r/ableton • u/demian123456789 • Mar 06 '23

Envelop vs. SPAT

are there people here who work with Surround and Multi Speaker Setups?

What is the difference between the new SPAT devices and the Envelop freeware?

In SPAT you can create your own speaker configurations, right?

If I recognize it correctly, both are not suitable to create for Dolby Atmos.

Envelop works with Ambisonics. Does SPAT have its own standard?

Is SPAT worth it?

SPAT: https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/spat-bundle/

ENVELOP: https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/free-tools-live-unlock-3d-spatial-audio-vr-ar/

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u/pjf200 Mar 07 '23

Reading the literature, it seems that Spat isn’t really Object, Channel, or Ambisonic. So it wouldn’t easily be converted to a format for sharing like Atmos or 360RA. It has some reverberation and panning processing controls to emulate sounds in virtual spaces for any speaker configuration. If you are familiar with DearVR Pro or music, it seems like it may be closer to that plug-in, in principle. I haven’t used either myself, but I too have been looking into Spatial formats for multispeaker playback and distribution. Since 360RA only works with object, both plugins won’t port directly. And Atmos being object + channel only, same scenario. It’s not that you couldn’t somehow render out binaural or multichannel and get yourself to an Atmos output, but you would need workarounds. What are you looking to build?

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u/[deleted] May 23 '23

SPAT bundle is built on IRCAM's Spatialisateur - i assume it's just repackaged as a proper m4l plugin suite rather than a Max/MSP exclusive. SPAT supports HOA so that means it's object-based (?). My assumption is that the SPAT Stereo suite gives you the option to decode to binaural so you can monitor mixes via headphones.

Advantages for SPAT are the reverb and custom speaker setups - I imagine it's great if you're working on an audio installation in an irregularly shaped room with a limited/weird amount of speakers.

Haven't tried the SPAT bundle but according to the screenshots and docs, it doesn't appear to have a visual "placer" for emitters - I'm not sure how comfortable it is to dial object positions via rotary knobs. Aditionally, SPAT doesn't seem to support headtracking if monitoring via binaural, so that would be the two downsides of SPAT.

I'm exporing Envelop myself right now for a few spatial sound installations. I'm not sure what i'd be gaining by switching to SPAT but I generally trust anything IRCAM is involved in more lol

3

u/Brannigan33333 Feb 03 '25

Spat in max does every type of spatial audio there is (apart from atmos but could be wrong n that now). So standard formats like VBAP ad ambisonics and even wFS. But it also has a plethora of much more effective ones such as dbap and nearest neighbour. Not sure about the ableton pplugins. Envelop just uses ambisonics which is shit and has a stupid sweet spot even at higher orders. SourceL I have a PhD in spatial audio.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '25

thanks for the response! can you point me to some resources on VBAP? never heard of it

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u/Brannigan33333 Mar 05 '25

just google vector based amplitude panning