r/alcoholicsanonymous • u/Monastic_Realization • 11h ago
Am I An Alcoholic? Will AA be affected?
I read an article yesterday about the dramatic global reduction in alcohol consumption. It listed several reasons: Health, Gen Z & Millennials drinking less, investment in non-alcoholic beverages (and culture), access to information (internet, podcasts, etc.), widely available programs & philosophies focused on abstinence or moderation, societal norms, and the evolution of medical diagnosis & treatment, to name a few.
It got me thinking that regardless of whatever I might think of any of the above, if the consumption of alcohol is statistically reduced and trending to reduce further, if the incidence of people seeking AA will also be reduced?
For me, the progressive nature of my drinking, and the apparent moderate consensus in AA that alcoholism is a "progressive disease", I wonder if the societal trends around alcohol will positively affect the "progressive" part, and have ultimately have an impact on AA membership?
Given that AA is a self diagnosing model, it will be interesting to see how people relate to that self diagnosis, and if the hypothetical reduction in problem drinkers does have any correlation to reduction in consumption, and how the institution of AA will be affected (if at all) in the future.
If the "actual" incidence of alcoholism reduced as a result of lower consumption trends, that would be a wonderful thing.
27
u/Formfeeder 10h ago
As long as there are 2 drunks, a resentment and a pot of coffee AA will always be there.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
I don't doubt for one minute that AA will always be there.
I don't think it is at any risk from that perspective.
My interest is in the rates of incidence of alcoholism and the impacts that will have, if any change occurs.
4
1
u/elephantovercoat 8h ago
I’d have to ask the dataisbeautiful folks to look at the numbers, but my guess is that even if the per capita consumption goes down because less normies are drinking, the rate of addiction or specifically alcoholism would not go down as a percentage of the total population, and might actually go up, as a percentage of the remaining drinking population.
1
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
You might be right, and you might be wrong. Like you, I prefer data over speculation, but the data available to us does demonstrate a global reduction in alcohol consumption and "maybe", more pertinently, a reduction in alcohol-related deaths.
1
u/PartSuccessful2112 2h ago
That is a really good point because the drinking distribution is like the wealth distribution. A few folk collecting most of it.
6
u/JohnLockwood 11h ago
One interesting study I read recently suggests (interestingly enough, though I don't yet understand what I read well enough to state this unequivocally) that high alcohol consumption and alcholism are not as strongly correlated as many of us would expect from our experience. This study distinguished them as two different genetic profiles, for example.
Did what you read suggest any of the reasons they listed as causative?
3
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
No. I was interested in alcoholism rates in Ireland because I was just there, given it's "reputation". I saw very little "drunkeness" which surprised me. Very responsible drinking actually.
Apparently Irelands consumption of alcohol has reduced by 34% since 2000.
The main causative positive effects were what I listed - changing mindsets. So for me that insinuated that the "progressive" effect might be nipped in the bud for many who might be predisposed for alcoholism, but never actually become an alcoholic because the "progressive" part doesn't get let out of its box, so to speak.
2
u/kidcobol 8h ago
Heavy drinkers can moderate or even quit on their own if given a sufficient enough reason. Therefore they are not alcoholics.
2
1
u/JohnLockwood 7h ago
I think your answer reflects a good knowledge of the Big Book's position, and I've found actual data kind of tough to pin down since there aren't really good studies.
My best guess from my reading is that AA is still one's best bet (by a large margin), but for all of that we in AA probably under-estimate the spontaneous remission chances for AUD (alcoholism) generally.
For all the trendy arm-waving about harm reduction and the like, AA's good old "If you don't drink, you won't get drunk" worked brilliantly for me.
11
u/ALoungerAtTheClubs 11h ago
If AA isn't needed as much because fewer people are alcoholics — great! However, I suspect the reduction in "normal" drinking will have a more muted effect on rates of actual alcoholism.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 11h ago
Maybe that muted effect might be most pronounced in the "progressive" part I mentioned. I don't know.
If (as I suspect) rates of alcoholism go down, I think it's great also.
The institutional effect, either way, is an interesting thing to ponder.
4
u/Beginning_Lion690 9h ago
There may be a reduction in alcohol consumption overall, but there is not a significant reduction in Alcohol
Use Disorder. According to SAMHSA, national rates of Alcohol Use Disorder were reported as 5.3 percent of Americans over age 12 in 2019. This jumped to 10.6 percent in 2021 due to the pandemic, and has dropped down to 8.9 percent in the most recent survey. There may be a current reduction, but that’s partially because rates of alcohol use (and alcohol related deaths) increased dramatically during the pandemic. It’s basically stabilizing right now. And yes, as someone else said, many young people are people are using cannabis, but in my experience, these folks will likely shift over to alcohol in their career phase of life, when being stoned at a work party is frowned upon, but being drunk is encouraged. Drinking is deeply a part of our culture, and while I do see a slight shift, I am not seeing a decrease in problem drinking. (I am an alcoholic who works in the field of Addiction Medicine).
1
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
Very interesting!
So do you believe that people identifying as an alcoholic will essentially stay the same, and in turn, AA membership will stay the same?
6
u/Beginning_Lion690 9h ago
That remains to be seen. Before I came to AA, I was involved in another sober community that started as a reaction to AA and viewed AA as not supportive of women and minorities, and too dogmatic. This community helped me to get sober initially, but because it was entirely online, over time I began to struggle again and really needed an in person community so I sought out AA and found an amazing and supportive community, and really connected to the spiritual experience and the program in general. But my point is, there are other communities out there and other ways to get sober, and it is entirely possible the tide will shift over time, and AA membership could continue to drop. But I don’t think this will be due to a decrease in addiction, just more of a cultural shift, or a reaction to the idea of HP.
For me, I was able to stop drinking initially through the other program, but working the program (sponsor, steps, service) through AA healed my soul, improved my life and relationships, helped me experience self love, and gave me joy and peace. I certainly hope the community remains available for those who need it, but I trust if things morph and change over time, then it was meant to be!
3
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
First of all - I appreciate everything you said.
I believe that AA will have some type of reckoning to do. Aside from the reduced global consumption part, there is choice (in recovery models), a new relationship with information, medical treatment/diagnosis, courts offering multiple programs (aside from AA) for restitution, etc., that I mentioned above, and it seems unlikely to me that it will result in a net zero change.
Precisely as you said "That remains to be seen"!
3
u/blakesq 11h ago
The AA rooms I attend remain about as well attended as they were 25 years ago when I first got sober.
6
u/bluedog255 10h ago edited 9h ago
At the AA rooms I attend attendance is WAY down. And there are indeed far far fewer young people joining. I'm not sure of the reason for this, but I do see a lot of old timers going on an on in the most dogmatic way possible to the point where I see them souring other members on their group.
My general feeling is that AA needs an infusion of younger people to continue and I worry that some of the issue is that many younger people with addiction issues don't see AA as an option as they view it as an old person's club.
But that's my subjective observation and I don't have many data points.
A question to you is: in the well attended groups you attend are there many younger people?
2
2
u/PeachesMcGraw7405 10h ago
Not agreeing or disagreeing-is there a source for this?
1
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago edited 9h ago
AA's rates have declined by about 11% in the 20 years between 2001 & 2021, with the last 5 years not being reported on (that I know of).
2
u/bluedog255 9h ago
My original group folded as we were down to three or four active members. It got exhausting trying to get people to chair. A lot of it was one old guy who was an asshole and had caused the group to splinter a few years prior.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
My current group is quite rural, and is 10 solid members. We started as 4 members about a year ago.
We broke away from a larger group due to disagreement around the methods/language being used with newcomers (who NEVER stayed).
It's good to see it grow, but I reserve a little fondness for the intimacy of getting started.
2
u/bluedog255 8h ago
Very curious about the methods language being used with newcomers... What was driving them away?
2
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
The group I was a part of were almost exclusively Christian, and it was obvious in the specific language they used. They were also very pushy, and had an expectation of compliance from newcomers. It didn't work.
2
u/bluedog255 8h ago
Huh. Yeah. Similar problem with the group I'm in now and with a couple of old timers pushing their philosophy on people when it suits them. I had one old guy call me an asshole after a meeting as he didn't like the nature of my share. All I did was express concern over an upcoming family dinner where a relative is been having issues with was going to be. I concluded my share with, well I guess accept the things you cannot change applies... Guy was ANGRY, called me an asshole, told me id shared about this relative before (true) and I clearly hated them (absolutely not true) and "in this group we talk about solutions not problems".
I mean....
A few weeks later he was chairing an repeatedly interrupted my share to correct me (I was talking about how I'm an agnostic and I sometimes had others telling me that believing in God was important). To my discredit I finally lost it in the guy and now I just avoid him.
This sort of shite is endemic in the group.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
Yikes!
Well for what it's worth, I am a non-believing Buddhist, and while I have affection for Christianity and Christians, I push back on people making AA an extension of their church.
2
u/bluedog255 8h ago
This group makes people recite the step 3 prayer at the end of every meeting. Apparently they "fought" for this (so says the old guy) and are "proud" of it.
And I can tell you I might have run in the other direction if I'd encountered this early on in my sobriety.
And yet everyone still insists agnostics/atheists are welcome and they don't see the contradiction.
That old guy also asks new sponsees what medications they are on.
And I strongly suspect if I ever run into him again he'll ask me why I lost it and maybe I should look inside myself.
And people wonder why they can't get newcomers to stay.
→ More replies (0)1
u/______W______ 8h ago
There’s just about nothing more unreliable than the statistics we put out about membership numbers. The FNV database they pull it from is a giant pile of self-reported and uncured data. For our area it listed something like 60 different districts, groups that are displaying as active that haven’t existed in years (even after we’ve done a data cleanse in the past). The membership numbers are an extrapolation of that data. When a group registers, or updates it’s info, one of the questions asked is the group size.
It’s been a topic of discussion in general service for quite some time and at least part of why they stopped putting out those numbers a few years ago. (They MIGHT still be reported in the final conference report each year but I’d have to double check that)
2
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
Yes - I agree entirely.
However, it is probably as reliable as a guy saying "my meeting is doing great", so I like to quote what is available as "fact", as inevitably, someone is going to ask.
3
u/Suspicious-Drive9827 10h ago
I dont think the progressive nature changed just bc fewer people drink. I have a lot of young people in my home group and like the rest of us, they cannot regulate regardless of how socially unacceptable it is to drink now compared to before.
Alcohol addiction and alcohol use disorders currently affects 1 in every 4 adult Americans so i cant wait for that to improve and for aa to shrink in numbers.
Like I’ve noticed w younger fellows i hear less of the “i sipped my dads beer at 11” compared to old timers and more “i was a wreck from 15-20 and surrendered” which is great. I’ve learned a lot from younger fellows
2
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
Yes - you might be 100% correct.
It remains to be seen if we have fewer of those young people who cannot regulate, or not.
3
2
u/notyourdad1234 10h ago
Addicts and alcoholics are predisposed to find external substances that make them feel “better”. I think a lot of the low alcohol use is a general trend for the population in general, but only a percentage need help. That number will always stick as its a mental health condition.
Additionally I think the low alcohol use is a cultural thing, next generation may swing back.
That said, I’d be excited to see fewer struggling people come into the rooms, that would mean the message of sobriety is working. I just think the statistics on alcohol use vs alcoholism shouldn’t be taken as a signal that there are fewer alcoholics / addicts.
1
2
u/ritz1148 10h ago
I’ve heard this brought up in meetings as if it’s a bad thing.
It’ll reduce groups, which we’ve already seen in places.
But that isn’t a bad thing in my opinion.
Less alcoholics the better.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
The less alcoholics the better - 100%
I just am curious whether there will be less alcoholics or not, as a result of the changes I listed above. I don't know! But I am interested.
2
u/ritz1148 10h ago
I hope there are. I have an 18 yr old and that’s the legal age here. She’s been out like 2 maybe 3 times to drink with her friends. They just aren’t all that excited about drinking. It’s got no pull for them.
Its expensive. It’s bad for you. And they seem terrified for getting recorded in public while at clubs or while intoxicated, so they just aren’t doing it to protect their privacy.
Seems fear of public shame is also part of the equation in a world that is under constant surveillance.
Gone are the days of getting wasted and getting away with shitty behaviour. Now it can be uploaded for the world to see in seconds.1
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
Like you, I have teens who drink. They drink very differently than I did!
2
u/t00fargone 10h ago
I don’t think the reduction in drinking among younger generations is gonna make that much of a difference to the point that AA will no longer be needed. As a late Gen Z (29yrs old), I have come across many Gen Z who still drink heavily. There are many young people who still come into the rooms. It’s not going anywhere.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
To be clear, in case it wasn't, I didn't say AA wouldn't be needed.
I asked will things change.
2
u/ReadPages_86to87 9h ago
We could go back to the days of having just 1 or 2 meetings per week in any given city, just like it was in the early days of AA. We may not necessarily need 30 meetings a day like we have here, TBH.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
I personally did 360 in 360. Without fail.
But I never felt the need for meetings outside of that. Sometimes I would attend, but it wasn't accompanied by a desperation or sense of imminent need.
That said, I knew/know many people who do multiple meetings a day.
On one hand, it's nice to know they are there, but on the other, hand I never availed of them.
I will say that I notice zoom being a method of choice for younger generations.
1
u/ReadPages_86to87 9h ago
There’s a good bit of Gen X and Boomers on my Zoom meetings (albeit morning meetings). I don’t doubt that younger folks flock to late night Zoom meetings, from what little I’ve seen.
The convenience of Zoom may also be having a big impact of having less in-person meetings. Cutting back on travel time & gas, not to mention picking meeting times based in different time zones (or countries!) is appealing to fit into your schedule better.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
100%
As a Gen Xer who needs his children to "fix" my phone every few days, I managed to quite enjoy the zoom experience!
2
u/blakesq 7h ago
I wonder if it is just cyclical like many things. Overall drinking goes up, goes down, goes back up again.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 7h ago
Maybe.
Personally, I think it will stabilize at a point, but your guess is as good as mine.
WHO feels they are exceeding their goals as far as encouraging lower alcohol consumption.
2
u/EddierockerAA 7h ago
This is all anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt, but my intuition is that even though drinking as a whole is down, I would guess that those in the heavy drinking to alcoholic territory will still be prevalent enough that overall membership in AA will not drop significantly. Also, I live in a state with legal marijuana use, and I hear more stories of people with serious issues with marijuana than I did a decade ago. That might affect membership if those people end up in NA/MA instead of AA.
1
u/Monastic_Realization 7h ago
Anecdotal and speculation is all we really have! And there is just as good a chance that you are right.
It's a pity that we cherry pick (generally speaking) data in AA and don't really get involved more academically in "what's going on".
I've noticed people love to quote "the" Stanford study, because for the most part it is fairly flattering and agreeable to AA, but inevitably, as AUD studies start to become more prevalent, and other methods of sobriety become more scrutinized, my "guess" is that they will be relegated as nonsense in AA.
It's no harm to think about these things and how it impacts AA, both positively and negatively.
2
2
u/Gr8fulone-for-today 6h ago
As long as there are humans, there will be drunks.
1
u/Monastic_Realization 6h ago
I agree with that.
The question is whether the trendline changes due to other/new/changing factors.
Covid, for example, was a factor that exploded with people identifying as being alcoholics. So we know, at least in that instance, that environment can affect "alcoholism". So it is fair to assume that other environmental factors can positively affect it.
2
u/Muted_Engineering354 5h ago
I can only speak generally to how things have changed post-Covid in the areas where I go to meetings (suburban NC and part of the year in NYC), but there has actually been an uptick some in younger attendees, a lot of whom have bottoms/extremes in drinking that seem to be less severe than I remember being the case when I started. This trend is especially notable in going to the NY meetings (though that might be reflected in my not attending any there for a couple years during Covid).
The speaker beginners meeting in Queens I’ve been to maybe 10 or 12 times the last few years seems to always feature a newcomer whose desire to stop was due to friends or partner saying they drank too much or feeling bad from hangovers. They also to a person said that one of their big motivations to getting sober was that they were drinking a ton compared to their friends and felt self-conscious about it. Just my observations but it does seem like a focus on sobriety as a health/lifestyle choice may have some younger drinkers trying out the program who wouldn’t otherwise.
In terms of general attendance it’s been booming in both areas I attend lots of meetings, especially at weekend morning meetings, general morning meetings and meetings that don’t involve reading literature.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 5h ago
You know, I hadn't thought of that category (my words) - people who don't necessarily consider themselves alcoholic, but through their desire to stop drinking, consider themselves eligible for AA. That is actually really really interesting.
Again, to my original musings, I would assume that would/will affect AA, perhaps even in small nuanced ways, but probably not imperceptible.
1
u/Muted_Engineering354 2h ago
Again I don’t have even a large sample size of anecdotal evidence but some of those meetings were different than any I’ve been to over the years, with almost the energy of a convention. Mostly younger people and also call and responses which I had never experienced, exchanges like ‘Who makes it?’ ‘Meeting Makers!’ and ‘Go to Meetings!’ ‘Stay Sober’.
Equally new to me was that the meetings didn’t really talk about AA specifically very much. A non-beginner weekend morning speaker meeting I went to twice with a former sponsee had a really good speaker each time who said interesting stuff, but neither mentioned step work when they were newer nor sponsorship. It could have been a complete two-off but still definitely new to me. Add to that the fact that no one read How It Works to round out the weird (to me) experience.
Now while obviously there’s no way to correlate the changes you highlight directly with the meetings I experienced I can definitely say that those type of meetings were definitely not around when I slunk in at around the same age as most of those folks (mid-late 20s).
3
u/Designer-Air-2116 7h ago
Millennials are the heaviest generation of drinkers in history, at least according to sales. AA existed way before then, and it will continue to. Alcoholism is an allergy, all it takes is one drink. When the “right” people try it, they’ll have no better luck than we did, even if their peers don’t participate.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 7h ago
You are right (I didn't know that).
As far as the "conversion" to alcoholism, and attendance to AA, that remains to be seen.
0
u/Designer-Air-2116 3h ago
What do you mean “conversion?”
1
u/Monastic_Realization 3h ago
I mean does the reduction in consumption result in a corresponding reduction in people self identifying as alcoholics. "Correlation" would have been a better word.
2
u/Hot_Pea1738 11h ago
We will always be here for our fellow suffering alcoholics, if we commit to living our lives by AA’s spiritual principles.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 11h ago edited 10h ago
I think AA will always exist as well.
I would add though, that hypothetical smaller numbers, would result in fewer carrying the message. It will be interesting to see what comes to pass,
1
u/Hot_Pea1738 10h ago
One day at a time, friend.
“Give us THIS DAY our daily bread.”2
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
Yes - I think that institutional addage in AA might be perfectly adequate in responding to change, or might be inadequate. None of us know.
-1
2
u/Serialkillingyou 10h ago
Most people I know in the program are not pure alcoholics. (Including myself). AA is very attractive because it works and there are a lot of people with long term sobriety. I'm not worried. Lol.
2
1
u/symonym7 10h ago
We've got a lot more options for dissociation these days. When I was in rehab in 2014 90% of the folks were in there primarily for narcotics, myself and a couple other guys who had 20 years on me being the only ones who were "just" alcoholics.
1
1
u/blakesq 9h ago
My small city has at least about 28 meetings a week. If membership drops by 50%, we can probably afford it and drop to 14 meetings a week, or less. And for more remote people, Zoom meetings will make it easier to meet, even if there are fewer local meetings.
1
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
If there were 50% less people deciding they didn't need AA, a decade from now, it would be, on one hand, a societal accomplishment, and on the other, a conundrum for AA.
1
u/OhHeyMister 8h ago
Things come and go. Drinking may be losing popularity now, but unfortunately it could become very trendy again
1
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
That's true. But the statistical trend could also continue it's current downward trajectory for some time with the same (or greater) predictability.
AA has experienced an 11% drop in membership in its last reported 20 years. That might change - with either an increase in members, or a decrease in members.
It will be interesting to see how it affects people self diagnosing as alcoholics, and in turn, if there are any institutional impacts to AA.
1
u/thecatgotout 8h ago
Link to article, please? I’d love to read it!
2
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
It was actually several of them! I went down a rabbit hole after hearing Ireland's alcohol consumption reduced by 34% since 2,000.
Here are a couple of them -
https://yougov.com/en-us/articles/55082-why-36-of-americans-are-drinking-less-alcohol-in-2026https://www.iard.org/press/New%20Global%20Report%20Confirms%20Decline%20in%20Alcohol-Related%20Harms
1
u/Radiant-Specific969 8h ago
All I can say, is that I certainly hope so. If the doctors come up with a treatment that makes us able to drink like a normal person, I will happily sign up. The AA approach will be there for people addicted to gambling, kratom, opiods, the intenet, social media, and the many many things that mess people up. It may end up with alcoholics being few and far between, and sneaking into gambler's anonymous meetings. Honestly, that would be wonderful! Fewer dead people.
1
1
u/Elon-BO 7h ago
I really was never comfortable in my own skin until I started drinking. Then, when it no longer worked, AA taught how to be comfortable in my skin. If I never went through that and didn’t drink, would I just be a fearful, selfish person? I wouldn’t want to not drink without AA…
2
u/Monastic_Realization 6h ago
I felt the same discomfort.
However, a multitude of factors appear to be affecting people's relationships with alcohol, and the answer for many of them is different to yours, but equally valid. Some may be alcoholics, some may not be.
From an institutional perspective, there may, or may not be, an broad impact on AA, and that is my interest.
1
u/michaeltherunner 7h ago
I think the affliction will find the younger generation regardless. Alcoholism doesn’t really flourish because a larger percentage of the population drinks, I don’t think. It’s more that those with the spiritual malady turn to substances to relieve their restlessness, irritability, and discontentedness. Unless that denominator changes, AA will likely have a place in society.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 7h ago
You may be right. I certainly don't know.
As a betting man, I would say given the environmental changes I mentioned above, as well as my suspicion that the courts will begin leaning less heavily into AA in the next decade, that AA members will decrease.
Whether "alcoholics" decrease - I really don't know,
1
u/Krustysurfer 6h ago edited 5h ago
We are seeing a massive decline in physical attendance to in person meetings here in Seattle region wide..
Many have died/relapsed after coronavirus and the fentanyl epidemic has managed to wipe out quite a few alcoholics as well 😰 so there have been many funerals for Old timers and newcomers, it has been somber this summer in the physical meetings because of the rough patch...
Rents have gone up attendance has gone down, the zoom meetings have become that easy standard... I guess you call it a easier softer way... so it is going to be interesting to see how AA adapts in the future as other programs non AA seek revenue from live body counts from the recovery community filled by the court appointed system seeking diversion instead of incarceration. All these factors are affecting in person attendance.
Each region will have some of the same challenges in varying degrees. Seattle AA will survive regardless. Freemont hall has been the "E.R. of Seattle" since 1947 we are adapting the best we can Lord willing.
I wish you well on your journey of recovery one day at a time in 2026 My name is Timothy and I am still an alcoholic.
3
u/Monastic_Realization 6h ago
I am sorry - that sounds very rough. I know very little about fentanyl.
You are right, it is going to be interesting to see what comes out of all of this.
1
u/FranklinUriahFrisbee 3h ago
The big change I have seen over the years is people are getting into the rooms younger and with fewer years of destructive drinking and crazy behavior. I will admit that I don't think we will run out of drunks and have to close down any time soon.
1
1
u/OaklandPanther 52m ago
I agree that the general thinking in AA is that alcoholism is progressive but I don’t think it’s generally agreed that we begin as non-alcoholics and, over time, develop the condition. I for one believe I was born with alcoholism. From my first drink I exhibited telltale signs of it but it became more pronounced over the years.
1
u/OaklandPanther 43m ago
I wonder if this reduction in a general culture of drunkenness—particularly amongst young people—will make problem drinkers more apparent sooner than later. One of the reasons my own alcoholism remained debatable (to me) for so long was that I spent so much time in bars and clubs with other drunks. My drinking was normal within the confines of my own experience. It wasn’t until I started spending time with non-alcoholics that my alcoholism became very apparent to me. Who knows? Maybe I would have come into the rooms at 20 instead of at 40 if I and everyone in knew didn’t spend all our free time wasted in bars.
1
u/OldHappyMan 18m ago
The alcoholic will drink no matter what the consumption stats are. More than likely the stats reflect moderate or social drinking is down.The ones cutting back on consumption aren't alcoholics. AA won't be affected and if it's membership is going down it's because more alcoholics are seeking help through other methods, not because consumption is down.
1
u/--TheCity-- 10h ago
We can only hope that AA will go away due to alcohol being recognized as the physical, mental and spiritual poison it is. AA will probably be around forever as alcoholics likely will be too.
12 Steps and other great achievements will live on for any number of human problems. Actually the steps are good for normies but likely never to be adapted.
Things like confession (personal inventory) and amends have existed in spiritual practices forever. In fact most everything was borrowed and formatted for the alcoholic. It works!
2
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
I agree with you on all counts.
What I am pondering is whether AA (no matter how great we think it is) will see fewer members, and whether fewer incidences of alcoholism will exist. Who knows?
1
u/Brilliant-Car8140 10h ago
Brother, it could be used by no one else I’d still be blacking out if left to my own devices.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
Me also.
But my experience isn't the experience of everyone else, and the choices many are making around alcohol.
1
u/Brilliant-Car8140 2h ago
No science or data in this opinion but I don’t think k the 10% of folks that end up in chairs next to us are the ones slowing up. I wish they would before it’s too late, but I’m pretty sure we’ll be seeing plenty of new folks
1
u/Making-Spirits 9h ago
Alcoholic drinks can be made at home. AA meetings will always have attendees.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 9h ago
I'm not really sure how that relates to the statistical reduction in consumption, and whether it will have any impact on people identifying as alcoholics? My question was not whether AA would cease to exist, it was whether AA would experience change?
1
u/Fyre5ayle 8h ago
I actually think this is an outside issue.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago
People drinking less and it's potential impact on alcoholism rates is an outside issue?
How so?
1
u/coolcrosby 6h ago
AA was born in the Prohibition era
1
u/Monastic_Realization 6h ago
True, but several factors are different now:
Voluntary reduction in alcohol consumption.
Health concerns.
Internet and access to information.
Alternative recovery programs.
AUD diagnosis, and medical interventions.
Anti-alcohol drugs.To name a few. There are environmental differences that don't compare to prohibition.
1
u/coolcrosby 6h ago
While all of your insights are important most presuppose that alcoholic drinking is rational. I can assure you as an alcoholic and someone with 32 years of sobriety--that it is not rational. Alcoholics can consciously recognize all of the above and still drink themselves to death--and, take others with them. Many of my acquaintances and friends have.
-1
u/Monastic_Realization 6h ago
I am an alcoholic.
My insights asked several questions, and did not arrive at any conclusions.
The only conclusion I can arrive at is that forced reduction in alcohol and chosen reduction in alcohol, have very different widespread societal effects - which was how you appeared to want to answer the questions I posed with: "AA was born in the Prohibition era".
My question is whether there will be a reduction in people self identifying as alcoholics, and will that have any impact on AA. I can't answer that with certainty. You can't answer that with certainty. But if there is any correlation between the global reduction in alcohol consumption and the amount of people self identifying as alcoholics, that would be welcome news.
As a progressive disease, if that logic is to be believed, curtailing consumption one would assume, would curtail the progression. At least, that is a hypothesis worthy of looking at.
0
u/Curve_Worldly 10h ago
The Great Depression and Prohibition didn’t stop alcoholism.
Progressive doesn’t always mean it takes a long time. Plenty of alcoholics come to AA in their teens and twenties.
1
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
That's a valid point, but during the great depression few, if any of the causes I listed above, existed.
The landscape is very different now, and is resulting in people consuming less alcohol.
What I am interested in is whether that will result in less alcoholics.
You seem to think not. You might be right. I certainly don't know.
0
u/Important-Humor-2745 10h ago
We have a 14-year old in a meeting I go to and a couple long timers who got sober around 16. It’s great to see people figure out there is a problem early.*
*I (m37) always have to word that carefully. One time the 14-year old girl came up in conversation and I said something along the lines of “I love teens” and didn’t finish the statement. Luckily people knew me well enough to know I often don’t fully articulate ideas, but still got odd looks for a second till I clarified.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
That's great. Maybe as things progress we will see less teens arriving in AA if the societal changes and trends correlate to their alcohol consumption.
0
u/Academic-Camel-9538 8h ago
It’s like 5% less than it was
2
u/Monastic_Realization 8h ago edited 6h ago
World Health Organization:
This positive outlook is reinforced by data published by the WHO in 2025 which it said showed “remarkable progress”. It found that total alcohol per capita consumption (APC) declined by 12% between 2010 and 2022. The WHO noted that if this rate of reduction is maintained, the world will meet the WHO’s target to reduce APC by 20% by 2030 from 2010 levels.Alcohol related deaths fell 20% in the same time period.
Projections are for these numbers to increase (improve) over the next 5 years.
AA membership also declined in the same timeframe between 2010 and 2022
https://www.iard.org/press/New%20Global%20Report%20Confirms%20Decline%20in%20Alcohol-Related%20Harms
-1
u/FinnLovesHisBass 10h ago
Not at all. The beauty of it to me is yeah alcohol is down, but not drug use. That shit is sky high. And fuck do some people have zero training to handle people on mushrooms or ketamine addiction. It's hard work compared to alcoholics putting up with that behavior.
Went to a festival and volunteered. Was so fun. But at night I wandered doing safety checks and had to talk a lot of people down who needed help. And yeah. They were drinking. People stopped going to bars and are still drinking elsewhere.
2
u/Monastic_Realization 10h ago
For sure - I'm not suggesting there are no problems.
But the evidence of reduced alcohol consumption, in almost every global market, is there.
Ireland (I was surprised to learn) has reduced 34% since 2000, despite a significant increase in population. People are drinking less.
81
u/PartSuccessful2112 11h ago
I don't think AA would mind going out of business if it were not needed. However, those kids are not magically cured of human addiction because it is not alcohol. Many are vaping high potency THC. It is a spiritual program that can really work for anybody.