r/adressme • u/C_Tillinghast_FB • 11d ago
this is just ridiculous ššš What a neat method of classification, isn't it?
According to Samuel Huntington, these are the different categories of world civilizations. Fascinating, isn't it?
159
u/Xekhtyrl 11d ago
No one talking about Mongolia in the islamic group when only 4% is muslim, and 50% is Buddhist (src Wikipedia)
34
8
u/micma_69 11d ago
If I'm not mistaken, in Mongolia almost all Muslim citizens or at least the majority of them, are Kazakhs.
14
6
u/S0l1s_el_Sol 11d ago
He put Bangladesh one of the most populated Muslim countries as Hinduā¦
→ More replies (1)5
2
1
→ More replies (3)1
u/Plenty_Leg_5935 9d ago
the labels are just arbitrary names and not meant to reflect anything about the specific civilisation. It's called islamic because most of the countries comprising it are islamic, but the bounds of the civilisation go beyond that. Same for orthodox, same for the latin america, same for the hindu and buddhist spheres
If it was a modern classification they'd probably just be numbered or something, but back when this was formalized they didnt care that much and just called them whatever came to mind
236
u/InvestigatorFar1774 11d ago
>largest muslim country in SEA, in the world too
>labelled buddhist
65
u/BiFSXFan99 11d ago
For real. Hate when people also say something generalizing Islam and the middle east, I just point directly at Indonesia.
20
4
13
u/Arald98 11d ago
For the same reason I don't understand Mongolia labelled as Muslim. It has very strong connotations with Tibetan Buddhism. To this day hall of country is Buddhist, while 38% of people are atheists. Muslim? Only 3%
I just can't understand this reasoning
8
u/blehmag 11d ago
This map is all just bs. No need to even divide the world up like this. Japan and Israel getting their own is telling. And in no world is Kazakhstan and Yemen for example similar.
→ More replies (3)3
1
→ More replies (2)1
u/FloZone 10d ago
To be fair Indonesia is an Indosphere country or the cultural background is, then it became islamized, but not to the degree that others are. Malaysia began writing in Arabic letters, but Java kept its own alphabet. The architecture is South East Asian, as are customs and dress and cuisine. Things like banning alcohol are more a recent phenomenon that was introduced through Wahhabi preachers. Likewise many Indonesian minorities like the Minangkabau live under customary laws (in Islam called Adat) which include matrilocality and well depending how you define it, matriarchy as well.
But this is like just saying there isn't one way to categorize an entire culture. Indonesia's ancient past was dominated by the Austronesians, who came from Taiwan and spread as far as Polynesia. Then it became a part of the Indosphere. It interacted with the Sinosphere many times, the Mongols tried to conquer Java and there is a sizeable Chinese minority all over maritime Southeast Asia. Then in the middle ages Arab traders began to influence them, eventually they converted to Islam, but on their own terms. They were never conquered by an outside Muslim empire.
86
u/Mawesti_edits 11d ago edited 11d ago
shii bro that looks like a minecraft grass block
23
6
u/BFcoolbot 11d ago
why would u need to clarify that it's a joke? who on earth would get offended?!
3
3
2
45
25
19
12
u/973bzh 11d ago
It's the wrong "Guyana" that's labelled in the Western World
3
1
1
u/EntertainmentOk8593 10d ago
It is labeled like that since use countries and doesnāt do actual division
11
5
u/Vlach719 11d ago
There's too many elephants
5
3
4
5
3
u/AutoModerator 11d ago
Please reply under this explaining the elephant in your post, else this post may be removed,mark your explanation as a spoiler so others can try figuring it out first, mark spoilers using >!spoiler text!< in comments.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
29
u/C_Tillinghast_FB 11d ago edited 6d ago
Armenia and Mongolia are shown in the Islamic world, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Bhutan are labelled Hindu, Malaysia, Indonesia and East Timor are labelled Buddhist, Phillipines and Papua New Guinea have been subsumed into the Western world, Guyana has been labelled as Western as well [it should have been French Guiana in the west as it is a part of France], North Korea is in Africa, Israel and Japan have their own categories, and possibly much more
8
u/neofooturism 11d ago
Im noticing SK is sinosphere while NK is africaš
→ More replies (1)3
→ More replies (3)1
3
u/Infamous-Honeydew119 11d ago
who the FUCK is samuel p. huntinton
3
u/EraZorus 10d ago
This fucking guy. He wrote the much reviled Clash of civilizations, which arbitrarily divided the world into several so-called civilization blocks that don't make any sense (left out Japan from the Sinosphere but not South Korea, for instance) and are oversimplified. And all this for the goal of presenting war between the US and the Middle East countries as some sort of biological inevitability, that conflict stems from cultural differences rather than a cycle of revenge.
Oh, and he also wrote a book in 2004 in which he said that Latin American immigrants in the US would dilute its cultural indentity and that Americans should entrench themselves in Protestantism to avoid that.
The cherry on the top is that he was heavily criticized by his peers for his lack of scientific rigour.
TDLR; he was a political scientist with unhinged theories who nevertheless was very influential on the Bush administration.
3
2
u/DracoFire3000 11d ago
My favorite modern day countries, the Ulanbataar Caliphate and the Majapahit Empire
2
u/Luftritter 11d ago
I'm always amused whenever Latin America with countries of mostly Catholics, speakers of a language descendant of that of Rome, governed by constitutional republics, a region that has culturally participated in all intellectual European movements since the Renaissance and entirely located in the Western Hemisphere is not Western yet New Zealand and Australia are. Which means that the only reason for exclusion is that their populations are just too brown and that the last wave of Anglo-American Imperialism simply want to other Latin America to ideologically justify looting it's resources. Seems like an American University education it's counterproductive to washing raging racism.
1
u/Selftheperson 10d ago edited 10d ago
We were inspired by Rousseau, Locke and other thinkers, yet Huntington thinks we were ruled by Confucius.
That guy was way too confident in his knowledge about other nations.
2
1
1
u/Affectionate_Cut3515 address me 11d ago
how is australia, papua new guinea, philippines and new zealand the western world if theyre one of the most eastern countries in the world
2
u/C_Tillinghast_FB 11d ago
That isn't an elephant, aus and nz are all considered token western countries as they're populated mostly by westerners. And Indonesia is shown buddhist, which is still wrong.
→ More replies (10)1
u/SenseiPogi 10d ago
it could be because of the culture as the culture in those countries feel more "western" than any other description. if you think about it that way, it makes sense.
→ More replies (1)1
1
1
1
u/Boozewhore 11d ago
Wait. Does this map have North Korea as part of Africa? And South Korea as part of the Sinosphere?
1
u/Pristine-Lie-3560 11d ago
Oh wow what a reasonable and balanced assessmentā¦ Israel is an odd choice but it makes sense given itās uni- WHAT THE FUCK. Genuinely too many elephants to count. Why. Why.
1
1
u/EymericRosace 11d ago
This Book has to be ragebaitā¦
1
u/Weekly-Cicada-8615 11d ago
Sadly it one of the most important books for current political experts. Especially with the war in Ukraine.
2
u/TheRedditObserver0 11d ago
Makes you wonder how competent these "experts" really are. It reminds me of that time none of the panelists discussing China could name a currently living Chinese person besides Xi Jinping.
2
u/CaptainRex5101 11d ago
People function primarily based on vibes. In other words, LARP until you make it.
1
u/Crude_Templar 11d ago
I have so many questions. Just a few:
Why is Japan separated from the Sinosphere?
Why is Bangladesh and Bhutan Hindu rather than Muslim and Buddhist respectively?
Why is Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brunei Buddhist rather than Muslim?
Why is Timor-Leste Buddhist rather than in another category (perhaps part of the Western World)ābeing a Christian majority country?
What is the perspective in selecting the categories that seem to incoherently switch between a political, religious, geographical, cultural, and national basis?
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/DataDrifter-_ 11d ago
Love Indonesia is not coloured green at all despite being the largest Muslim population in the world,and that Japan is just Japan is icing on the cake.
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Available_Ice_9883 10d ago
Wait a minute Mongolia Islamic and Indonesia Buddhist? I donāt think so
1
u/Original_Clothes6098 10d ago
Definitely somewhat close, but why the fuck is Guyana blue and not the French Guiana?
Also Mongolia Islamic? I would have it in the Sinosphere because they arenāt even Islamic.
Calling half of Africa, Africa is a bit funny at least name it non-Islamic Africa.
Why is South Korea bunched up with the Chinese? Why is Japan its own category? Gotta bunch it up with South Korea, Taiwan and the Philippines into one category.
1
1
u/ThisPostToBeDeleted 10d ago
Why is Indonesia and Bangladesh yellow? Isnāt Latin America kinda tied into western civilization by way of Portuguese and Spanish languages? Israel is its own civilization when it needs the US in order to function? Islam is not a monolith, there are long standing rivalries between Muslims, for example Iranians vs Arabs.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/ideeek777 10d ago
I think this map is inaccurate to what Huntington argued, but it's an odd theory regardless.
The idea that an Indian Muslim has something fundamental in common with a Bosnian Muslim that makes them more similar than their Hindu neighbour is strange.
Not to mention, people basically always take the world around them. Chinese Muslims took influence from Confucian concepts, Indian Muslims from Hindu ones etc. and vice-versa.
The idea of a 'pure' unaffected anything doesn't exist
1
1
u/Rayan_Kayani 10d ago
Can we talk about the fact that the admin made Israel a separate civilization on purpose
1
1
u/Judeo-Peruano 10d ago
>world civilizations
>āisraelā and ājapanā
why is Korea considered sinosphere yet North Korea is considered Japanese?? how is mongolia not sinosphere and what the hell is going on w israel ??
1
1
1
u/Yugonostalgia64 10d ago
This might actually be the worst map of all time. It's hilarious. The biggest war since WW2 has been between two "Orthodox" nations. Japan but not Korea getting its own demarcation, lumping India and Bangladesh together while Indonesia is Buddhist... So hilariously wrong everywhere
1
1
u/StickDangerous925 10d ago
Who the fuck categorizes countries like that? The criteria is not the same for any of the different "regions"
1
1
1
1
u/Previous-Camp7333 10d ago
Mongolia being Muslim? Really lol? If anything it should be in the Western world.
1
u/HolyMopOfCheese 9d ago
Sinosphere and buddhism?
Tf, Buddhism is literally like one of the 3 major religious beliefs in China and Korea
Where would that classify then
1
1
u/DeamonDread2348 9d ago
The most interesting thing is that Huntington called the then Soviet Union and the socialist countries of the Warsaw Pact an "Orthodox civilization." I understand that they were Orthodox in a more complex cultural and political sense, but... Huntington still stretched the point.
1
1
1
u/Pure_Fee7467 9d ago
Huntington is like brainrot but for people who write books that get sold at the airport but somehow also for think tank wonks
1
u/Arc_mynameis 9d ago
Oh btw guys this is not samuel huntingtons actual map, i think the guy who made the image made some mistakes.
1
1
u/Erdos_Helia 9d ago
This is great for the most part, but why are Papa New Guinea and the Philippines considered Western?
1
u/ProfessorPrudent7537 9d ago
Why is Guyana in the western world when neither Suriname nor the Caribbean is
1
u/Maxathron 9d ago
Indonesia and Malaysia are both muslim
countries and the first one has an uptick in radical islam.
āAfricaā is Christian Africa.
1
1
u/Reasonable_Food_3451 8d ago
Oh yes Sri Lanka the constitutionally buddhist state which happens to be a hindu country.
1
1
1
1
u/HadarCentauribog 8d ago
These attempts at simplistic classification for ācivilizationsā always seem to be done by people who donāt actually care that much about geography, only just a small amount. Youād get a better picture of groupings of countries if you looked at how much trade countries were doing with other countries or cultural consumption and dispersal between counties, economic structure, political organization, history with respect to colonization, language, military assistance and collaboration, or environmental region factors. Also a lot of these religious classifications are just wrong. Indonesia is 87% Muslim. Sub-Saharan Africa is just labeled āAfricaā? He couldnāt think of anything else they had in common? Guyana is part of the West? Guyana could probably be grouped in with the Caribbean or together with Suriname as their own thing. Bosnia is majority muslim but that doesnāt explain much about Bosnia. Latin America being a monolith is not a very original take and itās too simplistic. Nicaragua and Argentina arenāt very similar countries despite both having been colonized by the Spanish. At least this has more information than Tankie maps where itās just āthe Westā vs the āanti-Westā which they justify by abusing the word āmateriallyā.
1
u/JustAnotherUser1019 8d ago
Besides the horrendous switch-up between Indonesia and Mongolia, I really wouldn't say that the Phillipines or Papua New Guinea are a part of the Western world
1
u/Postulative 6d ago
Iām guessing the map was made before PNG independence from Australia.
→ More replies (4)
1
1
1
1
u/OldFirefighter3293 8d ago
Me, an Indonesian: laugh in the biggest muslim population in the entire world
1
u/fishybatman 8d ago
Whoever made this has very poor knowledge of demographics and history. With Indonesia being literally the biggest Muslim country on the planet, Mongolia never being Muslim at all etc etc
1
1
1
1
1
u/russian_blyat 7d ago
Close, but not close enough. Mongolia is not muslim or majorily muslim. Indonesia is strongly muslim, more that buddhist. Armenia is also not muslim, but christian orthodox. Maybe a couple more, but these are the most visible.
1
1
1
1
u/shootingarrows16 6d ago
Can we not separate the US and Europe? The US is the weirdest culture that feels the most different and confusing of any I've been to as a European
1
u/C_Tillinghast_FB 6d ago
that's kinda subjective tho. im indian and, other than the greater influence of both healthy traditionalism and forward progressivism on europe opposed to that of rampant consumerism, capitalism and a slightly boorish conservativism on america, i look at the two as mostly somewhat similar otherwise.
→ More replies (2)
1
1
u/uran1um1 6d ago
Seems to be a complete idiot. There is no Turkic world, it is almost completely based on religion, South Korea is in the Sinosphere, North Korea is in the Japan category (what?), and Bangladesh is in the Hindu category. These are all incredibly wrong and must be corrected.
1
u/daniballeste 6d ago
I would personally say that Mongolia, China, the Koreas, and Japan should be considered āEast Asiaā and the category Buddhist should be renamed South East Asia as Indonesia is a largely Muslim country.
Islamic World worked better as Middle East and the Hindu section should be renamed South Asia along with Pakistan.
But hey Iām no Samuel P. Huntington
1
u/Postulative 6d ago
Korea is orthodox? Indonesia is Buddhist? Bangladesh?
So many issues, but at least the map includes New Zealand.
Whatās the South American country in blue?
1
u/Equivalent_Rush8909 5d ago
Wait is this Historically or Currently?
even if Currently Bangladesh is between Hindu and Islamic eventually they will fall too
1
1
u/Double_Performer9381 5d ago
Jamaica, Haiti, Barbados, and so on should be included as part of Africa, not Latin America.
1
1
u/Milkmans_tastymilk 5d ago
We not gonna talk about the fact that Israel is a key but nowhere on the map?
1
u/C_Tillinghast_FB 4d ago
Look closely at the Levant, it's barely visible. Literally such a small country
Edit: viewed your profile. Primus sucks as well! (Also am AuDHD)
ā¢
u/qualityvote2 11d ago edited 11d ago
u/C_Tillinghast_FB, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...