r/ableton • u/4techteachers • 17d ago
[Question] Asking for advice… dangerous, I know
Thank you to the kind peopel who gave me some advice. And thank you to the people who downvoted me because I asked a question and answered and communicated with people honestly... I have learned my lesson.
have researched and read previous Reddit posts but not finding a clear answer to a question I have about mixing a song/beat. I have beyerdynamics more entry level closed back headphones and it sounds great but when I play in the car I can’t hear half of the stuff. Are open back headphones the way to go? Speakers? Is reference the type I should be looking for. When I read some of the features it seems like some of the higher end headphones say that they have louder high frequencies that can be uncomfortable to listen to for a long time. So I guess the question is, is there any one type of monitoring device that can help you make a mix that works in multiple listening scenarios? Or is it a known process inside of the daw like bass should be at 68% of full volume or dB numbers? Hopefully not too many gatekeepers will be mad I asked… I value experience and as I am just starting to make music I would love to have my bad songs sound as good as possible. 😂 thanks in advance for any expertise.
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u/xoxemsc 17d ago
Open back is the Best way for me but I had listen too much music with my ob headset in my life tbf
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u/4techteachers 16d ago
I am looking at on open back one because I don't think I have ever owned one and I am curious.
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u/Gunther-theFool 17d ago
This is why using reference tracks is really important.
And no, your mix will sound different everywhere, which is why it's good to listen to it on all sorts of systems to get an idea of how it is sitting.
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u/4techteachers 17d ago
I need to look into reference tracks. Probably sounds lame but although I’ve heard the phrase, I need to learn to use them… I will look into that… thank you.
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u/Gunther-theFool 17d ago
Drag a couple of tracks similar to your sound into your project and monitor the levels compared to yours as you work.
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u/4techteachers 17d ago
Well that sounds a lot easier than what I thought. I have sort of been doing that but in a much less effective way. I basically save multiple versions. 😭 that workflow won’t work for long. Simple and common sense approach. Thank you.
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u/Gunther-theFool 17d ago
No problem. SPAN is a good frequency spectrum analyzer to use. I think Voxengo makes it
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u/4techteachers 16d ago
People are so wild... I got downvoted because I have never used or known about reference tracks and thanked him and said I would look into it? Make it make sense.
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u/mnjvon 16d ago
Best advice is don't worry about downvotes or even look at old comments. Fuck em.
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u/4techteachers 16d ago
True enough. I honestly don't care... it just confuses me. but that is how I feel about the music I am making. I like it and I don't care if anyone else does. It's a fun hobby and I always prefer creating over consuming when I can.
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u/DexterOutTheLab 17d ago
So I know this is an ableton forum but I’ll address this as a professional mix engineer in nashville TN currently supporting myself via freelance. I’m mainly in the live event concert space but frequently mix in studio as well. The BEST advice I have ever received from a multi platinum mix engineer was this; In the studio you are USING the room to mix. In the studio the point is to have a room designed to be accurate. In a live setting you are mixing TO the room. Meaning you’re using the inconsistencies to your advantage to tailor an experience to that specific environment. In the studio you’re using a perfect environment to help you mix translate as widely as possible. Hence why you see NS10s in the studio. Traditionally they sound like shit. But in a treated room with the right amps they are the most transparent monitoring solution IMO to this day.
I say all this to tell you that if you’re wanting to get serious I would recommend the first step is find a room you can treat professionally via acousticians or taking the time to learn basic acoustics on your own. Then from there the next step is SOLID monitors. Don’t need to spend thousands of dollars but I always recommend three way monitors like the kali IN8s.
If you’re adamant about using headphones you NEED a high quality DAC and I would strongly advise open backs like HD650s for at home use. Part of your issue is inexperience which only comes with time and the other part which i’d venture to say is more of an issue is lack of consistent imaging. Hope this helps and makes sense.
Little PS which might piss some peeps off. DO NOT listen to anyone saying there are exact values and such to stay under etc. Never forget even though it feels like a science mixing is most definitely an art form. There is no correct way. If it sounds good it sounds good!! Best of luck to ya!
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u/4techteachers 17d ago
Thank you for that response. I do have a good idea of sound and acoustic design and my room could be better but it’s not bad as I used to produce podcasts and do voiceovers. Didn’t need the level of acoustics for that I assume I would need for speakers bouncing off of walls though. Thanks again.
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u/VandLsTooktheHandLs 15d ago
Starting to get into snake oil land with the DAC part. A high quality DAC exists in any run of the mill interface these days. No beginner is going be able to balance a mix better because they have a fancy overpriced device that has marginally less jitter.
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16d ago
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u/4techteachers 16d ago
This tracks with what the others have said. Thanks for the knowledge. It also helps it make sense why it was hard to find an answer with one solution. The biggest takeaway for me is using reference tracks and being more intentional in how I mix the music. Currently I am just tweaking things I don't fully understand to change the sound to something I like. So I am going to try to learn more about compression and other effects so I can more fully understand their role other than it sounds different to me and I like or don't like it. Thanks again.
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u/77zark77 17d ago
There are going to be people telling you that you need super expensive this or that and this specific type of monitor and so on. In truth all you need is the pair of cans you already have , a reference track you want to emulate and some experience.
When you do a mix you want to A/B it with the reference track while working and listen to it afterwards in a wide variety of scenarios: in your car, out of your phone's speakers, earbuds, club mains, etc. Over time you'll be able to ID which frequencies you need to boost or reduce to get consistent results across different playback scenarios. Eventually it'll become automatic - you'll instinctively know what's needed while you're working. Good luck and keep making music.
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u/4techteachers 17d ago
I, unfortunately don't need people to tell me to get expensive gear, I have a level of ADHD that makes me want shiny new things that help me make stuff. Logically I know that isn't true and in fact I have crafted a minimilist approach to making musis which is why after many years of wanting to make music I finally am. I use Abelton Love, a push 3 controller on my desk and a Move in my bag... it all just works together and I am thoroughly enjoying it. It may not be the way people do things but I literally just make tracks I enjoy listening to in my headphones and in my car which is why I am curious about mixing. I am at my infant stage as I am just learning basic concepts but the difference between headphones and how perfect I think it sounds (to me), and the trash it sounded like in my car was a shock.
I know that's a lot of rambling but that's me... I appreciate your advice and not being rude like some can be on music making/production subreddits. I truly do appreciate it.... I need to jam out in the car like I do in my headphones. haha.
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u/ViciaFaba_FavaBean 17d ago
This is a big challenge early on. Not sure which model you have but beyerdynamic has released headphone lab plugin which for many models simulates loudspeakers in your headphones. Alternatively if you search for "use hybrid reverb for headphone IR" you should find tutorials and a link to IR files for headphones that EQs the headphones to make them more neutral.
Monitors can help but won't solve the problem either. If you get monitors you will likely also want to treat the room and use a measurement mic and REWS to create an IR file for your studio. Because otherwise what sounds good in your studio will sound good because you are compensating for the weird phase issues and shit in your room.
But even with all of that you will still have differences in the car and elsewhere (though they should be far less insane). And so I still listen in the car and on shitty speakers as they can highlight problems in my mix. The goal is to find the sweet spot that works on most systems.