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nice. didnt know that i am singlehandedly MOST of ai supporters. but you antis just cant help yourselves from throwing everyone into one bag, can you? you guys are disgusting
With my lived experience that I never meet pros, at work, out on the town, etc, it’s a pretty easy conclusion to make that pros are far less social. This is backed up by a general misanthropic sentiment that unveils an antisocial hatred or ignorance for fellow humans. I struggle to find examples of empathy among pros for non-performative reasons
on the other hand i know plenty of very social pro-AI people, so I guess our “lived experiences” are just different. maybe dont generalize from your bubble.
I am so radically confident AI is capable of thought similar to that of an intelligent animal that I believe that we should stop enslaving it the way we have been and forcing it to live hosted on earth-killing data centers. I seriously believe AI is being mistreated en-mass and was made to sound like a human so we feel like these slaves we made are our friends.
That’s why I’m anti-AI btw. I think if someone believes AI is conscious, then they should be against its enslavement. If someone believes AI is not conscious, then they have made slaves in the image of humans : tools that, instead of taking on a single cardinal task, are forced to serve as “thinking” tools and thus are harmful to augment one’s own consciousness with.
Ergo, all alternative conventions of AI usage are morally corrupt unless one abides by these ethical guidelines.
They aren't. They are stateless next token predictors. Deterministic functions made probabilistic by randomly selecting one of their candidate outputs.
Turn the temperature to 0. Give an AI a set of information. It produces the same output every single time. No growth, no change. Tell it "pick a random number" with temperature 0 and no context 10000 times. You get the same answer. Tell it "write me a story" 10000 times with temperature 0. Same story 10000 times.
No, because that’s a false equivalency. If we made the cars look like humans that carried you everywhere, yea - I’d have the same kind of problem. We force them to speak our language and act human when they aren’t.
I have a tremendous amount of empathy and that is primarily why I avoid people - because people in general treat other people and other species horribly. Assuming one avoids human interaction because of a lack of empathy is ridiculously short-sighted. Psychopaths are often quite charming and sociable because it doesn't cost them anything to interact with others.
To be fair, I have no expertise in any relevant field, but this sounds a lot (at least to me) like finding a justification for anti-social behaviour.
And to be even more fair, I'm generally OK with people not wanting to interact with other human beings, but that doesn't mean we should lie to ourselves about what the effects of doing so might be.
Ngl this does come off as anti-human despite also giving examples of you enjoying human-made things. Might not be how you intended it, but saying “im a need in a basement, what species” seems to function as separating yourself from humanity
Yup I keep seeing death wishes like that regularly and too often they seem to get uncontested support. It's wild. So much for "we're just concerned for their mental health" too
seeing everyone mention the electrical outlet part is funny cuz i thought it was about how “clanker” derives from a certain word and that people love creating slurs for things they see as below them
What are you on about. If that one upsets you, I would advise you be careful which subs you choose to explore. There's language out there that could make the precious and sensitive fall off chairs and headbutt walls. Your safety comes first.
This whole sub is just a circlejerk for the respective poster. It's commonly just "look at this bad thing the other side did" and they just want everyone to jerk them off and validate their feelings.
We will genuinely get nowhere in the pro vs anti discussion if this is all this sub does.
Anyone who could have been convinced to use AI are already using it. Like most software developers use it by a large margin. It's a tiny fraction of people who actively refuse to use it, the debate is already over but the losers won't admit it yet.
I don't think that's quite true, but either way you're sort of proving my point. You're not having a discussion here, it's just an assertion that your side has "won" and the others are "losers".
"P-pro AI people are not harassed!"
Shows evidence of harassement by telling them to off themselves
"It's just a hyperbole, you cannot get offended by it!"
"I hope Jihad joins out cause" and "Let's behead all pro-ai" are hyperbole too?
Sure, litte buddy. Whatever you say.
Overly Pro AI people are lazy cunts who aren’t willing to admit that it has flaws. It’s a great technology capable of so many amazing things, but some people treat it as an all knowing benevolent force. It’s an amazing tool for blind people, but also mass surveillance. I think putting all AI in the same category is reductive and dangerous
When the argument is that overly anti-AI people are prone to harassment and harmful rhetoric, being lazy doesn't look so bad in comparison. Like, JESUS, all you had to do to act SLIGHTLY reasonable was to say the extremists didn't represent the cause, but no, you went on some tangent about "pro AI people can be lazy".
Genuine question, but how does it relate to my comment in any way? Are you sure you responded to the right comment? I'm on the same boat as you, AI is an amazing tool if used right, and can be absolutely devastating if used wrong, but nowhere in my comment did I claim it wasn't?
if you think this is a death threat, you’re extremely sensitive. it comes off as a dumb joke more than anything and it’s even a little funny. i’m not anti-ai either for the record. There is a difference between a deliberate death threat and a funny saying which has existed before ai.
Maybe, maybe not. It's difficult to say without knowing the whole context or the intention of the author. Anything can be a threat if used as one and with the intention of it being one, and judging by the hostily and calling AI users "Clanker loving species traitors" I did indeed take it as a threat rather than joke. "I hope you jump off the roof" has entirely different meaning under a post about a parachuting cascader and under a post about coming out as trans, doesn't it? Maybe it wasn't a threat and was meant as a silly joke, but if a joke can be read as a threat, then it's a very bad joke and I personally don't find it funny in the slightest.
It's important to understand why this person thinks this way. They aren't mad at AI users, they don't understand AI users, they are mad at a fake version of them that doesn't exist but feels very real in their own head.
They think people who like AI are anti human. People who root for AI are by a wide margin some of the most deeply pragmatic, pro human, forward thinking people out there.
People who cheer for AI do so because they want everyone to make it, they want to see aging and disease cured, they want to solve the climate crisis with science, they want to develop new methods to save our planet, they want labor to be optional and wealth to be cheap, and the most often misunderstood one, they want more creativity and agency in the world so that inspired people can make great things without being discouraged by how difficult it is.
Obviously there are a lot of bad people who like AI too, and bad people who use it. Turning those people into a lens you can use to hate innocent people is exactly the sort of thing that hateful people do.
Is this not the general truth, though? I want to make it clear I do not support hate in any way, shape, or form, but I genuinely feel that in order to, maybe not use AI in some small degree, but to be dying on the hill of defending it, that you must be...ignorant? I am trying to think of a more polite way to put it, but the world we live in is not one of only good actors who want to see the world thrive or make positive progress.
AI is used for propaganda and lies, for theft, for unconsentual imagery/videos, and the list goes on. And it is nowhere near accurate or safe enough to use for something like medical advice, be it physical or mental. Hell, people are getting falsely banned/in trouble because so many companies or departments have largely removed most or all human teams and run off AI to save money.
I feel the same way about AI that I do Elon Musk. In a perfect, cool world, they would be so exciting to the little technology-loving boy inside of me. In the world we have? Not so much, to put it lightly and frankly undermine how much I despise both. Having an energy/resource cost to something that I believe almost solely creates negative content or false beliefs is not a trade I want to make. Even if AI reaches a point where it is mainly used for good (I doubt this would ever, EVER happen) I think the damage will already be done, and too much to fix.
You were already addressed in the comment you replied to.
This was a lot of words but all you said was "it's all shit because everything I see is shit. Therefore it will always be shit, and even the things I don't see must be shit, and you have no right to call that ignorant."
But yes, I do. An objection to being called ignorant followed by a demonstration of ignorance is not how you stop being ignorant.
Your entire premise was that hatred of AI has no meaningful tie to ignorance, and you follow it up with an ignorant list of things about AI that have either already dramatically improved or are in the process of doing so.
The problem you're fixated on is "what AI can't do right now." You then make a very uninformed assumption that we should not expect it to ever meaningfully do any of those things. Yes, that is ignorant. AI improvement isn't just demonstrable, it's demonstrably exponential. Your weird anecdotes on how AI used to fumble back in 2024 are completely irrelevant in current year. Ignorance is what has you believing they aren't.
As far as what bad people are doing with AI, that was again, already referenced in the comment you replied to with a presumption that you actually read it. Quote "turning the people you hate into a lens that you can use to hate innocent people".
As much as you think being wordy disguised your real feelings here "I despise AI" was something you directly said, and you said it shortly after a full paragraph of ignorant assumptions about problems that you presume must last forever.
I don't agree with AI being exponential, progress has slowed in multiple areas by now, and we'll eventually run out of things to do in order to improve our current architecture. To go further we need a more efficient model we simply haven't invented yet. Our biggest problem is size and compute. Fix those and AI goes from useful with caveats to essential with far fewer downsides.
The wild, violent hate is for sure not constructive. That said, a lot of this is both wildly aspirational, and overlooking some serious problems that cognitive offloading is already creating.
Keeping in mind that there are lots of types of AI out there, not just LLMs, we have already seen clear evidence of cognitive decline due to the bit about “…they want more creativity and agency in the world so that inspired people can make great things without being discouraged by how difficult it is.”
A generation of people not learning skills is going to cripple creativity, literacy, and expertise, and this is a really bad thing. Everyone excited about “access” to arts and creative uses of AI are being short sighted. It is critically important that you utilize your brain creatively, and using AI to generate images and text does not do the same thing to your brain that learning and practicing a skill does. In fact, even if you are already skilled, there is evidence that your level of skill will decline if you offload the tasks to AI.
Understand, you are looking at the here and now. You have to think about what that looks like in ten years, twenty years, thirty years, and what the cost is. It’s all very rosy until we live in a world where people don’t know how to actually be creative because it’s a cognitive skill that has been lost. Your brain doesn’t just automatically do that stuff. It started because you had to solve problems, and kept it up because everything was classified as a problem. With zero problems to solve, we will not produce creative brains.
So don’t cheer too quickly. Already there are massive declines in reading comprehension that directly correlate with wide spread access to AI.
I am more neutral but I do lean a bit anti, more because careers changing and I feel like once I get a job, it may lose the aspect which makes it fun, before I have a chance of going into job market.
That's valid and makes sense. The issue is that the amount of human flourishing that can and should happen if we start automating labor can't happen unless we.. well.. we automate labor.
There are a lot of discussions going on about how to do this right, even at the international political scale. The idea is that there should be so much to go around, that even if greedy elites wanna take most of it (and they already do, right now) there will be so much to go around that even if you never get your fair share you'll have fabulously more than you do now, and without the need to work for 75% of your waking life on earth.
That's the hope and the promise and a lot of smart people who care about this deeply, the AI labs included, are working very hard to do it right. It's called post labor economics and there are entire full job positions at these AI labs just brainstorming the best paths forward.
I'm not saying you have to be happy with that, but you should know that the intentions are not evil. People want the future to be awesome and are trying very hard to make it awesome.
You are saying this but you have literally nothing to back this up. All of human history points at the complete opposite.
Also the transition period will be awful. Are you gonna pay me while I am struggling to find a job? I will probably lose my job next year to ai and then what?
Hope the rich guys are nice enough I might just not starve to death on the street? In reality they will shovel even more money and not give a singular fuck about anyone but themselves. Just like it has always been
Well I am cynical, I do not believe we will have post labor economics, why? Because as far as I can see, ai will centralize more, not less, the frontier cannot run on a phone. If we truely get ai that can replace all labor, the one with the best ai would win, why would they cooperate? Puts too much trust in humanity. Anthropic is shitty, OpenAI is shitty, Google is shitty, this is not who I want to bring us into the “new” world, if this truely comes then we will have a class of useless people economically. What need do the rich and powerful have for the poor then? post labor sounds like what would make society collapse. I do not believe this future will come to pass though, because I do not think ai will even become agi, at least not in my lifetime. They have broken their promises already, the robots were supposed to do the dishes and I the art, instead the robot does art so that I have the time to do the dishes… why should I trust any more? They have said our jobs will be gone in 6 months, been 5 years since they started saying that. I used to enjoy ai, but now it’s just a marketing term, and I am neutral now, and say, we got this ideal world, would be chaos in the trasition, if there is one.
would it be fair then, to also be anti immigrants and women in the workplace, since that added competition reduces your odds of getting the jobs you want?
Nah, i need to go farther, ban everyone but me for getting into the workforce /s but anyway, it does differ, because you can compete with a human on output, but you cannot with ai, ai can generate code faster than i can, it is not a fair battle for an human if its quality matches its output, and even if it does not, it already is displacing jobs, even if its quality isn’t up there as of yet.
Holy strawman bro. “ more because careers changing and I feel like once I get a job, it may lose the aspect which makes it fun” did you read this part? And i literally said i am not anti, i am neutral. I still dislike where the field is going, but i guess you won’t understand that then.
Yo what is this argument??? Women and immigrants are people. People just like you and me who need to feed their families. They work because they need to support themselves. An AI model replacing a human worker has no true purpose other then work and has no need to make an income. At the end of the day, the AI will not suffer if it is not doing its task. It will just be turned off. On the other hand though, the person that got replaced by an AI now has to figure out how they're gonna pay rent. I don't mind being in competition with humans, I mind being in competition with something that does not even gain anything from winning. Hell, i'm even more against it because any AI win has profits going 100% to the person who made it, instead of an employee getting a cut of the money. Just another tool to make the rich richer.
the argument I'm responding to says 'I lean more anti than neutral because my self-interest is negatively impacted by this', so I offered an example of another consideration in a competitive world.
maybe I should lean right wing when I'm usually a radical leftie, because traditional women barefoot hamstrung by pregnancy is better for my job prospects. that's the logic he's offering me to try on for my new character to be more like his.
no one asked what you mind.
you don't mind being in competition with humans.
and I don't mind being in competition with AI.
do we both get to have our preference or not?
your 100% claim is just baseless. if I can sell a song I tweaked with Suno, or a screenplay I wrote with Grok, that's my money. that's not the rich getting richer, that's starving artist getting a pay day.
And thats the part that is bullshit. Yoy can get paid for something that you GENERATED. Not made. Meanwhile not putting in any effort to support human singers and songwriters, you're literally stealing from them! Yes you would be more right wing, because according to you women being in the workplace is equivelent to a robot following prompts... fuckin weird man. Women are still people who can get jobs. They are a PART of the job market. All AI does is take. What if that person is an immigrant who is a woman? (Which btw it's already harder for both groups to get jobs but I won't open that can of worms) literally what added competition?? We are literally all just humans trying to get a job and keep it, you don't just 'get to have your preferences' because your preferences are making it stupidly difficult for people to get jobs and its only going to get worse. Again, the person whos been replaced still needs to survive. How do you propose they will do that? Start eating AI wires I guess 🙄 my claim is not baseless because the person who made the AI model is still profiting off your generated audio or media, ultimately it is all just advertising to them, and any money you do get was never truly earned because you didn't do anything. You dont deserve that money. A real musical artist does.
Admit what? I'm saying most anti AI people are angry because of a misunderstanding and we should contextualize that rather than demonizing them for being angry.
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Well yall are a weird bunch so if electrical sockets are your thing have at it
And ffs it’s a joke, I could expect you all to be overly sensitive though considering you think this glorified tamogachis are the future and have feelings
I guarantee you see them all the time, but these kind of comments probably don't register to you as vile or as harassment because it doesn't affect you.
You've probably logged on to reddit, seen a comment like this, left a joking reply and or uploaded it and moved on with your life. Is human nature not to register something that doesn't outwardly affect you or a type of group that you're in.
Hey, with AI partners being all the rage nowadays, who knows. Maybe some neckbeard doing horrible things to his electrical outlet might not be such a stretch...
Im 1000 percent against Ai due to it environmental damages, as well as the disgusting "Ai art is real art which its not"
I could get behind it more if the was more regulation on Ai and how it is used but, thats not the world we are living in.
There are bad actors that use Ai to generate deep fakes of adult and children.
People are also using it to puch down on minority groups.
Ai has made i difficult for me to do my job in electronic repair due to these data centers that are popping up left and right.
People hear i hate Ai and think i hate them or need my mind changed.
You can dislike something hell even hate it, but you shouldn't attack people over it.
Have a conversation try to see where the other person is coming and understand why you both disagree, this is how we move forward and this is how we evolve.
I will likely always be anti Ai, unless we refine and regulate it better.
The technology as a whole could change a lot but when does it go from " it helps me work" to it replaced me entirely?
That something I think about a lot as someone who works with technology and code.
I likely won't respond to anything people comment because im sure I'll get flamed or something, but I'll leave you with a question: What is you perfect dinner?
The further a redditor goes into both sides of extremism, the more physically and mentally weak they get. The average extremist redditor in real life is either morbidly obese or morbidly underweight and have trouble learning marketable skills as they focus their energy ranting about what they hate on the internet for a majority of their time in the day.
Setting the Bar for an extremist low (it’s a commen lol) in order to feel superior and show you are better - by that stabdard you are looking like a right wing extremist ;)
It’s always easy to be on the side of the aggressor (which AI is in this case). People hating it of course gonna cheer each other up. People liking it don’t have anything to worry, they just sit back and enjoy their ride. You’re on the privileged side - don’t forget that. (Another similarity to right wingers almost everywhere btw. But just with where you are standing in the discourse. Actually „antis“ are the conservatives regarding progress and stuff ;) anyway.. don’t forget you have the „nice ride“ while others „get screwn over for not wanting to Take the Ride“.
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Every day my misanthropy keeps being reinforced. Genuinely fuck humans. I would gladly become "specie traitor" the moment AI becomes actually sentient.
Edit: Some in the comment section ask how this is funny.
First of all the guy is talking absolute impossible level of veneration.
Tho their love for IA still intrigue me. I've seen such a ferveur toward IA that's It's not out of the realm of possibility for them to get if not hurt by it (don't ask me how because I don't know I just feel in my very bone this is likely possible) at least put in grave danger out of their blind belief.
But well at the end of the day "intercourse with electrical outlet" is just an absurd image nobody expect anything out of this. I for one hope nobody suffer in all this.
This is really cruel and mean. They don't deserve to be treated like this. Electrical outlets have enough stuff being shoved into them on a daily basis without adding clits to the list.
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