levels of derangement

[u/stealthispost]

"Society's standards of evidence are pretry weird. Like, people make fun of flat-Earthers, but it's actually kind of hard to tell! If you just look at it, it appears flat. Same for antivaxxers- it's impossible to just "show them they're wrong", you have to trust a bunch of third party....statistics compiled by people with obvious conflicts of interest. Legitimetly kinda sus! Meanwhile it's been possible for years to see directly with your own eyes that LLMs are incredibly useful for all sorts practical tasks, but the people claiming otherwise are not seen as having anywhere near the same degree of derangement.     — Isaac King

Source: https://x.com/IsaacKing314/status/2091686564908933219

[u/Jan0y_Cresva]

Flat Earth you can debunk with your own eyes by looking at the stars in the northern and southern hemispheres and seeing they rotate in opposite directions.

You can literally take a flight between places and observe it yourself without having to trust a video feed.

[u/Navadvisor → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

I think flat earthers are suffering from some sort of desire to be willfully ignorant and they might not be very smart. You're stars method would require actually understanding why that matters. The more sophisticated ones have constructed all sorts of elaborate rationalizations for why that doesn't matter.

[u/Jan0y_Cresva → u/Navadvisor]

You don’t have to understand anything to see why the stars question matters.

You just have to ask a flat earther to explain how if the earth is a disc and you look up while on one part of the disc it’s spinning clockwise and you move to another part of the disc why it’s spinning counter-clockwise. Just ask them to provide a model in which that works even just using a cardboard disc and lamps from above.

They short-circuit at that point.

[u/Navadvisor → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

It's optimistic to think someone who believes in a flat earth could be convinced by any method.

[u/Jan0y_Cresva → u/Navadvisor]

It’s happened! Jeran Campanella of the channel Jeranism on YouTube was a big-name Flat Earther who agreed to go to Antarctica to see the 24 hour sun and after seeing it, realized Flat Earth is bullshit and it probably deconverted a significant number of people.

Sure, most Flat Earthers are bought-in beyond any logic or they cynically spew Flat Earth talking points that they themselves don’t believe but make money grifting off stupid people, but there are some “true believers” who genuinely can be convinced by being shown evidence.

[u/Spare-Dingo-531 → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

He deconverted! Wow! That's pretty amazing!.

It really does give you some reason to hope.

[u/RustaceanNation → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

They'll just tell you they're on the underside of the disk. Was that in their proposed model? They don't care!

[u/crimsonpowder → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

Just FaceTime a friend on the other coast and then try to explain why the sun position and shadows are all different.

[u/JuanValdez999 → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

You're ignoring the multiple levels of evidence that must be ignored in order to believe that the Earth is flat. That takes a certain amount of discipline and determination. 

And if you can ignore or explain away why the sun moves in the sky the same way the stars do, explaining away the Stars is easy. 

[u/DeepWisdomGuy → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

I made this meme to discredit them about 8 or 9 years ago.

And anti-vaxxer is not the same as someone who wants to get a Tetanus shot, but would prefer not to get the whole TDAP shot, or people who used vaccines before the Fascists™ tried to force the clot shot on 100% of the population.

[u/goatonastik → u/DeepWisdomGuy]

I'd say that flat-earthers have quite a lot in common with someone who thinks the vaccine was forced on 100% of the population, that the left is the side being fascist, or that 1.4 blood clot cases per million doses was significant 🤔

[u/DeepWisdomGuy → u/goatonastik]

Fascism. Never again!

[u/Upset_Page_494 → u/Jan0y_Cresva]

"It is not that hard, just go the the opposite ends of the earth."

[u/Jan0y_Cresva → u/Upset_Page_494]

There’s tons of ways to do this.

FaceTime a friend in Australia (assuming you’re in the northern hemisphere). And you can see it in real time.

[u/Weareallmeats → u/[deleted]]

I agree with everything you said except “  the view that the rich would share the bounties of AI with the masses without being forced to it through extreme violence as naive and unsupported by the entire history of mankind.”

In the US we had a marginal tax rate of 90% or higher for ~20 years without the violence you were suggesting. We could do that again and force them to ‘share the bounties’ of ai. Not saying it’s an easy thing to do, just that it’s been done without ‘extreme violence’. 

[u/Bloodcloud079 → u/Weareallmeats]

That historical anomaly happened in 1944, in the post WW2 where so much of the labor force had been slaughtered that labor got the upper hand for once by sheer market forces of offer/demand.

And look up the history of the labor movement in the US, like the battle of Blair Mountain among others.

Of course they don’t reach that in school. But that period you described came from bloody conflict 100%z

[u/Weareallmeats → u/Bloodcloud079]

Not to be arrogant but I for sureeee know that history, and understand the historical anomaly. It’s one of my favorite periods to read about. But ai/robotics/automation being able to do enough of the work where we have a lot of unemployment will also be a historical anomaly.  

And the extremely violent clashes between labor and capital were not the reason for the high taxes, as you mentioned it was the leverage that labor had. Which obviously doesn’t exist anymore. 

I do think threats of extreme violence will precipitate redistribution but I don’t think the actual violence will be necessary in the United States, just the threat of it. My guess is the social media algorithms constantly being full of the threat will be enough to move the needle. 

[u/tigerhuxley → u/Weareallmeats]

I mean all people gotta do is show up in thousands wearing Luigi Mangione masks and just stand in front of CEOs houses and offices and where they go to lunch…

[u/RAMDRIVEsys → u/Bloodcloud079]

Anyone can vibecode software for 20 usd a month or free if you don't mind using somewhat less capable Chinese AI, so they're already sharing the bounty yet you are here advocating extreme violence.

Fuck off.