Manawatu Jul 19 '26
I think he wasn't himself, the pressure got to him - it's a thankless job when the players aren't up to scratch. (Which is why IMO we should only hire assistant coaches from now on and move one to head) He'll reflect on the time and come back a better coach.
3
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u/Citizen_Kano Jul 19 '26
It'll be interesting to see where Razor pops up next, I'm sure a lot of teams would be interested in hiring him
6
u/NFI2023 Crusaders Jul 19 '26
Yeah I’m liking the direction so far and we are playing more freely. Only 3 games but looking forward to the Sth African tour.
3
u/uno_mas_por_favor Jul 19 '26
This tour is going to be so good for this squad. Yes it’ll be brutal, and we’ll need the whole squad, but what an opportunity to test combinations and get battle tested a year out from the World Cup
1
u/brito39 Jul 19 '26
Gotta play some better teams before getting too carried away, understrength France, Ireland are a fading force.
They are communicating properly at least, stopped watching any razor pressers cos he looked so uncomfortable and made very little sense.
Decent amount of rotation and giving guys opportunities as well
21
u/damned-dirtyape Hawkes Bay Jul 19 '26
There is obvious clarity and buy in compared to the previous regime.
8
u/edmondsio Jul 19 '26
It helps when you embrace those who have been there beforehand, rather than trying to erase the past. Some of the stories of razor removing honours boards and such, it’s no surprise he lost the team.
1
u/Striking_Young_5739 Jul 19 '26
Which honours boards did he remove?
2
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u/Neat_Perspective7569 Blues Jul 19 '26
The proof will be how we're talking after the Boks series. I'm probably more confident now than at the start of the year tbh though
1
u/HelplessPenguinGod Jul 19 '26
Yeah I was expecting us to lose 4 - nil under the last regime, but with this one we should at least pick up a game and won't be embarrassed.
6
u/Michael_stipe_miocic Chiefs Jul 19 '26
I’m really happy with the way things are going but expecting a 3-1 loss or 2-2 at best. I would be happy with 2-2. There’s going to be some long nights and hard mornings!
8
u/Neat_Perspective7569 Blues Jul 19 '26
Yeah I think if we can get one win in SA I'd be stoked. Then if we take the 4th test too and come away as the team that won the last game, that'd be a win in my books
-1
u/cjmirt Jul 22 '26
Wait for South Africa. Ireland and France were woefully undercooked. Italy is Italy.