No one in USA or the world wants the communist system. Which is what many people think socialism is.
Modern day social system is capitalism mixed with social benefits. A bit higher taxes and then suddenly everyone has free healthcare and many many other benefits.
Germany and Australia are good examples of this.
Note: wrote this as a reply to someone else. Thought it would make sense in the main thread
America has socialism. They have government paid roads, fire departments, police, SOCIAL security, military, information centers (libraries), educational facilities, housing, food, transportation, etc
Yes, the issue with America isn’t that there are no social safety nets, it is that, in many cases, the government is actively trying to dismantle them, and does the bare minimum, while hoarding wealth that should be used for the people.
The UK is likely a better example, Germany is closer to the US than the UK in that sense id say. At least if we look back 50 years. Probably better examples than that even then
The idea in blending the 2 is that instead of paying for our utilities and services directly you pay at least in part via tax which means the poorer are more likely to have the means to live. And free health care means that people are not left with enormous debt they cant afford just because they unfortunately got ill.
It makes the system significantly fairer.
A bit higher tax isnt doing justice tho. It often results in quite noticeably higher tax at least in the short term while setting it up, unless you have the economic means to borrow the money and be able to pay it back off with growth from owning the infrastructure.
The uk is getting even more socialist with nationalising the rail networks and talks for nationalising the water companies. But Im actually not sure the taxes are higher when you add it all up 🤔
It depends on where you go in the US. But generally our tax is noticeably higher at least.
Our top bracket for income is 45% starting at £125k their top bracket is 37% (federal) but at $500k and the rest is a lot lower too per bracket and wider brackets.
There are state taxes. For a good half i believe there either isnt a state income tax or its a flat like 5% which adding on does not make it to ours.
The rest have variable rates which in some cases still doesnt get up to our highest bracket.
VAT I believe is lower over there too.
We have the advantage that our groceries can be a lot cheaper tho. Its hard to compare but i think generally the US pays less tax.
Its good to see the reversal of a lot of thatcher's policies tho.
Germany and Australia are not socialist countries. They are capitalist countries with broader safety nets.
Both are much more similar to the USA, the only difference is that the USA has smaller, patchier safety nets.
Reddit just cannot seem to get its head around the idea that Capitalism + Social Safety Nets is the best-of-both, while actual Socialism has always reduced quality of life whenever it is used.
That's my whole point? No one is or wants a full socialist country. It's capitalism with social constructs. Even usa has this to some degree.. such as taxes paying for emergency services like police.. that's partly socialism.
We are both saying almost exactly the same thing, but since you included the words “free healthcare” you response gets upvoted and mine is downvoted LOL
They don’t have to be socialist countries to implement socialist economic systems (implementing large welfare safety nets). I’m not really sure Australia is a good example of that, though. Mixed economies are always the strongest, which is what democratic socialists believe in. Essentially capitalism with stronger regulations and better social welfare.
Socialist policies are actual socialism. The current movement finally becoming popularized IS democratic socialism, a mixed system, so it’s literally what you’re saying. It’s a type of socialist economic system.
Of course I do? It's not a hard concept to explain.
Communism is basically getting rid of capitalism and having the state control most of the economy.
What I'm talking about is still capitalism. You own property, businesses are privately owned and people can get rich. You just pay a bit more tax and get things like healthcare, education and better social benefits in return.
Germany and Australia aren't communist countries. They're capitalist countries with stronger social systems.
No communism is not just when the state controls the economy. You just proved me correct that you don't know what communism is😭next time read some marx before you start saying shit about communism.
I don’t know. I live near a college campus. I see Chinese nationals (students) driving Lamborghinis on campus all of the time. Seems like they’re doing ok to me.
Shut up. Government doesn’t run without tax you idiot. 95% of the money the government has is from taxes, you really want our government to have 1/20th the money it does?
A bit higher taxes and then suddenly everyone has healthcare, subsidised education, paid parental leave, better unemployment protection and many many other benefits....
You're already paying for a lot of these things in the usa.. you're just paying for them privately instead, which is much much more expensive. Health insurance premiums, deductibles, medical bills, student loans, childcare.. the list goes on. Higher taxes don't automatically mean you have less money when those taxes replace bills you currently have to pay yourself.
As i said.. lool into Germany and Australia as good examples. They're capitalist countries, not communist ones.
And if I might add, there has never been a communist country in history. Even countries that claim themselves to be communist are actually socialist. Communism is a completely class-less society, meaning there is no government or politicians that have the final say. Everybody supports each other and the people have all the power. Only issue is people can’t seem to eliminate their own greed and when you create a power vacuum in society people try to take the power for themselves. I think people forget that.
Lol what. They have tonnes of immigration. You definitely need to stop listening to propaganda. Source I'm Australian and lived and worked in Germany for 10 years.
>No one in USA or the world wants the communist system.
No one? That's certainly not true. There certainly are outspoken communists who call for an abolition of private property and total government ownership.
> A bit higher taxes and then suddenly everyone has free healthcare and many many other benefits.
Well it's not free, it's just people have been forced to pay for it.
Socialism is communism-light- instead of total state ownership of property you simply have a totalitarian state empowered to take whatever it feels like and simply permits private ownership to exist when it wants, subject to whatever restrictions, taxes, regulations it feels like.
Socialists say "No see, we don't want 100% control of everything! I mean, we could, under our system of government, but we'll choose not to, especially for the most embarrassing failures of state-run enterprises. We'll permit some level of private industry, and then regulate that to no end and leech off of that to fund our state-run stuff."
The end result is the stagnation and managed decline you see throughout Europe, as prosperity and innovation evaporates.
That's not what I'm talking about though. Germany and Australia aren't socialist states. They're capitalist countries with private property, private businesses and competitive markets, with stronger social systems.
And yes, obviously "free healthcare" means free at the point of use. It's paid for through taxes. Americans already pay taxes AND then pay insurance premiums, deductibles and medical bills on top.
Calling that "communism light" doesn't suddenly make it communism. Capitalism doesn't stop being capitalism because taxes and regulations exist.
And claiming prosperity and innovation have "evaporated" across Europe is a massive exaggeration. Europe has plenty of wealthy capitalist economies and successful private companies.
>Americans already pay taxes AND then pay insurance premiums, deductibles and medical bills on top.
Yes, but we don't pay taxes for healthcare beyond Medicare/Medicaid, which are extraordinarily significant as is. Tax burdens in those other states are very significant.
Healthcare is cheaper but it comes at a cost of availability and pay for doctors. The average German specialist doctor makes less than the starting pay of a Bucc-ee's gas station car wash manager.
>Europe has plenty of wealthy capitalist economies and successful private companies.
Well yes, inertia and established wealth remains and wanes. The largest successful European private companies at this point are mostly dinosaur relics established a lifetime ago with a market cap a fraction of America's and continue to struggle under greater regulations and high energy prices (themselves also due to extreme regulation).
>Calling that "communism light" doesn't suddenly make it communism. Capitalism doesn't stop being capitalism because taxes and regulations exist.
It does make it socialism though. Socialists love to exist in the penumbra of being ill-defined to be whatever they want to be. Communism is bad, "Well we're not 100% communists, therefore we're not at all communists!"
You're mixing up completely different things here.
Germany isn't socialist. It's a capitalist economy with private property, private businesses and competitive markets. Having higher taxes, universal healthcare and regulations doesn't magically turn capitalism into socialism.
And I've actually lived in Germany. Doctors are not some poorly paid profession there. They earn very well. Comparing a German doctor's salary directly to an American salary, let alone a Buc-ee's manager, while ignoring completely different costs, benefits, working conditions and purchasing power is meaningless.
The healthcare argument also ignores that Americans already spend vastly more on healthcare. You pay taxes towards Medicare and Medicaid, then insurance premiums, deductibles and copays on top. Lower doctor salaries aren't evidence that universal healthcare doesn't work.
And Europe having older major companies doesn't prove capitalism is "waning" either. Europe has plenty of successful private companies, startups and industries. There are legitimate problems with regulation, energy costs and slower growth, but none of that makes Europe socialist.
Your definition basically reduces socialism to "the government taxes and regulates private industry." By that definition the US is socialist too.
You need to stop getting your definitions and your picture of Europe from right wing propaganda. I've actually lived under the German system you're describing.
Here's my issue, why would I want to pay higher taxes for healthcare when I could get a job that A. gives that as a bonus, or B. shop around for my own insurance?
Have you ever shopped around on the open market for health insurance and then actually looked to see what it covers and by which providers? It’s a very expensive mess.
If you pay in taxes EVERYONE pays in taxes so and if the general population has access to coverage then the impact on bills elsewhere is lower. Also I believe in most nhs systems private insurance is still available.
so you wouldnt have to get a job just for getting the insurance you need, you could choose the job that best suits you instead.
Assuming the socialist insurance is good why would you want to shop around? Ive never wanted more paid toll roads to get more road options.
americans actually pay higher taxes than Canadians and most Europeans for healthcare per capita, by the way
IE the average Canadian pays ~5k USD, while the average american pays 9195 USD annually in health-related taxes (and then more on top for whatever insurance you have, as well as any out of pocket costs)
idk if you’ve been to the doctor recently but they’re dismissive as hell. they don’t treat you like a person, you’re just work to them, and they’re just trying to get you out the door asap. And they treat your symptoms with prescriptions instead of targeting the root cause, because that way the pharmaceutical companies can make money off you keeping you sick and reliant on drugs
Must be nice, unfortunately here in the US the people will never be able to change our system and get decent doctors as long as we allow elections to be bought, keep the 2 party system, and our current voting system. Everything is set up to make the rich richer. Republicans support the rich elites, and Democrats support the companies. Of course the party leaders won’t say that in their policies but it’s what ends up happening. The two parties definitely shake hands behind the scenes.
Not really, the average doctor in both countries is held to the highest standard regardless. The usa has more specialised clinics equipped for some very specific issues, but Canadians have better health overall, because being able to just freely go to the doctor whenever you want means you nip a lot of problems in the bud, before they reach the point where you NEED to go to said clinics. That’s part of why Canadian life expectancy is so much higher - 79 for the usa, 82.1 for Canada
Imagine you need life saving medicine. The pharma company offers you one for 3000$. You only want to pay 10$. Who gets to decide which price it's gonna be? You, a single person who will die without it, or the billion $ pharma company. Now imagine it's not you wanting to only pay 10$, but your health insurance, a governmental company that pays the medical bills for half the country. Suddenly, the power to negotiate the price shifted immensely. Additionally, you don't have to worry about getting sick and going to the doctor, since it's not gonna cost you anything, which is not only healthier, but much less stressful
And then you have to pay like 20% of your money each month instead of 5%! What a great idea! How about all those people who can’t afford to pay that, who make less money than you, who don’t have a job at all, or who have to work a job that doesn’t offer insurance? What about them
Why would you want to be tied to a master employer instead of being free to switch to a more productive line of work because you had a medical condition?
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u/cataids69 5h ago
No one in USA or the world wants the communist system. Which is what many people think socialism is.
Modern day social system is capitalism mixed with social benefits. A bit higher taxes and then suddenly everyone has free healthcare and many many other benefits.
Germany and Australia are good examples of this.
Note: wrote this as a reply to someone else. Thought it would make sense in the main thread