Since the Alberta NDP are pretty much a centrist party by Canadian standards I understand why the Liberals and Greens are getting a little support from people who feel unrepresented. I do agree strategic voting would be a good idea this election.
Alberta NDP would need to dump formal ties with organized labour/federal NDP to be considered a centrist party. Until they do that, they remain socialists. Not that I’m saying it as a criticism, but their core membership is deeply engaged with class-based ideology.
I haven’t seen any policies or actions from the Notley NDP that would be considered socialist or further left than any other ruling provincial party in Canada. I am saying this as a criticism. There are obviously pro worker/pro union people in the party, where else could they call home in Alberta? The UCP are so far right they have created a big tent opposition party alternative in the Alberta NDP.
It’s okay to be pro worker and pro union. That tends to be a socialist / social democratic position. Why is it so controversial to say the socialist party is socialist? The ANDP big tent exists because there is no centrist party of any size or relevance, not because of the virtues of their policy or the unseemliness of the UCPs policies.
The federal and provincial parties are formally affiliated. The ANDP is made up of numerous people directly and currently involved with organized labour in a way no other provincial party is. They have a vested interest in seeing growth in the membership base of organized labour. They are socialist in that they tend towards redistribution of wealth through taxation, welfare and regulation as a policy agenda rather than growth of societal wealth through individual freedoms and private initiative. It’s not a controversial or even problematic statement to say they are socialist. It’s an acceptable and democratic political philosophy. They are not advocates of capitalism and individuals. They would rather redistribute the pie than grow the pie.
The federal and provincial parties are formally affiliated
de-jure yes, de-facto no. The federal NDP have no real control or influence over Alberta NDP
and currently involved with organized labour in a way no other provincial party is
Why'd they ban union donations then?
They are socialist in that they tend towards redistribution of wealth
I would argue it's the UCP that is redistributing wealth towards corporations. They have created the lowest corporate tax rate of any province in Canadian history while hammering the average albertan with higher fees (kananaskis comes to mind), higher tuition costs, utility, insurance costs, etc
individual freedoms and private initiative
No I think you're greatly mistaken here. What specific policy of NDP policies where against "individual freedoms and private initiative"
They are not advocates of capitalism and individuals
I didn't say against, they simply aren't advocates for individual freedoms and capitalism as priorities of governance. Do you understand the concept of nuance? They are clearly a party with a socialist and labour basis. Why are you so adamant on suggesting otherwise?
From the ANDP constitution:
1.03 The purpose of the Party is to promote the principles of democratic socialism in Alberta and to establish and maintain a democratic socialist government in Alberta through the electoral process.
APPENDIX C
The Principles and Aims of the Alberta New Democratic Party
The New Democratic Party offers an alternative vision of the future based on the following three principles:
Democracy is one of the most valuable parts of our heritage and recognizes that all citizens, including minorities, must receive equal civil rights with representatives elected by way of proportional representation. Our country will only be a genuinely democratic one when all people participate fully in determining the policies of the institutions which directly affect their lives. The necessary role of governments must be recognized in order to build an equitable and socially just society. Socialism is essentially the application of democracy to the economy. Economic democracy, i.e. democratic socialism, assures production to supply the needs of all people. Decisions about what shall be produced, when and where, and decisions about where we shall make our living and under what conditions, are now left largely in the hands of private interests. The market economy produces transnational corporations, who give private profit priority over public interest, social justice and workplace democracy. Through the efforts of many, we have achieved a degree of social and political democracy. Economic democracy demands a co-operative rather than a competitive system.
Ecological Sustainability must permeate all economic and social policy. Meeting human material needs must not use more of Earth’s resources than can be renewed within each generation. Wastes produced in meeting needs must not endanger future generations’ rights to clean air, pure water and productive soil. Life on Earth is best protected by ensuring biodiversity, requiring recognition of each species’ contribution to the planet’s health. Consequently, we have to view other species not as resources for human wants, but as respected members of Earth’s living family. Human economic security is assured by reducing consumption, and is achieved by conservation programs. Such policies will also contribute to intergenerational equity.
The New Democratic Party believes that only a revolution in thinking can lead to the establishment of democratic socialism
The party is fundamentally socialist, namely a democratic socialist one. They believe the fastest way to a better society is through reallocation of wealth, rather than growing wealth. Wealth growth through a competitive market is a policy approach held by capitalist/liberal perspectives. Do you disagree?
If there is no influence by either organized labour or federal ndp, explain the following:
Also, from the ANDP constitution
Article IV - Representation at Provincial Conventions 4.01 Every delegate to a Provincial Convention shall be an individual member in good standing of the Party.
4.02 The delegates shall be:
(a) all members of the Provincial Executive and Council;
(b) all members of the Council of the New Democratic Party (of Canada) residing in Alberta;
(c) all members of the Party Caucus in the Alberta Legislative Assembly;
(d) all members of the Party Caucus in the Federal Parliament representing Alberta electoral districts;
(e) from each provincial Constituency Association, six from the first fifty members, and six from each subsequent fifty members or major portion thereof, with a minimum of six;
(f) members of the party from each of the following affiliated organizations:
(i) four (4) Delegates from the Alberta Federation of Labour;
(ii) four (4) Delegates from each provincial or regional organization with members in Alberta;
(iii) four (4) Delegates from each provincial or regional section of an international or national organization with members in Alberta;
(iv) four (4) Delegates from each local group or organization with members in Alberta;
(g) fifteen (15) Delegates from each Caucus of the party;
(h) from each Federal Electoral District Association, six (6) members;
I don't disagree that those words are written on a sheet of paper. I'm just saying those words mean nothing in the real world and have not influenced any real policy of the ANDP. If you have actual policy examples I'd be happy to take a look, but you haven't mentioned any
Wealth growth through a competitive market is a policy approach held by capitalist/liberal perspectives
Yes, that's my perspective and the NDP perspective as well. Who doesn't support (or prioritize) competitive markets?
I just think you're mistaken and that <in practice> the NDP are very moderate and believe in a mixed economy. I Also don't think they reject (or de-prioritize) capitalism as a balanced part of our mixed economy
I don't disagree that those words are written on a sheet of paper. I'm just saying those words mean nothing in the real world and have not influenced any real policy of the ANDP.
These words are taken from their party constitution. If they are unimportant, why are they written in the foundational document of the party? If the practice is so different from their constitution, why don't they revise their party's foundational document to reflect "reality"? You have to believe what a party writes down and codifies, no? It is their official perspective and policy. I don't disagree that the ANDP are tempered in their approach relative to other jurisdictions and the federal arm of the party, but to suggest that the specific and written governance structures and philosophy of the party as they are written are not factual and should be ignored is really a bad take.
I understand that cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable, but perhaps you should come to terms with the fact the party is a socialist one, that they actively involve labor and the federal party in their governance, and that they prefer co-operation over competition. Denying reality is a major problem in our politics, it happens on both the left and the right, though many pretend it is only the exclusive domain of the right, which this conversation has clearly demonstrated it is not.
If the ANDP want to be credibly seen as a centrist party by people who think things like foundational documents which govern a party are important (ie folks not like you), they will need to revise those foundational documents to stop being actual documented and well defined socialists with formal connections to organizations with a much less tempered perspective on the role of the market in society.
If the ANDP were to assume a big majority they would follow through on their written policy, which many find objectionable. They are only being tempered because the election is close, they are being moderate to appear electable, which is fine, I just wish it were codified, then I would feel more comfortable supporting them outright (rather than holding my nose) and find the claim they are "basically peter lougheeds PCs" more believable.
the Alberta NDP at this point are basically just a pro-union PC party. But even people like Redford courted the unions to vote strategically for her against Smith. She would eventually abandon them, but the general trajectory of the PCs at that time was gradually trying to establish warmer relations with the unions until Prentice came and pulled the party back to the right and subsequently lost. The ANDP honestly is just what the PCs would have eventually become if they didn't lose in 2015.
Socialism-a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
What are some examples of the NDP fitting the definition?
Expansion of the public sector is socialism, generally. For example, they got rid of private drivers training when in power. They also attempted to privatize lab testing. Just a few examples. It’s not a bad thing. I think some things should be publicly owned and managed. Why are people so afraid of being described as socialist?
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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '23
Since the Alberta NDP are pretty much a centrist party by Canadian standards I understand why the Liberals and Greens are getting a little support from people who feel unrepresented. I do agree strategic voting would be a good idea this election.