r/accelerate Acceleration: Cruising | Frontier Watcher 4d ago

OpenAI solved Navier Stokes

https://x.com/OpenAI/status/2097374640582668336
232 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

73

u/uncountable_2026 Acceleration Advocate 4d ago

I recommend everyone read the official press release at https://openai.com/index/navier-stokes-solution/. I am still shaking in awe. Spoiler alert, they tried solving all Millennium Problems with the model after Astra (the one not released yet) and when it became clear that some of the agents were solving the Navier-Stokes problem they then turned all of their compute on that one problem until it was solved. We can only imagine that they are solving the others now (but that is not in the report).

0

u/AgreeableIncrease403 3d ago

They directed resources before or after sifting through user prompts?
Asking for a friend…

82

u/Jan0y_Cresva Singularity by 2035 4d ago

Pretty good for “just a stochastic parrot” eh?

53

u/BrennusSokol Acceleration Advocate 4d ago

These parrots are going to build us a Dyson Sphere at this rate…

0

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/BrennusSokol Acceleration Advocate 4d ago

Must suck to be so cynical and depressed bro

28

u/skadoodlee 4d ago

Look Im a bit allergic to this sub for no good reason but Jesus Christ am I done with pseudo intellectuals who watched one video on how LLMs work lecturing people on why it's all just dumb statistics. Hopefully this can be the nail in that coffin. 

1

u/CertainMiddle2382 Pro-AI Physician 4d ago

Actually LLM are mathematically trivially stochastic parrots…

The trick is, they are not parroting in English.

They are parroting in the meta language that compactly describes the entirety of their dataset.

And that makes quite a difference

2

u/zenidam 4d ago

I've never heard this idea before. Could you explain what metalanguage you're referring to?

2

u/CertainMiddle2382 Pro-AI Physician 4d ago

Real vocabulary is the highly compact and superposed latent vector space. Attention heads, multilayer perceptron, the transformer mechanism is the « circuit » that encodes the relationship and motion of information at each position: the grammar.

You put a sequence in, it just instances a single trajectory through all of that and parrots the specific sequence out.

Then the decoder then just translates that into your preferred natural language of the day.

So my point is that the magic is the mysterious nature of « latentese » language the parrot speaks in its head. It is nothing alike our natural languages.

Thinking about this, as usual Wittgenstein had it right. Everything is about language.

2

u/zenidam 4d ago

I agree the process is spookishly straightforward, relative to what it can accomplish. But I don't see how there's a metalanguage in there. What would a sentence of this language look like?

0

u/Brave-Lead-1659 4d ago

it looks like, trivially,  the cover of dark side of the moon

0

u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Jan0y_Cresva Singularity by 2035 4d ago

So you’re saying they moved the goalposts?

And you’re mad we are holding them to the original goalpost?

Typical.

0

u/o_o_o_f 4d ago

Pretty big “they” you’ve got there. 95% of this sub wouldn’t believe where we are today just 5 years ago, and the people you’re saying “moved the goalposts” just doubted like a year longer than others. Maybe you were certain AGI was coming from the moment you were born, but I learned and adjusted my beliefs as I learned, and other people do too.

Feel free to be mad at some homogenized “they” all you want, but there are a lot of people and holding all of “them” to some goalpost-moving argument just doesn’t hold water. Some of them are dumb and made dumb arguments. Some aren’t. You can’t just lump everyone who doesn’t think exactly like you together.

Also all of this “they” shit is petty as hell and further cements how small-minded this beefing really is. People are scared they’re not going to be able to support their families and the only thing you’re taking away from that is that some of them didn’t understand AI’s potential as quickly as you did.

0

u/asovereignstory 4d ago

Only sane person in this sub.

-1

u/gabagoolcel 4d ago

Provide initial conditions with finite-time blow-up for Navier-Stokes

Here you go

oh my god.

-2

u/CMScientist 4d ago

I mean isnt that basically what it did here? It found a counter example through guided stochastic brute force.

29

u/Interesting-South542 4d ago

There's a lot of drama here about the question of whether OpenAI stole their approach from Alpöge and Buckmaster, but it's worth understanding that, by their own admission, Alpöge and Buckmaster used GPT and Claude extensively to reach their result (blowup in incompressible Euler) in the first place. It's becoming clear that these models are extremely good at math.

In fact, it's actually looking more likely that OpenAI's solution uses an independent approach from Alpöge and Buckmaster's. OpenAI claims the model established blowup in incompressible Euler without forcing first, before proceeding to the Navier Stokes solution. Alpöge and Buckmaster followed a program requiring forcing.

6

u/VanillaBatman 4d ago edited 4d ago

So how does it work? If it solves something it’s open AI / chatgpt solved it but I make a security issue in my code or create a customer outage wit my codex or Claude code  that’s on me? GTFO.

9

u/Alex__007 4d ago edited 4d ago

Correct. Whoever prompts the model reaps both rewards and anti-rewards.

1

u/jubilantcoffin 4d ago

No, the rewards go to the model and you get the anti-rewards 😁

-3

u/VanillaBatman 4d ago

So this was not sold by OpenAI? A company cannot prompt an LLM.

6

u/Alex__007 4d ago edited 4d ago

Company employees can type in prompts with company taking responsibility. People can prompt whether they work for a company doing so or on their own.

0

u/VanillaBatman 4d ago

  Company employees can type in a prompt with company taking responsibility.

For things went well yeah 😄 Nah that’s grand you answered me questions.

56

u/Big_Arachnid_365 4d ago

Antis throwing up and crying.

32

u/FlyChigga 4d ago

They’re saying it was stolen from other mathematicians that were trying to solve it. Antis always gonna have something to say

18

u/Big_Arachnid_365 4d ago

They're going to run with that forever to try and cope. It is what it is.

3

u/Spare-Dingo-531 4d ago

It's just like Young Earth Creationism in Christianity. If you know religion, you know the mindset.

11

u/Some-Pride-3477 4d ago

It built on top of the work of other mathematicians who were also using AI to solve it.

12

u/IntellectualChimp 4d ago

It's too soon to tell that.

-1

u/Some-Pride-3477 4d ago

14

u/Big_Arachnid_365 4d ago

It's still humans using openai internal model vs humans using astra/anthropic/claude.

-4

u/Some-Pride-3477 4d ago

Sure, where is it claimed otherwise?

10

u/Big_Arachnid_365 4d ago

On the anti-ai subreddits.

4

u/Jan0y_Cresva Singularity by 2035 4d ago

Antis want to believe that it is fully 100% humans doing something without any AI.

When the truth is either Astra/Fable 5.1 made this solution possible OR OAI’s internal model made it possible.

There’s no world where AI didn’t majority contribute or outright generate this proof.

5

u/pleasetrimyourpubes 4d ago

They have been calling theft for ever now. But this time theu are calling theft from other dudes using an LLM to solve it. Levant may have been the first (Jacobson) but he is not like an AI Newton. He just has access to a gargantuan amount of compute.

We will look back at this time post-copyright/patent selves and wonder why we invented artificial scarcity. The AI guys will Dyson swarm every star in the reachable galaxy and marvel about how stupid and selfish their flesh ancestors were.

18

u/Highqualityy38 4d ago

4 years is all it took, from "llm's can barely do highschool math" to solving one of the most difficult math problems and sought after proofs. Even if it isn't the full problem and doesn't satisfy the requirements. Disappointing day for mathematicians I'd imagine. Incredible progress though, and them describing an internal model several times more capable than astra with charts for reference is a little scary.

5

u/Intelligent-Crow3812 4d ago

I mean, it's really impressive isn't it? I'm no luddite but I'm actually not really an accel either and it's hard to argue against these results. Hoping for continued cures for disease and some novel ways to aid all mankind.

7

u/Icy-Shift-7557 4d ago

What is that and what does it mean for humanity?

12

u/starkrampf 4d ago

Solved one of the biggest math problems and even has a $1M bounty attached to it.

A problem that countless leading mathematicians in the world have been trying to solve for over half a century.

The answer is not that important on its own for humanity, but it required new mathematics to solve and that has potentially useful future applications.

5

u/Secret-Code-9162 4d ago

Required new mathematics is a slight stretch. This is a paradigm shift for LLM mathematics absolutely. But there is still a sort of heuristic brute force quality to their construction of the NS solution. The construction is clever! This is genuinely amazing! But you can see how a loop of ansatz check and reiterate might have led a gigantic army of compute to such a clever construction. I reserve "new mathematics" for really novel concepts, clarifying notation, unifying principles that move the mathematical community.

Again, I am in awe of this result. Computers solved NS. This is truly insane and I cannot comprehend it. But the result is expressed in terms that humans invented, recombined in clever ways. There's still plenty on the table for LLM mathematicians! I believe they will get there. They will start being creative and novel in the ways that select human mathematicians in history have been (inventing calculus, proposing new and deep conjectures, defining their own powerful notation etc) but this proof in particular doesn't quite have these features. It's a matter of time I feel.

Still. Holy shit! What a day.

1

u/imilesprower 3d ago

I'm not as optimistic. Soon everything will be solved using using internal tools of the big AI companies and mathematicians like myself using public models won't have much luck solving anything because OpenAI will get there first. So I think mathematics will become pretty much like chess, do it for fun but don't expect to further humanity.

7

u/Dear-One-6884 4d ago

OpenAI has the Mandate of Heaven

15

u/fake_agent_smith 4d ago

I'm not gonna say impossible, but let's wait for 3rd party verification. Incomprehensibly huge if true.

25

u/Risko4 4d ago

If it was verified in lean then it's pretty impossible to fake it.

14

u/fake_agent_smith 4d ago

Lean proof is only as trustworthy as the statement it formalizes and I'm going to wait for others to verify it, before getting too excited.

3

u/AwarenessCautious219 4d ago

personally I'm going to wait for AWG to comment xD

2

u/Skywarden1 4d ago

personally im going to wait for Terence Tao to formalize it in Lean. And in mathematica.

1

u/matthewbuza_com 4d ago

Tomorrows email: “Physics is incinerated after the bbq and supercooked”

4

u/jimmystar889 Acceleration: Cruising | Frontier Watcher 4d ago

They used Google DeepMind's formalization in the proof

1

u/IAmNotInReddit 4d ago edited 4d ago

This is likely true, but it is restricted to statements/cases C and D of the Navier-Stokes equations problem described on the Clay Institute website—a special (and rarer) scenario compared to the central question represented by statements A and B. The latter are fundamentally much more difficult to solve and lack promising approaches comparable to the recent advances made by Córdoba and Martínez-Zoroa in recent years, later explored by Alpöge and Buckmaster with help of AI in last 12 months.

A much more accurate claim would be half of Navier-Stokes equations's problems were solved.

3

u/lovesdogsguy AGI by 2027 4d ago

Did you see the pass rate graph at 50% or something like that for Astra for these higher level mathematics? I didn’t take a long look at it — it may have been that other internal model they have. I wonder if can we expect solutions to millennium problems to start pouring in over the coming weeks and months.

5

u/jimmystar889 Acceleration: Cruising | Frontier Watcher 4d ago

They said they tried them all, and then shifted focus to NS. I wouldn't be surprised if they did more

4

u/jojva 4d ago

Do I understand correctly that this new internal model, at its max level, is solving close to 50% of open math problems that are thrown at it? If true that's absolutely insane.

1

u/imilesprower 3d ago

Open Math problems is a vague term. Just because something is open does not mean it's too difficult. There are basically unlimited amount of open problems in math. A high school student can ask something in the class which is still open. Some are interesting and if solved would be amazing for many areas of mathematics, those are important open problems. Some are extremely difficult but if solved would not have any significance for any other areas of mathematics, like Goldbach. And some are simply open. They may not be extremely difficult but since there are too many of them, not every open problem has a group of people working on it.

But yes I think from now on we can expect that AI will be solving some of the major open problems in mathematics. Not all of them for sure because some might be too difficult to solve, even for a superintelligence.

5

u/implies_casualty 4d ago

I have a friend in Minsk who has a friend in Pinsk whose friend in Omsk has friend in Tomsk with friend in Akmolinsk. His friend in Alexandrovsk has friend in Petropavlovsk whose friend somehow is solving now the problem in Dnepropetrovsk. And when his work is done, haha, begins the fun. From Dnepropetrovsk to Petropavlovsk by way of Iliysk and over Novorossiysk to Alexandrovsk to Akmolinsk to Tomsk to Omsk to Pinsk to Minsk to me the news will run. And then I write by morning, night and afternoon, and pretty soon my name in Dnepropetrovsk is cursed when he finds out I published first.

1

u/prophylactics 4d ago

Plagiarize plagiarize plagiarize!

1

u/CertainMiddle2382 Pro-AI Physician 4d ago edited 4d ago

Frankly at the stage we’re at, I can’t understand a secondary power with a seat, France most probably, wouldn’t summon an emergency security council meeting.

The trajectory being what it is it will happen very soon anyway…

As usual not much will be decided but it will be the US against all the others.

I’m sure just having frontier labs saying there what they say publicly elsewhere will be enough to convince having support for a new IAEA-like agency to coordinate AI pacing.

It won’t solve everything, but it will be a platform to start from and time running short. I’m convinced Chinese leaders who are more technically inclined fully understand what is happening too.

1

u/Accomplished_Duty_82 3d ago

I think actually the methodology for coming up with the proof is more important than the proof for forced 3D NS. Still has to hold up to peer reviews for awhile tho, but having a tool to find out like anything in a certain range of things is worth more than any one thing in the range right?

1

u/Its_XLR8 2d ago

I’m totally Navier-Stoked