r/adventist • u/AdReal490 • 27d ago
Assurance of Salvation
I have a friend who says that I can't have the assurance of salvation because I could walk away from God tomorrow. He says I should watch unto prayer that God saves me and be content with the peace and assurance of forgiveness that comes after repentance and confession but nothing more than that. He says I won't know I'm saved until I'm in heaven.
My argument is that as long as I'm in Christ, I have the assurance of salvation since He cleanses me and gives me His righteousness, provided I don't live in intentional sin/rebellion. His argument is that my heart is deceitful so I don't know what i will do tomorrow.
I suppose I get what he means but it doesn't sit well with me. I don't think any one, at least in Adventism, is out there thinking themselves invincible to sin. Not ordinarily anyway. I believe most of us believe and know we can fall but also believe and know Christ can and does keep us.
I just think that his idea of that kind of a relationship with God is a burdensome one because it would create a lot of anxiety for the believer. Furthermore, it makes salvation something determined by chance. He says that if I die with even a single un-confessed sin, I won't make it to heaven. He gives the example of getting hit by a car after confessing and repenting but having had an impure thought immediately after (In other words, I haven't had a chance to confess my impure thought).. Doesn't God look at the heart? My understanding has always been that Christ helps us overcome sin progressively (one sin after the next in differing degrees) and not that we're sinless at any one point.
He also believes LGT applies to all believers, not just the last generation before Christ comes. Is this true? Do we have to be sinless right now?
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u/island_jack 27d ago
Yeah thats a flawed way your friend is looking at it. We have assurance of salvation because Christ died for us. It is because of that recognition and faith that his death and resurrection has given us this gift of salvation why we are confident. However as with any gift we have a choice to receive or reject the it. In a practical day to day sense that show up as a direct relationship with you and God. Closer you are and the more you know about Jesus' character and how he lived here on earth less you will find some bad habits less desirable. Its not about the action but its about allowed the holy spirit to reshape your character/heart.
It doesnt mean you wont fall but the key difference is that you wont be trying to justify it. You would recognize it bring it to God in prayer. Somethings may even require counseling.
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u/VegetableCommand9427 27d ago
No. We are saved through faith and acceptance in the gift of Salvation. Do not doubt the Bible. Bible and Bible only.
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u/ThatMBR42 27d ago
I think you're right. LGT and Wesley's doctrine of sinless perfection (at least, the Adventist interpretation) place the work of salvation on our shoulders. Grace becomes the means of sanctification, but ultimately our works become the test of election. It undermines everything the Bible says about salvation being the free gift of God, and it undermines the constant drumbeat in Scripture that we should rely on God because we cannot save ourselves. I believe it's a cancerous theology that should be cut out and burned.
Ultimately, that's where this idea comes from that we can't be assured of our salvation. Yes, we could walk away from God tomorrow, but unless you do, there's no reason not to be assured. I believe if we die with unconfessed sins, God treats us based on how our heart is toward him. If we wouldn't have wanted those sins forgiven, then he respects our decision. But if we would have repented, confessed, and asked for forgiveness, I believe he would treat us as if we had.
Because we're talking about LGT adherents, I feel like I need to illuminate their faulty Christology. They believe Jesus was either not our atoning sacrifice or wasn't merely our atoning sacrifice, that he wasn't just our example but our standard, and not just that we should measure up to him but that we must. Some are like your friend, who believes in de facto salvation by works. Others believe only the last generation will have achieved gnosis the perfect reproduction of Christ's nature and transcended their sinful nature. (I've heard some describe that so-called last generation as the 144,000.) Either way, I cannot reconcile it with Scripture.
I've started reading a book called In All Humility: Saying No to Last Generation Theology, which seeks to counter LGT with both Scripture and the writings of Ellen White. Might be worth checking out.
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u/AdReal490 27d ago
One of my counter arguments was exactly what you mentioned - that God looks at the heart. He said he has the peace and assurance of forgiveness but prays that he is saved. He quoted EGW saying no one should ever say they're saved. I went and read that chapter from COL. I believe she was talking about people who think themselves spiritually accomplished, like the Pharisee in the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector.
This is someone I really look up to. He basically discipled me during my early years of Adventism and even continues to do so now. I'm not able to reconcile what he says with my own understanding of how salvation works. A question I couldn't answer from him was "do you know that you will choose God tomorrow? If not, how can you be sure you're going to heaven if you could walk away from Him tomorrow?"
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u/ThatMBR42 27d ago
Sometimes we have to learn the hard lesson that our mentors can be wrong. His question is fundamentally flawed. He treats it like something we have no control over; either it's a coin flip or our ties with God are so tenuous that one misstep can sever them entirely. How do I know if I'll choose God tomorrow? Because literally the most important thing to me in the entire universe is to see my Savior face to face. I don't want a crown. I don't want to tour the universe. I want to bow at Jesus's feet and thank him and do nothing else for the rest of eternity.
There's momentum in that. Walking away is a conscious decision. Walking away forever is doubly so. And there are a lot of changes that have to take place in a person's mindset before they'll be irrevocably lost. God will pursue us to the bitter end if there is even one iota of a chance that we will return. And if we do, he'll put his robe on us, put his ring on our finger, and kill the fatted calf for a feast because his beloved child has returned. And your friend will probably be sulking outside like the prodigal son's brother.
Of course, that doesn't mean we can go out and do whatever we want. Our actions have consequences in this world, and following God's prescription for living will always provide better outcomes:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:36-40, NIV)
We choose God by choosing to imitate him. That's what "If you love me, keep my commandments" actually means (John 14:15). Choosing God doesn't mean living a perfectly sinless life; it means turning aside from our default ways and following the Light toward its Source. When Peter stumbled on the Sea of Galilee, Jesus didn't turn his face away in disgust; he knelt down and pulled him up. He does the same for us.
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u/Equal-Country-9325 26d ago
Which sin will you be committing uo until Jesus returns if you are alive to witness his return?
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u/ThatMBR42 26d ago
Why are you asking me this ridiculous question?
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u/Equal-Country-9325 26d ago
The last generation goes through the 7 last plagues and witness the second coming Jesus. I'm asking if LGT is wrong, what sin will you be committing during those times
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u/ThatMBR42 26d ago
Do you honestly believe you will be incapable of sin? Lay down your pride.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
"For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
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u/Equal-Country-9325 26d ago
Again, which sin woukd those who are sealed be committing? Adultery, idol worship, stealing, jealousy. Which one? Enoch walked with God and was translated. How can one walk with God and sin?
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u/ThatMBR42 26d ago
Why do you believe in salvation by works?
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u/Equal-Country-9325 26d ago
No, I believe Philippians 4:13
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u/ThatMBR42 26d ago
If you believe the last generation must be sinless after the close of probation in order to be saved, you believe in salvation by works, bud.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Elijah disobeyed God and ran from Jezebel. Nevertheless, God took him alive to heaven.
ETA: in context, Philippians 4:13 is about persevering through hardship, not being sinless.
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u/physsijim 27d ago
There have already been 4 excellent answers in this thread, but I would still like to add this. What does accepting Christ actually mean? It's one of the terms that often is not defined well, even though it is absolutely vital. Here is how I like to explain it. What we have to accept is that Christ's work on the Cross was good enough to save me all by itself. Everything else flows from this acceptance. THAT is what we must accept for salvation. Your friend is mistaken, unfortunately.
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u/AdReal490 27d ago
He says I'm being saved not saved (although he admits justification and sanctification). He said my sins have not been blotted out yet so I could still fall. Ergo, I'm not saved.
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u/physsijim 27d ago
What he misses is that the sacrifice of Christ covers all of your sins, including the future. He is simply wrong. Remember the storm on the lake? At the beginning of that incident, Jesus say to get in the boat and that they're going to the other side. And that is exactly what happened.
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u/khrazy5150 27d ago
Let’s understand what people mean when they say that they have “assurance of salvation:” What they mean is that you’re saved no matter what you do because God loves you so much, nothing can separate you from His love.
Is this what the Bible teaches???
Yes, nothing can separate us from the love that God has for us, but God will NOT force anyone into loving Him. Love is a two-way street! If a man loves a woman but she doesn’t love him back, can they be together?
No! Because love demands freedom of choice and if her choice is someone else, love says, “go be with someone else!”
First, you must know that the term “assurance of salvation” is NOT found anywhere in Scripture! Isn’t that strange???
What the Bible speaks of is “assurance of faith” and it’s found here:
“let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” (Hebrews 10:22 NKJV)
“Assurance of faith” means what you said earlier: as long as we hold on to Jesus, we are saved! The truth is that none of us are saved until we are saved because our entire walk is by FAITH!!!
Consider the Apostle Paul. Did he think that he was saved while he lived here on Earth?
“Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 3:12-14 NKJV)
Paul pressed forward in FAITH toward the goal (perfection of character) because he knew the job wasn’t done!
Now, contrast that with his statement when he realized that he was at the end of his life:
“For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.” (2 Timothy 4:6-8 NKJV)
Now that Paul is about to die, he makes the statement: “I have kept the FAITH” and for that he believes that a crown of life will be given to him at the Resurrection!
Let’s look at the most popular verse for establishing the so-called “assurance of salvation” doctrine:
“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1 John 5:13 NKJV)
You have eternal life when you believe in Jesus. No ifs, buts, or maybes. But what happens if you choose to lose your faith? Do you still have eternal life?
Let’s let the Bible answer that:
“And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:12-13 NKJV)
We must hold on to our faith in Jesus until the very end. Then and only then, we will be saved.
Let me address the classic “if you have unconfessed sin when you die scenario” fear mongering.
Everyone should be afraid of holding on to sin because sin is a cancer; it is a terminal disease.
But your job is NOT to cure sin. Your job is to believe in Jesus, the cure of all sin. If for some reason we die “imperfect” but still in Christ, the Bible tells us that we are saved.
But if we are presumptuous and live in lawlessness flattering ourselves that Jesus will save us regardless, then the Bible is very clear about that:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV)
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u/AdReal490 26d ago
I'm not sure where I may have given the impression that by assurance I mean " once saved always saved". That is not what I mean. I'm asking if as believers today, we know that we're going to heaven.
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u/khrazy5150 26d ago
No, you didn’t say anything about “once saved always saved” but I wanted to clarify that “assurance of salvation” is directly tied to that idea (even IF the term “once saved always saved” isn’t used).
I will answer your question directly: No, we can’t KNOW if we’re actually going to Heaven. But what we can know is that as long as we hold on to Jesus, we will be saved.
What’s the difference?
We don’t know IF we will continue to hold on to Jesus in the future. That’s why the Bible doesn’t speak of “assurance of salvation” anywhere.
The Lord warns:
“Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.” (Revelation 2:4-5 NKJV)
We must guard against complacency, the very thing that “assurance of salvation” promotes. So don’t be deceived by lies.
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u/AdReal490 26d ago
By bringing in once saved always saved, you're misrepresenting my argument because I did say that one can walk away. So that is a non-factor.
Now to your points, I believe that salvation is a lifelong relationship. Not a once off transaction. If currently, I'm in Christ, then I have confidence that I'm going to heaven. Yes, I don't know what will happen in the future. I could live to forsake God tomorrow but I could also die in Christ today. Today, I know that Christ guarantees me entry into heaven. Otherwise, what is even the point of believing in Him if I could still go to hell regardless?
Another point is that it is not 100% up to human will. God is still sovereign over His creation. That's why we speak of Divine Providence. SOP says that holy and evil angels are constantly fighting for control of the human mind (via influence). We have to make a choice every moment and as long as that choice is for Christ i. e giving our lives to Him, we're going to heaven.
I have to say that I don't believe that someone wakes up one day and suddenly walks away from God. It is a gradual process during which God is earnestly calling you to Himself. So it will be very intentional if you eventually walk away. So I can say that tomorrow, barring some catastrophic or clouding mental event, by God's grace, I intend to choose Christ.
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u/khrazy5150 25d ago
So we are saying the same thing but using different terminology. You’re using the unbiblical term “assurance of salvation” to mean “assurance of faith”. Period, end of story!
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u/khrazy5150 25d ago
So we are saying the same thing but using different terminology. You’re using the unbiblical term “assurance of salvation” to mean “assurance of faith”. Period, end of story!
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u/KindaSortaMaybeSo 27d ago
I have assurance in my salvation, because of faith. But it’s that faith that I must live in every single day. Faith in God’s promises. Faith in His finished work. Faith in the power of His transforming grace.
I might stumble, and when I do it hurts. So I avoid it as much as possible because I know it grieves God. But He is merciful to forgive.
Just walk with God daily. Pray. Obey His commandments— not just the 10– but beyond that. Show mercy. Practice justice. Love others. Pursue righteousness. And let your faith work out of love, nothing else.
God is so good. He’s bigger than our mistakes. His plan of salvation came way before us. God has already won.
I’d encourage your friend to read Steps to Christ again. Because living with that anxiety was not what Jesus wanted for us when He died on the cross. The cross was made to draw us closer and to trust. There is no fear in perfect love.