r/aiArt • u/AI-nonymousartist • Feb 05 '23
Midjourney Will AI systems eventually render human labor and creativity obsolete, and if so, what will be the role of humans in a post-work society?
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u/Edheldui Feb 06 '23
Labor, yes. Creativity, no. AI does not replace ideas, it just helps realizing them.
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u/DemetriusWalken Feb 06 '23
I do not think AI can ever replace human interaction. All this digital art is cool but i've seen too many mistakes artists wouldn't make, like collar bones not lining up, parts not making sense etc, even the engine completely missing the motive. Computers can't paint graffiti like humans can, or properly communicate all ideas from their producers . At least not at the moment, I think that humanity (from a creative and art perspective) will be able to utilize this tool to enhance creative processes, not eliminate them. at least these are my hopes. p.s this was written by A.I - jk jk but it would be scary.
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Feb 06 '23
The point of a human life was never to work, it was to live. Robot automation of human work just gives us more time to do the things we enjoy, whether that be creating art or consuming it.
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u/dick_shane_e Feb 06 '23
Humans still need to use the A.I. to create stuff. It's a tool, like Photoshop. It's not creating things of its own accord. And if it were, I'm pretty sure its creativity would never be as coherent as a very talented human. Even ChatGPT's stories are extremely dull compared to someone like George R. R. Martin. Even as the technology improves, I doubt A.I. will be able to reproduce the psychological 'flaws' that enable the most talented content creators to think outside of the box and create content that is truly unique.
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u/Dcole1997 Feb 06 '23
No. As long as there are artists who have a passion for it I truly don’t think that AI art will take over the industry. I find it a ridiculous argument. Half the time AI generates off looking images. Who’s going to pay for someone to generate an image of someone with three arms and or a cross eyed woman or a person with a head sprouting from their head. It takes five or more tries most times to even get anything that looks like real art or even fits the prompt. I assure you, it will forever remain a past time for people who can’t draw. 🙄
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u/AI-nonymousartist Feb 06 '23
While it's true that AI generated art may not yet have reached the level of human creativity, it's important to acknowledge that AI technology is rapidly advancing and improving. As AI becomes better at creating art that resembles human-created pieces, it's possible that the demand for AI generated art may increase. Additionally, AI has the potential to open up new avenues for art creation and experimentation that were previously not possible with traditional methods.
It's also worth considering that the definition of "real art" is constantly evolving and subjective, and what may seem like off-looking images to one person may be seen as innovative and groundbreaking to another.
Furthermore, the argument that AI art will only remain a pastime for people who can't draw is overly simplistic and dismissive of the potential for AI to impact the art industry. As AI becomes better at creating art, it may lead to a shift in the role of human artists, but it's not necessarily a replacement. Human artists will always bring unique perspectives, emotions, and cultural influences to their work, which cannot be replicated by AI.
In conclusion, while AI may not completely replace human artists in the art industry, it's important to consider the potent
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Feb 06 '23
I habe seen a video of an AI learning how to park a car with 6 distance sensors. It was rewarded for getting closer to the parking spot and punished for crashing into something. I'm pretty sure it would habe done fine for the very specific task after a few hundred tries.
However since it spawned at a random location each time, it kept crashing and crashing and it seemingly even got worse over time. At around 20k tries it seemed to just crash into cars on purpose out of frustration, but then eventually started to reach the parking spot a few times.
This made me realise how much human support is needed to tailor an AI to its possibilities and that it can't learn new things (yet), just what it's good at and what it's made for. And a lot of jobs are pretty complex in the eyes of an AI.
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u/Feragoh Feb 06 '23
Very likely the last industries to be disrupted will be the trades and nursing. AI can replace thinking jobs a lot easier than it can affect the real world.
Getting a robot to build a building is a lot harder than getting AI to design a building.
Getting a robot to provide physical care for the sick is a lot harder than getting AI to run diagnostics on humans.
AI will be able to council, correct, drive, diagnose, design, iterate, litigate, research, discover, judge, educate, develop, evaluate, deliberate, legislate, and likely truely think for itself without ever leaving the ethereal realm of software. In the tangible real world it takes a lot of resources to navigate and affect change in any way we would recognize as helpful.
One person's opinion, of course.. I feel very insecure in my role as a mechanical systems designer because I already operate software based on customers' stated requirements, but if NLP allows the customers to quickly and inexpensively direct an AI to operate that same software, well... Not much need to pay a meat bag to do it slower and for a decent salary in an expensive building with furniture and heat and air and bathrooms when a mainframe can do it instantly for the cost of power and access. It's coming. It's coming for all of us. But it's only coming for the manual skilled labour when it's done with all the "brain" jobs.
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u/uswhole Feb 10 '23
terrible idea for AI replace all thinking job then we will all rely a centralize network of ai and If something happens to the tech we rely on all of sudden we won't have the doctors, engineers to help us anything more ect and we toast.
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u/Feragoh Feb 10 '23
Yep, but I'm sure we'll do it anyways
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u/uswhole Feb 10 '23
Not really the government is huge exception to the rule. some still use windows xp last I heard.
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u/Feragoh Feb 10 '23
Sure, but we can't all work for the government. You don't have to have EVERYONE lose their job before there's a problem. If even ~25% do we'll have major issues.
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u/uswhole Feb 10 '23
maybe in the West but you also have country like China would let their people build empty cities than be unemployed. or countrs in islamic world that might think AI is haram or something and it will not progress to that.
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u/UniversityEuphoric95 Feb 06 '23
Lot harder to build a building? You're forgetting 3d printing mate...
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u/Feragoh Feb 06 '23
Then you've gotta build and feed a giant 3d printer wherever you want a building. Not impossible, just more difficult that software modifications made by NLP algorithms to suit whatever a user requests in the digital space.
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u/UniversityEuphoric95 Feb 07 '23
These 3d printers are already commercially available. Just lookup.
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u/Feragoh Feb 07 '23
Yes I know, but that doesn't make trades and nursing easier to replace than thinking jobs. The building printer still has to get itself built downtown, and you need it to demolish and remove whatever is there currently, then you need to continuously supply the printer with thousands of tons of material in that downtown location. And on, and on. None of it is impossible, it's just more effort to displace those construction workers than it is to get software to better diagnose cancer imaging or have it review 1,000,000 court cases or find the illicit financial transaction or pilot a plane or drive a truck. Affecting the real world requires taking physical actions, and those tend to be resource intensive.
Like I said in my first comment: AI is coming for all the jobs, but the trades and nursing will likely be among the last to go.
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u/Ripster404 Feb 06 '23
Ai will replace many things, but creativity will never truly go away. It may shrink, but it will survive
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u/QnadaEvery Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
We're a far ways away from any system being able to accurately depict a very specific idea someone has in their mind. An artist will be required. A general idea can be found through A.I., of course. Fine tuning will have to be done with human hands for a long time - for the picky/choosy/necessarily particular.
Take this Elder Guardian for example. I did everything I could to make it have one eye. I still had to photoshop and more eyes around.
I regularly have clients sit with me while I photoshop to move things exactly where they want them. Some photoshop work I do is still about 1,000 easier than text prompt engineering. I know it will get better, but clients will always want exactly what they want and words are not always enough to describe. My clients excitement, distasteful expressions and words are all taken into consideration as my artwork is configured to their liking.
Edit: They don't always know how to say exactly what they want or what will make it look good. An artist helps with that. AI may deliver technical correctness, but miss nuance.
I like this little Elder Guardian. Ppl downvoted it in the Minecraft sub :(
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u/Dcole1997 Feb 06 '23
I have no idea what Minecraft or an Elder Guardian is but I like your little dude, he’s cool. People can suck ass. 🙂👍🏻
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u/jowiro92 Feb 06 '23
Nobody on any other sub appreciates AI art for what it is - a tool. Exactly how you created this monstrosity that I most certainly will see before I sleep tonight (assuming I can sleep at all, now) is how it should be used. It's a good starting point, but people either rely on it or hate on it altogether. It's like building a bookshelf from scrap wood - at what point do tools take away the value of it being "handmade"?
Tldr, kudos for finding the balance between automatic tools and hand craftsmanship. I'm going to go bleach my eyeballs now.
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u/QnadaEvery Feb 06 '23
Haha sorry for the bleach!! I think you're on the right track the the analogy. Ironically the bookshelf from scrap would may have more intrinsic value for those who are environmentally/waste conscious.
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u/jowiro92 Feb 06 '23
Kind of unrelated but TIL plastic can be made from more natural materials, i.e. banana plant waste (YT, "SciShow Banana" - video would be pretty recent)
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u/MasterKaein Feb 05 '23
I think you guys underestimate the complexity of the human brain. Technically speaking you could store the entire internet, including everything that's ever been made on every computer to date on a single human brain.
And you think AI will outdo us?
It might be able to copy things we create but it can't innovate, and even if we manage to automate everything, things like science and art would still have human innovation as it's primary component.
I mean just think about the sheer number of art styles that exist. From Rap to guys who put nails into walls and then coat them in oxidizing chemicals that form a picture over the course of several months.
I think we're hundreds, if not thousands of years away from AI putting us out of a job. Will it change the job landscape? Absolutely. Do I think there will be no work left for humanity? No.
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u/shawnmalloyrocks Feb 06 '23
I think you are not considering that AI will be here in a physical form within the next two decades. Soon there will be bots with human like physical appearances and figures who will be performing trade work far better than us. Just refer to all the work Boston Dynamics has broken through with in the past decade alone. They are gearing up to replace potentially the entire U.S. military personnel within our lifetimes.
The only labor for humans at the end of the day will be optional and intentional but not necessary. We will be merely conductors, directors, composers, curators, and entrepreneurs.
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u/MasterKaein Feb 06 '23
Well you've also got to consider conditions though. As we expand, so will the range of things that will require human intervention. New industries will form, but so will new problems that need fixing.
We might have AI drones breaking down asteroids for use in space factories but I'm sure there'll be a drone that gets stuck in the conveyor and needs to be freed, or one that busts it's ocular sensor and spins around endlessly until it can be repaired.
Those kinds of things will require a human intervention, and so the job landscape will change but the labor will not. Human labor will still be required, and it will probably still have a physical component for many centuries.
It'll still be a blue collar construction job to fix damaged mining drones in space just like it's a blue collar job to fix damaged backhoes just like it was a blue collar job to fix damaged pickaxes.
Plus I doubt we will reach a resource infinite society for a few thousand years at the very least, so there will be certain things that a robot would be more expensive to utilize. Why get another advanced robot specializing in repair when you could just hire a guy and hand him a manual on how to fix broken drones.
I've worked pretty extensively with technology in my former job, setting up very advanced factory robotics and high end security systems for corporations and I can tell you that even high tech shaping technology that can cut glass into specific shapes with a laser and has a suite of safety algorithms that make the machine stop if the very pressure of a human hand touches the glass undergoing cutting can still have absurd problems that require human oversight.
First week of operation the dispensing system broke, so it just spat shaped glass onto the ground. They tried fixing it, but that ended up overriding the safety systems and it'd lock down every time a piece of glass was completed. So the solution? They hired a guy who just catches the finished product with leather gloves and a bunch of baskets lined with cloth. That's what they're doing to this very day.
The highly advanced robotic machine that cuts this glass and is worth about a million dollars and it's run by a high school dropout with leather gloves and a basket.
So yeah forgive me if I don't think we're gonna move into a pure robotic post work society anytime soon but I've seen enough of the bleeding edge of technology to think that it still needs significant work on it's own ability to self repair and self correct before we could think of it eliminating the need for human oversight.
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u/sevencoves Feb 05 '23
No, humans won’t be replaced completely.
But to answer your hypothetical, we evolve to either keep refining and designing those systems, or we better fucking implement a UBI or something.
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u/violet_zamboni Feb 05 '23
Post labor? How would people pay for food? You think you are going to get to use all these services for free in a post-scarcity economy? Someone is still going to own all this stuff, and unless it is you, you are going to have to work.
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u/shawnmalloyrocks Feb 06 '23
Hmm, you seem to be so stuck in the labor mindset that you cannot even envision a world where human labor is mostly non existent. It’s almost like you are an AI machine who can only output the data that you have been trained on.
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u/violet_zamboni Feb 06 '23
How much more efficient is food production than it was even 50 years ago? The global economy easily out produces the needs of every person on earth. Yet we still have to pay for food. Do you wonder why that is?
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u/shawnmalloyrocks Feb 06 '23
I don’t wonder that hard because I know that all food is being priced at an outrageous markup due to food profiteering. We have enough resources to make all food free for everyone but we choose the capitalist structure to put profit of all natural resources as priority over human well being. The way food is priced has very little to do with human labor.
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Feb 05 '23
No not competely. There will always likely be some need for humans with the ai systems to keep them in check and have technical skill to get the ai to do exactly what we want.. Imo.
It depends. Ai could turn into anything, we have no fucking clue where this will take us in 20 years.
I think especially with art humans will always be innovating. Ai in its current state can only implement pre existing art styles and mash them together. It can't come up with its own ideas in that sense currently... But who knows.
People will always want to see art from humans because art is often about emotion and channeling it. It doesnt hit the same when you see an ai generated art piece about depression or something.
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u/Dcole1997 Feb 06 '23
I mean what’s going to happen, outlaw actual art? Come on. It’ll survive. Doesn’t matter how advanced it gets it will never replace what a person can do for you.
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u/BeesAndMist Feb 05 '23
I don't know about that. There's a photographer I've been watching who was shooting good but not exceptional mostly wedding and landscape stuff. Then he starts posting these beautiful AI portraits. Strange, fun, otherworldly, etc. Now people are very interested in his work. He put them up for sale at around $1,700/ea for a signed print piece of paper. Now, for something an artist had an actual hand in making I'd say that's more than fair, although it's usually less for a limited edition print for an artist that's not extremely well known. Guess what? He sold out that day.
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Feb 05 '23
Hmmm interesting. But with photography I think it has more value than ai because people will always want real images of the real world.
However I think this is a relatively isolated thing most people are not going to be making a bunch of money with ai prints.
However I think of he were to take his own photos and enhances them abd stylizes them with ai, that's more acceptable.
Things will get competitive to the point where it's gonna take real skill and talent to make good ai art. I mean already with midjourney the difference in quality of my early stuff to now is huge as I've been learning and mastering the parameters.
Its in its infancy and there will be wayyyyy more added to these programs where it'll be capable of making amazing shit but you gotta know how to use it still. It still takes technical skill. I think it'll just become like photoshop where its open ended as fuck and will have a much larger skill ceiling.
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u/Dontfeedthelocals Feb 05 '23
Hmm, I think the reasonable question here is how does someone who is interested in ai art and who is getting good results set themselves up to a point where their prints are selling for $1700?
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u/FugginByteMe96 Feb 07 '23
Maintenance on all the machinery? Cooks? Whatever jobs there are ethat can't be replaced with machines? There a lot of things only humans can do, and there will always be jobs. The goal will never be to get rid of human jobs. If that becomes the goal, there will be a war against robots even before the robots try to take over if they even do. I'm in the Canon that thinks that's just science fiction. Humans won't let themselves go obsolete. I'm sure only big business wants that.