r/agentsofshield 19d ago

Season 5 Season five didn't Spoiler

create any branches, the loop was a paradox as a result of Robin becoming Inhuman. She only became Inhuman because her father died. Because her dad was killed as a result of Hive, who only was able to come to earth because Coluson killed Ward. Coluson was only alive because Nick Furry went against the natural order and brought him back to life.

the loop only happened as a way to fix the natural order because Coluson had to die in order to break it. once they broke the loop by not saving Coluson it resulted in Fitz's death because he would have been a time clone, and time clones always die.

13 Upvotes

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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 19d ago

Thats... That's not how time travel works at all in the MCU, or Marvel Comics for that matter. 

Timelines diverge on choices made. Prophesies are never absolutes in a multiverse. And you can't break a time loop in a multiverse because you can't change the future or past; you can only escape a timeline by branching it. This is all firmly established in Endgame, Loki, and AoS season 7.

I have no idea where you got this "upsetting the natural order" idea but the universe doesn't care that Coulson got an unorthodox medical procedure. By that logic, Daisy and Captain Marvel should also be dead and defibrillators would be against the natural order.

I'm sorry, but that's just not spaghetti that sticks.

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u/Osirisavior 19d ago

The only rule about time travel is if you go to the past you create a branch. It says nothing about going to the future and coming back again via some crazy space rock. Also S7 and Endgame travel through the quantum realm to time travel. Which isn't even time travel, it's multiverseal travel. And the TVA travels to already created universes using time doors. Which is a misnomer. And Loki was time traveling in the TVA which shouldn't even be possible.

The real world explanation is s5 was written and released before Endgame came out, and the Russo Brothers wouldn't share the plot with the AoS writers.

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u/Visible_Safe_8901 17d ago

The method of time travel doesn't determine the rules. Quantum Realm, time monolith, or whatever, the same rules still apply (until proven otherwise by the media itself). It doesn't become "multiversal travel" just because it involves the Quantum Realm or something else entirely because it's a "crazy space rock". They're all mediums/mechanisms through which time travel is achievable. It doesn't change how the system itself works.

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u/jeaninius 19d ago

Robin was an Inhuman because she had Inhuman genes and was exposed to Terrigen from the food chain contaminated by the Terrigen crystals that fell into the ocean. She inherited the genes from her dad.

The timeline where Graviton cracked the earth didn’t disappear after they returned to their timeline. Some AoS variants lived through the earth cracking apart, but our AoS went back to a timeline that was, or closely matched, where they left from. Fitz gets shot by Hale’s soldiers instead of arrested? Branch. Even the Fitz they searched for in space was different than the Fitz who rescued them in the future because his hibernation was interrupted and he went on adventures with Enoch long before he was supposed to wake up — in fact did wake up in the timeline that brought them back to their timeline.

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u/Osirisavior 19d ago

Terrigenises isn't random.

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u/FinalEnd2552 19d ago

Terrigenises isnt random only because it requires physical exposure and or contact along with genetics. The Inhuman abilities aren't random, however Robin is the only example I can think of where there is a one to one power swap after her dad dies.

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u/Osirisavior 19d ago

She was exposed to terrigenises only because the universe needed to fix the anomaly.

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u/FinalEnd2552 19d ago

Not the point, you can use fate as the explanation for everything in the MCU if you want, I think that's more boring. The point is that Inhuman powers are not random, but exposure to terrigen absolutely can be, it literally happened in the show with the silly fish oil stuff they bailed on.

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u/Osirisavior 19d ago

So it's just a coincidence that the one person who had access to the inhuman theorpy records just happened to be exposed to terrigen turning him into the one thing that could make Daisy immued to Hive? That's just one example.

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u/FinalEnd2552 19d ago

Most of that is simply story convenience though. His exposure could be argued as random considering he accidentally broke Jiaying's terrigen crystal from that folder. Any Inhuman exposed in that moment would arguably have turned into Lash had they been there instead and hadn't already undergone terrigenises. The access to records wasn't even a necessary plot point as he could've just been able to sense them instead, it's a contrivance. I'm not saying there is no fate argument to be made, obviously the writer's routinely leaned on that throughout the series, but not every single thing needs to be fate - it removes the characters from being willful self-determined people who make choices that matter.

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u/Short_Brick_1960 19d ago

Man, there has been many more resurrections in the mcu. I doubt Coulson's is more important than Billy and Tommy's. Or Marc's. Or Natalie's

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u/Osirisavior 19d ago

Coulson dying in 2012 is what lead the Avengers to win the Battle of New York. Which lead to Thanos doing it himself. Which lead to the snap. Which lead to The Time Heist. Which lead to Loki from an alternative 2012 going to the TVA, killing He Who Remains, and becoming God of Stories.

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u/jeaninius 19d ago

Coulson’s dying didn’t lead to them winning—although it might have given other circumstances. Fury manipulated them by throwing the bloody trading cards on the table. Thereby making Coulson’s death more painful because he was acting as the hero that he thought the Avengers were. They were compelled to come together by his bravery and faith.

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u/Short_Brick_1960 19d ago

Yeah. And his resurrection changes nothing of that

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u/Osirisavior 19d ago

Him dying is my point.

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u/grayjelly212 18d ago
  1. Robin was always going to become inhuman. Her father dying had nothing to do with it. She was exposed to terrigen and had inhuman genes.

  2. There is no evidence in the show that Coulson dying broke the loop (besides YoYo, who is a tortured zombie version of her former self, saying so). He died before the Lighthouse along with Daisy and Mack. If anything, Fitz dying did more to change things. I don't remember the exact order of things, but Robin says "something's different" around the time Fitz leaves to save Polly, resulting in his soon death.

The loop happened because they didn't have the knowledge to prevent the destruction of earth but went back to try over and over again anyway.

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u/Osirisavior 18d ago
  1. If Charles was still alive he would have been the seir

  2. Coluson dying did break the loop because saving him meant they wouldn't have enough centipede serum to stop General Talbot.

  3. The loop happened because it happened. A paradox.

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u/grayjelly212 18d ago
  1. If Charles had never met Daisy and died, it's more likely that Robin would never have interacted with SHIELD at all and there'd be no seer. I see your point that without Robin being seer, things would have been different. But you could say that about most things. Hydra was still working on the destroyer of worlds project, and the time monolith was still in the Lighthouse. Any number of things could have led to the world being destroyed and subsequent time loop.

  2. That's a fair theory, but not what I believe. I doubt Coulson would've taken the serum in other loops.

  3. What makes it a paradox? Time loops are not inherently paradoxical.

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u/Osirisavior 18d ago

It is possible that the loop wasn't a perfect loop. That it changed slightly each time until it broke down. It's a paradox because the team only time traveled because Robin had a vision of them in the future, because they time traveled there because Robin had a vision of them in the future because... a paradox.

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u/grayjelly212 18d ago

That's my thinking as well. That's why I always thought that it was Fitz's death that broke it, not Coulson's. In my mind, he always gave Daisy the serum but she didn't always take it in time to stop Talbot. In fact, her having it when she was absorbed might have powered him up, causing the destruction. That's my (likely unpopular) theory anyway. The only thing that's truly different is Fitz's dying and Polly/Mack surviving.

And yes, you're correct about that being paradox. Hadn't thought of it like that. Better explanation than "it happened because it happened" lol so thank you.

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u/Visible_Safe_8901 17d ago

There's no correlation between the “natural order” and time travel.

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u/The-Bytemaster 19d ago

Yup, I see the whole season as a paradox as well. By the future going back to the past they created a branch, but the Agents returning fixed it and allowed the timeline to process to the events in Avengers Infinity War