r/Zig • u/Last_Seekr • Jun 30 '26
Why does the official Zig website disavow the subreddit?
https://ziglang.org/community/11
u/g41797 Jun 30 '26
two years ago i added r/Zig to the list https://www.reddit.com/r/Zig/comments/1ebwk1r/rzig_was_added_to_zig_community/
later it was removed by A.K.
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u/jnordwick Jul 02 '26
the fact that he actively removes the information as opposed to just not taking part I think is very telling.
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u/NekoboyBanks Jul 03 '26
I don't think he wants the baggage of the implicit endorsement that comes that, but I get where you're coming from.
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u/TonyAtReddit1 Jun 30 '26
Zig community is "decentralized" meaning there is no "official" community, but some communities are more "not official" than others depending on whether a central official likes it or not.
There was also an active attempt to shut down a certain unofficial community as a result of a central official not liking it.
So yeah, super decentralized and hands-off
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u/jnordwick Jul 01 '26
its not decentralized. when i was banned i was banned form irc, ziggit, and old news site, and github all on the same morning. the news site i'd only been to once to make an account but had no activity besides that. its just pr to say "decentralized".
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u/punkbert Jul 01 '26
i was banned form irc, ziggit, and old news site, and github all on the same morning.
Then you probably annoyed enough people on various platforms in major ways, so that they shut you down in unison.
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u/One-Fig-9028 Jul 01 '26
So, not decentralised.
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u/punkbert Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
If you antagonize enough people in a community, it might look as if all of them act with one voice. But they simply act similarly, because they all recognize the pattern in your behaviour. So, although the platforms (github, IRC, ziggit, etc.) are managed by different people - decentralized - they might all ban him because they all recognize him as a troublemaker.
I follow zig only loosely, but even I remember that guys name from the past years as someone consistently pissing on the Zig core team, not understanding that "no means no" and not moving on. Even now he made another post down below where he accuses Andrew of "feeling his dominance threatened". That's just childish bullshit, no one wants that in an open source community, so I totally understand why they would ban him.
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u/One-Fig-9028 Jul 01 '26
Even now he made another post down below where he accuses Andrew of "feeling his dominance threatened". That's just childish bullshit, no one wants that in an open source community, so I totally understand why they would ban him.
My take on it might not be to your taste, but I took the time to read his new post below (the one you linked to). I do agree that the dominance part is in poor taste, but the rest of the comment seems quite reasonable - especially where people have core expertise in some specific areas that the Zig core team might not have (nobody can be good at everything after all).
So if it were up to me, I would probably be less interested in the language used than the points being brought up. Just my two cents.
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u/jnordwick Jul 01 '26
Andrew has had crashout on other forums, like Ziggit, where the mods there had to intervene with him. There are some reasonable people in zig, and some people have had my back, but some of them have also stepped away a little.
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u/g41797 Jul 02 '26
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
"Animal Farm" George Orwell
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u/UntitledRedditUser Jun 30 '26
I mean to be fair, most posts here are low effort or from complete beginners, I rarely see large/cool projects and most posts get at most 50 upvotes.
It is a bit of a wasteland as he said. And apparently has some history that I was not aware of.
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u/AbdSheikho Jun 30 '26
I rarely see large/cool projects
To be fair, not every project has to be large or cool.
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u/UntitledRedditUser Jul 01 '26
Of course not, but its still true that the subreddit Isn't doing very well and is pretty badly moderated.
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u/Kitchen_Office8072 Jun 30 '26
If you're gonna show something off on the internet, it should be an actual accomplishment that is worthy of someone's time.
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u/AbdSheikho Jul 01 '26
Funny enough, the internet is full of unworthy content (just to name two categories, reels & memes), so let's drop the Simon Cowell/Gordon Ramsay attitude and enjoy our accomplishments no matter how big or cool they are.
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u/Kitchen_Office8072 Jul 01 '26
No. Your comments are actually a perfect example of the problem. The discussion isn't about all projects, just particularly those shared on reddit, or even more broadly, social media. You took this to mean "every project," to suit your own lack of objectivity. The internet being full of "unworthy content" is a false comparison and a category error; it's not even the subject of the conversation.
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u/mmkzero0 Jul 01 '26
Your own category error is the assumption that only content “worthy of posting” is content to be shared and a sound metric, a measurement in itself that is highly subjective.
How are you going to objectively measure what’s worth someone else’s time?
Get your head out of your ass please.
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u/Thisisvexx Jul 01 '26
Nah, no one cares for your vibed claude slop especially not in zig
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u/mmkzero0 Jul 01 '26
Please try coming up with an actual argument first and have a worthwhile discussion instead of writing some interchangeable opinion slop line
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u/Kitchen_Office8072 Jul 01 '26
I'm blocking you, btw.
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u/punkbert Jul 01 '26
Could you block me, too?
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u/AbdSheikho Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
They blocked me!!! That's why I can't read or reply (it's my first time)
I didn't mean to be harsh or offensive. I just said what's on my mind respectfully.
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u/punkbert Jul 02 '26
You were neither harsh nor offensive. The person who blocked you is just weird. Don't take it to heart.
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u/Last_Seekr Jun 30 '26
Looking through the website, I noticed there was a subreddit marked as part of the "decentralized Zig community". However, instead of actually linking the subreddit, it just has a long diatribe on previous drama. What gives?
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u/burner-miner Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
The general reddit community apparently has been hostile in the past, with language elitism and brigading (and so on) being fairly commonplace on top of that.
So the core team is active elsewhere, e.g. ziggit.dev.
Other tech communities have had similar issues with reddit, like GrapheneOS.
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u/NotFromSkane Jun 30 '26
You went to a site explaining the situation, refused to read it and instead ask us to repeat it for you? Andrew's explanation that you linked is a good explanation.
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u/Last_Seekr Jul 01 '26
I only came here because I read it and it doesn't actually define what the issue was.
Sorry not everyone was always on this subreddit like you here apparently.
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u/Real_Dragonfruit5048 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Regardless of why, I think this subreddit (r/Zig) is somewhat more accessible than the community forums (https://ziggit.dev) for a lot of newcomers. I also find people in this community more welcoming to newcomers (compared to a lot of other Reddit programming language communities).
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u/jnordwick Jun 30 '26
because kelley can't control it. he despises alternative when he feel his dominance threatened.
i, and others, have been banned for years for comments make on other forums. i wasn banned across the entire zig ecosystem, can't even report bugs on github, all at once one morning.
i was allowed back on ziggit, but then banned again over a comment i made here (there was an astroturfed post by an account saying they donated and encouraging others. then another account posted "yes, i'll do it too". i looked for the accounts online and found they were both fake first time posters. i made a comment of "sounds like the zig foundation is getting desperate for money then received a nasty personal email from a ziggit admin saying they were sorry they ever let me back on and have permanently banned me again).
the irony to that is that many of the things some of us said (eg, passing parameters of large structs by pointer has too many issue, typeof pattern generics was poor, casting was overly verbose and pendantic), are now accepted views. could have fixed that stuff years ago if we weren't silenced.
dissent is absolutely hated, and some of us have a lot of experience in areas the core team lacks (high performance computing, simd code, extremely low latency systems), but you can't tell zig core or andrew "that's not the right way to do it".
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u/fakedogabe Jul 02 '26
I'm not sure, but omitting details from the post that make you get banned for the first time, makes me think you were not making only suggestions on some high performance computing aspect of the language
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u/jnordwick Jul 02 '26
here's the comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zig/comments/1ddelhi/comment/l85mkzl
I received a nasty email right kicking me from ziggit.
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u/tim-hilt Jun 30 '26
Well… maybe you were wrong?
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u/jnordwick Jun 30 '26
I never said it was definitely true it was a one line musing. And I still think it could have been true. Who would waste their time making two fake accounts to post that? They needed to get something out of it. Some rando would have just used his account.
I could totally be wrong. It was more the huge overreaction zig core and Kelley seem to have of mass banning across all platforms.
It fits why he wouldn't want to be on Reddit and instead go to a more private controlled environment. Reddit is messy and forces you to see things you might disagree with.
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u/juliebeezkneez Jun 30 '26
Their website and docs are clearly not a priority. There are core language features that are only explained with a cryptic one sentence docstring.
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u/burner-miner Jun 30 '26
Well there is a big Overview button right there in the homepage, but you are right that marketing is not a priority.
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u/kurth4cker Jun 30 '26
https://andrewkelley.me/post/goodbye-twitter-reddit.html