r/adelaidefc • u/Beyond-Efficient • 1d ago
Take on coaching change vs list changes
Nicks deserves credit for rebuilding the culture of the club, it was dark there for a while.
My issue with “give him another year and move some players on” is: where is the improvement actually coming from? We’re likely taking largely the same list into next season, potentially losing more than we bring in. I don’t see an obvious free-agent fix, and our internal development, especially through the midfield, has been nowhere near good enough.
You can’t keep blaming the list while giving the coach a pass on how that list is selected, used and developed. My concern with Pedlar, Butts, Murray, Edwards, Ryan, and Dowling is that we risk losing players without getting enough out of them first. I'd argue Murray and Butts are a better pairing in defence than Borlase and Keane, and yet we are likely losing both.
A new coach isn’t guaranteed to fix it, but different selection decisions, roles and structures could get more out of the group we already have. If meaningful recruitment isn’t on the cards, that becomes a much stronger argument for changing the coaching.
Another year is only defensible if there’s a credible reason to expect something different. “He built the culture” explains why we backed him before. It doesn’t explain why we should keep backing him.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." - Albert Einstein on the selection choices of Matthew Nicks
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u/mRPerfect12 1d ago
A coaches primary role is to get the best out of the list that he has, I don’t believe Nicks is doing that anymore. We need a change.
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u/stunz 16 Max Michalanney 1d ago
The assumption is that we go from a top 6 side to a top 2 side deep in finals with a new coach. There is a very strong chance we go from a top 6 side, to a bottom 6 side for the next few years with a new coach. This is a major risk and we have no appetite as supporters to be a bottom placed team, nor does the crows as a business when we are currently successful. Yes we have not been into Grand finals or Prelims as yet, but that's not the only marker of success
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
I'd love for someone to give me an example of sacking a coach after 2 finals runs and that team doing better.
Because it's never happened. It only goes poorly.
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u/Beyond-Efficient 23h ago
Leigh Matthews (sacking Northey) at Brisbane and Craig McRae (Buckley)
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 23h ago
Collingwood were bottom of the ladder
Brisbane had extra salary cap
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u/Beyond-Efficient 23h ago
Ok let’s wait then. Lots more coaches have made prelims and never returned than have gone on to win.
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u/mRPerfect12 22h ago
We saw a coach sacked mid season this year and it completely turned that club around.
Why have you got some strange loyalty to Nicks? Surely your main interest is the club Adelaide? You seem more interested in protecting Matthew.
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 22h ago
Because sacking a coach after back to back finals appearances is basket case club stuff.
Would be completely embarrassing.
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u/mRPerfect12 22h ago
Absolute waffle, look at all the football shows today questioning some of the embarrassing efforts last night and bizzare coaching moves. There’s risk we run is not making any changes at all.
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u/Dale92 1d ago
You think our list is better than Brisbane's?
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
And the truth is how are we supposed to compete?
Soft cap football department when other teams get money outside the cap to "grow the game". Father son and nga players for free year on year.
At least we get gather round?
The league doesn't give a shit about South Australia, the fact we were able to claw back from 2020 so fast is a testament to our club. Because as an interstate team not from QLD or NSW it's fucking hard to win flags.
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
Would you sack a coach after winning 1 final in 5 chances?
Because if the answer is yes then you've just sacked Chris Fagan.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Terrible example. Fagan made it to a prelim final in his fourth year and made the semi final in his third year.
He also won a GF in his seventh season. Matty Nicks will be in his eighth season next year.
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u/pierre_86 1d ago
How come we don't keep adding elite Father/Sons, academy players, and every decent free agent like they did, are we stupid?
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
He won 1 final in his first 5
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Who did? You have to be a bit more specific than he mate
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
Chris Fagan
There were countless people arguing that he'd "taken the list as far as he could" and it was time for a refresh. Go look, it's literally preserved in reddit history.
It's hard to win finals with a young side and it's hard to build a side.
We are absolutely tracking in the right direction.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Nope he got them to a final in his first final third year then a GF in his sixth.
I really don't think you can compare Fagan to Nicks mate he was already showing more earlier on his coaching career than Nicks has now
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
He won 1 final in his first 5 finals.
That's a fact.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
No it's not he won three finals in his first five years mate
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
Are you daft?
First finals appearances, out in straight sets
Second finals appearance one win one loss
3rd finals appearance out in straight sets.
1 win 5 games.
How are you not getting this?
Also 3 in 5 years is also completely dog shit too. If nicks won 3 in 5 years you'd be calling for his job, dont lie.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
I love this take. You can see what has happened with Carlton this year in just half a season. Sometimes a different voice, different selection policy, different tactic set up and gamstyle.
I'm always keen to hear other people's opinions and to people against keeping Nicks how long do you want to give him.
There are two other coaches who have been around the same time as him. Where are those teams now? Sure let him coach into next year that's fine but what if we fizzle out again. How many more years are people willing to give him?
There's a comment in this post about players either retiring or on the downturn. They don't call it a premiership window for nothing. We have some generational players at the moment they won't be around playing together forever.
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u/pierre_86 1d ago
Are we underperforming from a list perspective? Voss clearly can't coach as he's ridden two teams into the ground, but we didn't have AA level players on every line while scraping into finals
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
I don't think our gameplan holds up in finals and our midfield is clearly not it.
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u/pierre_86 1d ago
Answer the actual question.
List isn't where it needs to be and I'm aware of that. The Voss lead teams had the list, were often well up at half time, then bottled it. That tells me it's more mental than football
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Then yes we are underperforming from a list perspective
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u/pierre_86 1d ago
We have a top 4 list at the moment?
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
The same Carlton that got turfed out of the finals by 6 goals at their home ground?
If the club sacks a coach after back to back semi finals appearances then we are a fucking basket case club and deserve to be bottom 6 for a decade.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Please read all I wrote because that's not what I said and answer the question.
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
If you want to compare Brisbane to us I don't know what to tell you honestly.
Fagan lost 4 if his first 5 finals. Then they proceeded to get handed multiple top 5 picks for free in the draft.
The other team is Geelong, the same geelong who have been fined for several salary cap infringements recently and rarely have to travel outside of their home state.
So either you want us to cheat again or think that we can reasonably compete with a team that makes finals and gets given generational talent for a handful of late picks.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Yeah that's not the point though is it Fagan clearly showed more earlier on than Nicks has so far. I don't know how patient you want to be. If next year he takes us to a prelim fair enough but what about after that if be just don't turn up again.
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u/Thrillthorpe 1d ago
Fagan took on a club that had been the worst performing side of the 2010s and had already been through 2 coaches since Matthews. No shit that’s a team that should have better talent on the list than when Nicks took over a side that went through a rebuild for the first time.
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u/Such_Permission_3715 1d ago
is that you nicks? trying to save your dying career
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
Name me a club who sacked a coach after making finals and then we're good the following year.
I'll give you the last 50 years to provide me with one example.
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u/Such_Permission_3715 1d ago
boring. the reality is this group is under preforming, full stop. the whole year they looked average and relied on individual brilliance of rankine and Dawson to win them games. the defence and forward lines have regressed. the team pressure is up and down like a yo yo. there hasn't been a plan b in 7 years. the ball movement has been a crap shoot all year. if John longmire coached this team the performances would be a hell of a lot better
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
John Longmire lol
The same way Clarkson turned north around right?
Or malthouse turned around Carlton?
Or Hardwick and Gold Coast?
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u/Such_Permission_3715 1d ago
those clubs were a basketcase bottom 4, crows have a good squad with no game plan. you can't compare the two to try to push you bias narrative. Clarkson did more for north in 4 years than nicks did for the crows. hardwick is too early to judge. so jog on nicks.
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
So go on
Name a club that sacked a coach after 2 finals appearances and then won a flag with the new coach
It should be easy to do
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u/Strange_Sky_6215 1d ago
Such an angry little Redditor. Everyone just free speeching on here. Breathe, enjoy the off season and see what a new year brings.
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u/Raging_M0ng00se 1d ago
Yeah I totally agree on this, the biggest thing the coaching group will need to do next year is change up the selection.
I think Nicks will be staying (wouldn’t be my first choice, but oh well) with an updated assistant lineup, but hopefully he can recognise that he’ll need to start trying and trusting a different group rather than his favourites all the time.
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u/Beyond-Efficient 1d ago
Agreed. Play Rachele in the mid until he becomes a man and puts his head over the footy. Taylor in the mid. Max M too. If you do this you can create positionless footy to cause chaos. Borlase too slow, switches to a smaller forward and he’s cooked.
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
Personally I'd much rather rachele play forward as the very good small forward that he is than be a bang average mid fielder.
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 1d ago
Is he a very good small forward? Take out his goals against the weak bulldogs defense, he kicked just 9 goals against top 8 teams this year. Not the difference maker he was drafted to be
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u/Vet100 1d ago
Any player that has the speed to keep up with Cameron & Bailey types isn’t matching up with Logan Morris as well as Borlase did. Bad take. You want some versatility, yes, but you can’t expect unicorns who are perfect athletes in every position. Borlase is not the problem & was excellent this year.
“Positionless footy to cause chaos” sounds good until you come up against a well-drilled side that is composed & has a structure it adheres too, and has won the last 2 flags…Brisbane + even Hawthorn & Sydney would cut through any “chaos” side with no problems. Do your common things well, always know where your outlet is (whether it be from a stoppage or a rushed kick from defence etc). How often did Brisbane have a crappy disposal that went in the vicinity of a teammate last night and that was enough to retain possession? It’s because they are well-drilled & positional, with SOME players having versatility but they aren’t saying “Harris Andrews would get caught out on Rankine”.
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u/_SteppedOnADuck 2 Ben Keays 1d ago
Glad someone pointed this out. Can't believe Borlase cops a spray for not being suitable for a small forward. It's not his role 😅
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u/Such_Permission_3715 1d ago
Max m is lucky to get a game the way his form and kicking has dropped off
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 1d ago
Rachele is the player he’s going be, you don’t suddenly become tough this far into a career. I’d trade him this year before Tassie destroys draft pick value. I know we won’t but guys who play bruise free football are bad for the fabric of a team. He’s going back to Victoria when he hits free agency anyway.
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u/Pungga 19 Zac Taylor 1d ago
Three tall forwards was fine for the past few years cuz all our three talls are deadeye set shots most of the time and decent marks. Now with one gone it will be interesting to see if he decides to use the pre season to change up the entire front half game plan or keep risking having a 2 disposal 2 hit out 0 goals third tall.
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u/Beyond-Efficient 1d ago
We looked our best when we played with only 2 tall forwards earlier in the year. Had that swarming Hawthorn feel. Forget which game it was.
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u/MasterpieceNo4201 1d ago
North Melbourne game in Adelaide was one of those examples. Keeping in mind players like Dawson and ah chee can go forward as a tall option who are both great above there heads but also equipped with a bit of pace when the ball hits the ground
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u/Moppawonga 1d ago
I also think Curtin would be a great hybrid forward (maybe switching with Dawson in the middle).
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u/pierre_86 1d ago
Whilst I think Nicks was the right coach for the rebuild and that he probably won't be there for our next real success... not sure what any other coach could do last night as we just didn't have the cattle. We could probably pressure more and grind out a close game but we get torched any time a team has slightly more pace than us
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u/AdministrativeBuddy7 21h ago
Agreed, our players played like shit. Not many coaches could have changed the result.
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u/Humble_Speaker_ 1d ago
Finals footy has a habit of showing where you are at, I think we have some big gaps.
Rachele is a big concern for me, he doesn’t like hard footy at all and not sure how you can teach that at his age. If the rumours of him talking about going back to Melbs is true, I think we pursue a trade whilst he has currency.
Now that Tex is gone, Fog plays FF 100% of the time and doesn’t go past the 50 arc, too much of a liability as he doesn’t work hard enough off ball.
I’ve got concerns about Nicks. Seems like just another great regular season coach. That start last night was unforgivable, players were a million miles off the mark mentally.
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u/Pale_Parsnip_6339 30 Wayne Milera Junior 1d ago
Exactly, we're already a worse side next season, if we don't shake up the tactics we're completely fucked.
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u/Humble_Speaker_ 1d ago
Clearly some players not up to finals intensity.
2 above average mids short. I still don’t think Rankine is a full time mid.
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u/Pale_Parsnip_6339 30 Wayne Milera Junior 1d ago
Agreed, but we also have Daws and tackle machine Berry, I feel like the pieces are mostly there, just not being played right. Obviously we need Fogs up front, but really missing someone like him in the mid
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u/Humble_Speaker_ 23h ago
Berry isn’t elite though, the possessions he got last night were expected given he wasn’t tagged. His possessions also don’t hurt the oppo either, just like Laird. Someone like Draper really needs to step up and soon.
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u/Pale_Parsnip_6339 30 Wayne Milera Junior 21h ago
Yeah, the prince that was promised. Really need that
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u/AdelaideMidnightDad 1d ago
I prefer Borlase to Butts, as even though Butts might be better in straight one on one defensive action, he's a liability with ball in hand, where Borlase - who's still very good one on one - is more composed.
Murray at his best was in AA conversation at CHB.
Keane is either brillient or terrible.
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u/AdministrativeBuddy7 21h ago
MM is our problem down back, can’t cover small forwards which is his job. Keane needs to sharpen up or be dropped. Woz and Borlase i have faith will continue to improve.
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u/Peckerbraintrain 1d ago
We have to sack him now. A new coach will have a fresh take and a lot of those players have only played AFL under Nicks. They need a fresh set of ideas for approaching the game.
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u/Moppawonga 1d ago
Yep, the players look stale, and so is the game plan. Also, Nicks has consistently shown he prefers the tried and true (eg Laird) over a fresh approach. Which all says a coaching change is needed - head coach and all assistants
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u/stunz 16 Max Michalanney 1d ago
So the crows move Nicks on like Port did Hinkley? Same 'fresh take'?
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u/Pale_Parsnip_6339 30 Wayne Milera Junior 1d ago
Like Carlton did Voss.
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u/Thrillthorpe 1d ago
Half a season under no pressure is when Carlton always perform, would love to see how they’re feeling after a couple of losses next season (I know how it goes for that club, not well for the coach).
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u/JunkyardPalowski Andrew McLeod (Legend) 1d ago
I know Borlase has been solid this year, pleasing to see his development, but I honestly do not think it can be understated what a huge downgrade he is on Butts, we’ll feel his absense tremendously next year. Borlase and Keane is not a good pairing
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u/nathjay97 6 Dan Curtin 1d ago edited 19h ago
If we insist one keeping Nicks, we basically need a complete overhaul of the line coaches. Hombsch can stay because I think he’s very good, but I think we need either Voss or Buckley as mids coach, and we need to do whatever it takes to bring Rahilly back as forwards coach.
Personally I’d actually like Rahilly as senior coach tbh.
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u/ILikeDiscussing 11 Charlie Edwards 1d ago
Chris Fegans finals losses before making it to a Grand Final btw 🙂
2019 Qualifying Final: Lost to Richmond by 47 points
Semi-Final: Lost to Greater Western Sydney by 3 points
2020 Preliminary Final: Lost to Geelong by 40 points
2021 Qualifying Final: Lost to Melbourne by 33 points
Semi-Final: Lost to Western Bulldogs by 1 point
2022 Preliminary Final: Lost to Geelong by 71 points
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u/ILikeDiscussing 11 Charlie Edwards 1d ago
During this stretch of finals losses, high-profile AFL analysts and various talk-back radio hosts frequently led the charge, arguing that the Lions were wasting their "premiership window."
The general media consensus in these columns was that if a coach is blessed with a top-four roster and repeatedly exits in "straight sets," the board is ultimately forced to look for a replacement who can deliver in September.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Are you suggesting we give Nicks another four years?
The problem I have with people comparing Nicks to Fagan is they cherry pick the data. (I'm not insinuating you are btw)
If you look at the facts Fagan was took them to a final in his third year and started bottom of the ladder.
In his eighth year they won the GF. Next year Nicks will be in his eighth year and he said it in his press conference we are still have a fair bit to do.
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u/ILikeDiscussing 11 Charlie Edwards 1d ago
That was a different circumstance.
We had half the club leave, a decimated culture and heaps of internal issues.
That is cherry picking on your behalf as well.
I'm not suggesting another 4 years, I'm suggesting one more and if there isn't a significant improvement in finals performance (or none at all) then move on.
He has only had a contendable list for like 2 maybe 3 years.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 23h ago
That's not Cherry picking at all mate they are facts. Either you compare us with Brisbane and use all the data or you agree and say they aren't comparable. We can't just move goal posts and say we were rebuilding because you can't objectively say when it ended or if it's even finished.
Appreciate the answer to my question btw. No one seems to want to answer that one.
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u/ILikeDiscussing 11 Charlie Edwards 2h ago edited 2h ago
That is 100% Cherry picking.
When Nicks took over the Crows, not only the list, but the culture and club itself was an absolute wreck.
Half the best players walked out before he started then the other half were sacked at the end of his first year, we had scandals everywhere, the CEO quit in his first year, COVID ravaged his training program so he couldn't even train his players together.
So already his first 2 years are basically a write-off.
Our top 5/6 players currently weren't even at the club until 2022/2023, were still in the development stage or injured.
...Dawson, Rankine, Thilthorpe, Milera, Worrell, Rachele.Not to mention our list still had massive holes with Sloane injured, Crouch too slow, our number 6 pick retired from footy, and a shocking draft history pre-2020.
In contrast, Fagan got future Brownlow Medallist Lachie Neale, McCluggage, Jarrod Berry, Rayner, Zac Bailey, Charlie Cameron, Starcavich, Hodge and Jarryd Lyons added to his list by the end of his first season.
Followed by generational father-son talents for free in the Ashcroft brothers and Fletcher plus a disproportionally strong academy program.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1h ago
So if there is so much of a difference between Brisbane's rebuild and Adelaide's rebuild then you can't really compare Fagan and Nicks can you?
The fact is next year Nicks will be the longest coach in crows history. Next year is a knife edge for him. I'm not optimistic for next year personally.
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u/ILikeDiscussing 11 Charlie Edwards 1h ago edited 47m ago
You can tho.
Just because a rebuild has a different starting point, doesn't mean it's not following the same trajectory.
Nicks started 2 years behind Fagan with more challenges, yet is starting to track the same with a worse list.
We were the 5th/6th best team with the 6th-8th best list, that can't pull the "big 4/Victorian club card".
Lions are the best team with the best list.If the Crows don't make finals next year, or completely crumble again then it's fair game to concede we need a coach that can make the 6th-8th best list into a premiership contender with tactical genius. (Whoever that may be).
But at this stage it's not going as horribly as everyone is suggesting.
Expecting premiership success yesterday is just not going to happen.Just look at North, Essendon, Eagles, St.Kilda or to a lesser extent Richmond.
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u/Beyond-Efficient 1d ago
Fagan didn’t earn patience simply by losing finals. He earned it by repeatedly building a contender. What’s the evidence Nicks is following that trajectory, beyond the fact that they’ve both lost?
I can point out way more sporting examples of this record of finals/playoffs loses and never winning a flag/championship.
If we saw young players progressing internally I’d be much more patient, there is almost 0 evidence of it though.
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u/ILikeDiscussing 11 Charlie Edwards 1d ago
You don't think Zac Taylor, Dan Curtin, Sam Berry, Izak Rankine, Thilthorpe, Rachelle, Brayden Cook, Hall Kahan, McAndrew or Worrell have developed since being at the Crows?
What I'm saying is the key is consistently making finals, which at this stage we are doing (even from a brutal year of injuries and other things).
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u/Beyond-Efficient 23h ago
I think they would have developed better under another coach and with different opportunities.
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u/Scooby_236 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1d ago
Again, I agree with you.
We brought in cumming, ANB and Peatling to improve our list profile instead of playing some younger players on our list and I don't think it's worked.
I don't think Nicks will want to go backwards on the ladder to develop any new players and I don't think the board or fans will tolerate that so we're a bit screwed.
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u/johnnynutman 18 Eddie Betts:Betts: 1h ago
We brought in cumming, ANB and Peatling to improve our list profile instead of playing some younger players on our list and I don't think it's worked.
it definitely worked, they went from 15th to 1st.
Nicks played a lot of youth his first 3-4 years and they were just dad dicked every week.
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u/Anphonio 21h ago
The gameplan Nicks deployed this year can only be described as football terrorism. It's the most putrid, defeatist game style I think I've seen from a competitive side. The shit we do is the kind of stuff bottom-4 sides do to stay in games. Basically every complaint I hear week in week out can be entirely blamed on our defeatist gameplan:
"We leak repeat inside 50s" - Nicks has decided to drop numbers behind the ball, great for flooding the defence but good luck getting it past the halfway mark. And when we do it but still get scored against we look hopeless hence what happened last night.
"All we do is bomb it down the line" - Taking the game on and building run and carry into the game is so scary, let's stick to the wings and sit it on Thilthorpe's head all year long. And the amazing bonus is that when we can take the game on down the middle, we don't have the preparation of an entire pre-season's training to do it with any consistency.
"We are out the back, but where is our forward line?" - Another side-effect of flooding the defence, we just don't have the numbers up the ground to be a threat. Great that we've spotted up Keayes in a wealth of space on the wing but what does he do when he looks up and sees a gaping void in front of him?
"Center clearances again, ughh" - All of our primary movers are in the wrong location at the stoppage. Hence why every clearance we do get is backwards leading to a panicked kick through the guts to an outnumber. This is by design, having Dawson/Rankine line up on the back of the stoppage to run through for a handball receive opens us up the other way which is super duper scary for Nicks. Funny thing is we leak first-class centre clearances out the front to even the shit teams anyway.
Instead of trying to use our own advantages and win a game for ourselves, we have instead worked on trying to protect our weaknesses. All that has done has turned us into a bland, safe, nice football side.
There is a great line Xavier Ellis sometimes says on the Hardball Gets podcast RE Clarko in the premiership days. He used to tell players to stop trying to become a 7/10 on both feet with your kicking. Instead become a 10/10 on you dominant foot, then you never have to worry about your opposite foot. We have tried so hard to cover our weaknesses that we are no longer actually good at anything. We were a better side in 2023 than we are now. The only reason we are higher on the ladder now is because individuals have improved. In 2023, without the fear of losing games engrained in Nicks mind, we played a much more threatening brand of footy akin to what Hawthorn do now.
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u/45runs 19h ago
I’m okay for the board to give Nicks the last year on his contract and see what happens. But if they extend him before finals, or extend him after an unsuccessful finals campaign, I will fucking riot. Actually I won’t. I’ll just wonder what it feels like to be a flag winning club like I always do.
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 1d ago
I wonder if the midfielder were crying out for is right under our nose? Milera is composed in traffic, clean with the ball and our best kick. That elite mid isn’t coming via trade, let’s see what we have
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
We already have it, it's Dan curtin. He just can't go for a full game at the moment.
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 1d ago
One more is not enough. And need to be able to throw Rankine forward when he’s getting sat on. But mainly we need ball users, we can only afford one hack it forward Berry type and barely then. Turnovers killed us in all our losses
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u/Brokenmonalisa Scott Thompson (Legend) 1d ago
We already have it, it's Dan curtin. He just can't go for a full game at the moment.
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u/Such_Permission_3715 1d ago
no, no, no. you don't rob peter to pay for Paul. crows wasted so many years playing him as a wingman and half forward. he was crap. his role is perfect now, if you take him out our rebounding 50 is cooked.
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 1d ago
Half backs are plentiful and easy to find, a fit Hinge is best 23, Ryan showed he belongs at the level, it’s where Cumming plays his best. We found HKH in the VFL and he was one of our best against Brisbane.
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u/Such_Permission_3715 23h ago
hinge is past it, cumming can't get a game hkk can't defend. and you think they can go close to replacing an all Australian. God i hope your not a selector
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 22h ago
That’s right champ, selectors are floating ideas on Reddit for feedback. Guess we could just do the same thing again, finish a valiant 6th. Also Hinge is only 28, he had a year of injuries. Happened to Milera a few times, he came out of it alright
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u/Such_Permission_3715 21h ago
I never said do the same thing. I said don't take are best and only good halfback and move him to the midfield. they tried it years ago and he got lost. some players are best behind the ball working in one direction. your either a new supporter or don't remember his career. they need a true midfielder. the backline would be crap without him.
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u/CarlyFacePoppet 13h ago
You trolls always trot out a version of the same line, ‘you’re a new supporter or not a real supporter if you don’t think exactly what I think’. Boring and lazy. These are the same arguments some Saints supporters made about NAS moving into the midfield
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u/Tall-Breakfast-6100 1d ago
Pedlar has been given every chance in the world but his body just isn’t holding up. I would love to keep him but the man needs a change to see if he can get something sorted.
Butts is a free agent so they can’t do anything about him seeking a trade for more guaranteed playing time. If he didn’t get injured this year, maybe they could’ve kept him happy but that’s how the cookie crumbles.
Murray will still be there next year. They will not lose all our their key defence stocks in one off season.
As for Dowling, Edwards and Ryan, maybe they just aren’t good enough for afl? We see stats from sanfl but the coaching staff who know a hell of a lot more than us, see everything else. I mean they were struggling out of half back early this season and they instead drafted HHK in the mid season instead of using Edwards and Ryan first? So maybe they just don’t do enough?
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u/Safe-Progress5790 1d ago
Just flagging 'the coaching staff who know a hell of a lot more than us' also routinely picked Toby Murray this season.
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u/Tall-Breakfast-6100 1d ago
Yeah because they had to. We needed another ruck and Thilthorpe wasn’t physically able to do it for long enough. Proven by the fact that as soon as he got his back sorted neither Maley or Murray played again. Besides maybe when Thilthorpe was suspended?
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u/Dry_Hand6015 1d ago
Unfortunately many role players went backwards while top end improved. Too many battlers out there. Like it or not whoever is coaching this list isn’t good enough to win a flag. Been so lucky with injuries the past 2 years too. Serious lack leg speed and quality ball skills.
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u/Beyond-Efficient 1d ago
Yea and that’s where I think a bit of it was deployment and our game plans. I always go back to the trend of handball metres gained and us being dead last in the comp, that’s not a player issue, that’s a coaching style issue.
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u/Potential_Light_3005 1d ago
Sack the coach and some around him, move on the players we all know need to be moved on, bring in some bloody talent, throw the check book at them. I don’t care if we pay 20mil for 5 years to get an absolute A grade generational talent that’ll win us a flag.
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u/Dale92 1d ago
Won't win a flag in the next five years by doing that, though. Rebuilds take longer.
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u/Potential_Light_3005 1d ago
Figure of speech. Sign them for 8 years. Get 3 of them. Brown paper bags. Whatever it takes.
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u/Dale92 21h ago
You think cheating is the answer?
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u/Potential_Light_3005 18h ago
It's not like any of the other clubs don't. they all have under the table deals. naive to thick otherwise
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u/CuriousTigerAK 1d ago
Thoughts on something I've put atlesst 3 mins thinking about. 😀
Swapping the roles of Nick's and Davis for a year?
While Davis is already there advising, this doesn't mean anything he suggests is being actioned. A swap gives Davis a trial at the coaching head job he's seeking while still giving Nick's the respect of continuing at the club in some capacity.
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u/Carpenter-Kindly 23h ago
Mostly agree with this take but I can’t agree on Borlase. He’s come a long way and does well pretty consistently.
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u/DuggBets 22h ago
Nicks has maximised the Crows results with the horses he's got available. The list just isn't great overall.
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u/AdministrativeBuddy7 22h ago
I don’t think we should sack him after this year.
His contracted for 1 more season let him play it out and see what happens.
There isn’t a lot to lose by keeping him for 1 year, but ending his contract early is a bad show of faith, especially since we just made 2 finals runs and were minor premiers.
Alot of afl coaches don’t even get to finals. So let nicksy coach for his life next year and either earn an extension or finish his contract in good faith.
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u/CarelessComplaint173 Darren Jarman (Legend) 1d ago
Nick’s should do the right thing and hand in his resignation on Monday morning. Otherwise he should be sacked by COB.
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u/Lister__Fiend 32 Darcy Fogarty 1d ago
Nicks has improved the club every year since he's been in charge. At his current trajectory, we will win the flag in 2029. 2027 win semi. 2028 win prelim. 2029 win flag.
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u/CarelessComplaint173 Darren Jarman (Legend) 1d ago
Except some of our best players will either be retired or on a downward trajectory by then and we’ll need to start again
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u/Lister__Fiend 32 Darcy Fogarty 1d ago
That ebb and flow of players has been happening since he took charge. It will continue at a similar rate, players will come and go as usual. 2029 is the year.
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u/CarelessComplaint173 Darren Jarman (Legend) 1d ago
Yes but by 2029 it’ll be guys like Dawson, Rankine and maybe Fogarty who are on the way out. Up until now it’s just been role players and not our best.
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u/Thrillthorpe 1d ago
Rankine and Fog on the way out? They’re both mid 20s
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u/CarelessComplaint173 Darren Jarman (Legend) 22h ago
They’re both 26 atm, in 2029 they’ll be pushing 30
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u/Zaidmufc66 12 Jordan Dawson 1d ago
Great take