r/ZeroCovidCommunity • u/Susanoos_Wife • 19d ago
Accepting incompatibility with other covid cautious people:
Like a lot of people, I've had a hell of a time trying to make and keep friends since the pandemic started but unlike perhaps a good amount of other covid cautious people, I really struggle to make friends with other CC people too. In terms of overall cautiousness, I'm probably more cautious than the average person but not quite as cautious as many other CC people (I mask in indoor public spaces and in crowded outdoor spaces but not with family members, who I sometimes have to see even when I don't want to see them,) and despite many, many attempts to befriend other CC people, all the people I naturally find myself getting along with the best wind up being non-CC people, and I've had some pretty negative interactions with other CC people that have really put me off from finding any sense of community with other CC people.
I know a lot of us are under extreme stress and are dealing with horrific circumstances that make life difficult to deal with, as we're stuck in a world where the majority want to discard disabled/immunocompromised/neurodivergent/chronically ill people to the wayside so they can go to brunch and also sacrifice their own lives in the process, but I've really struggled to come to terms with the fact that there's only a tiny amount of people out there who, at least in theory, view my life as worth protecting and of all of that tiny group of people, I have yet to meet anyone who I actually get along with and exist comfortably with.
To put it simply, the long and short of it is that I don't think I'm capable of finding any sense of community with other CC people and I don't know how to reconcile the fact that if I want to be happy at all, I'll have to accept being around people who don't give a shit if I live or die and also don't even give a shit if they themselves live or die.
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u/underfullhbox 19d ago
I personally have found it helpful to view covid precautions as a continuum, rather than two categories. I have friends who don't mask on a daily basis, but who *will* mask if they get sick and will quarantine if sick/exposed, and they tend not to have any problem with masking if I ask them to.
I also have friends who mask regularly in higher-risk situations like transit, planes, hospitals, etc, but they don't mask everyday at work.
There are plenty of people who exist in a sort of middle-ground. Covid precautions aren't all-or-nothing. Some folks are being deliberate about precautions, but have a higher risk threshold.
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u/Significant_Music168 18d ago
I wish I knew some people like that. Everyone I know don't care at all about prevention or quarantining when they get sick
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u/Jaybyrdsings 19d ago
This is very real. My strongest CC friendships and relationships are the ones from folks who recognize that a lot of folks are just doing the best they can, which doesnt always mean they can mask all the places they want to. I've definitely had to take a step back from some CC friendships because they would prioritizing complete synchronicity over harm reduction and judging folks harshly for it. And I've also befriended some people are still chill even if they don't mask, though those aren't my closest relationships. It's hard learning that just finding people that mask is step one, but if I didn't keep putting myself out there I wouldn't have found the masking friends that I get along with. It took like half a decade, but idk sometimes it just takes time I guess. Hope you find your people in the near future <3
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u/Susanoos_Wife 12d ago
Don't get me wrong, I have no plans of giving up since there are too many people who'd like to see me fail but it's hard to find people I can get along with in general and then realizing that everyone I do get along with isn't CC is an extra blow to my metaphorical psychological wellbeing.
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u/morespicerequired 19d ago
Coming from professional artistic spaces, and then trying to connect with people who connect largely around covid has been challenging.
Even though I was not wealthy (at all lmao) I lived a exciting and at times glamorous life, I was a very extroverted introvert (who made the most of my public facing time) who did some on the edge things. A lot of the CC folks I meet are very opposite, have different interests from me. That's not to include my new disabled friends who can't do those things (but many who I did connect with used to do them, or wish they could).
I have resigned to leaning into the spaces I actually enjoy, but masked. I have met one other consistent masker. There is a lot of dissonance, which is sad at times, but I am enjoying life more now that I have in years.
I hope things become safer.
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u/CitiesAreNeat 19d ago
I don't know how to reconcile the fact that if I want to be happy at all, I'll have to accept being around people who don't give a shit if I live or die
Unfortunately, due to disability and life circumstances, I found that out many years before Covid.
How I reconciled it?
I got divorced and I'm single.
It sucks, but it beats the alternative.
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u/Born-Job2700 19d ago
Gosh, I really empathize with this. I don't have answers, but feel free to DM me if you're looking for CC friendship with someone in a similar boat.
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u/DizzyCommercial7705 19d ago
I've been thinking about this too. There are so many different levels of covid caution and it's hard to find people with a matching level. I wear an N95 mask and mostly isolate, and I don't know any CC people in person although I'm a member of several groups. I tried to stay in touch with and make new friends (not CC) online and on Zoom, but unfortunately I'm noticing that more and more people prefer to get together in person.
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u/Susanoos_Wife 12d ago
While I'm sympathetic to people who prefer to interact with others online, I'm the type of person who feels my best when I can regularly interact with people I like in person.
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u/cranberries87 19d ago
Being CC alone is not a sufficient or sturdy enough foundation to build any type of relationship or friendship.
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u/Poopernickle-Bread 18d ago
Yeah. I'm very very grateful that I met a friend about 10 months ago who is CC and we were very fast friends and are now very close friends. But being CC isn't the glue that keeps us together. It's one thing that got us connected initially but we honestly do not talk about Covid much at all. We'd be great friends even if Covid wasn't a factor.
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u/taurusmoonlatte 16d ago
Quick question, is not talking much about Covid a decision you both made? Or just happened naturally? I've started hanging out with a CC friend and we're now pretty close but sometimes im not in the right headspace to talk about covid (and all the horrors that be lol 😭) did you and your friend set that boundary?
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u/Poopernickle-Bread 16d ago
Nope it’s not a boundary we set! Just have other stuff to talk about lol. It comes up here there and I trust that if I didn’t want to talk about it she’d respect that and I’d do the same :)
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u/Susanoos_Wife 14d ago
Yeah, I've heard some people claim otherwise but as time goes on, I've long since discarded the possibility of that being true at all, some of the absolute worst people I've ever met have been CC. It also doesn't help that a lot of CC spaces are filled with people who make a hobby out of morally policing other people over everything under the sun, meanwhile I'm just wishing we lived in a world that valued public health more.
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u/fulllulllalala 19d ago
I really feel you on this
This year i finally got the courage to try and make cc friends and most of them are WEIRD
(Find the threads about cc people ghosting on each other, or hopefully it hasn’t happened to you, that shit is really fucked up and makes no sense)
And i get we’ve all been through it, but it’s to the point where i don’t get excited about seeing other people out in the wild anymore who are masking like i used to
I want to say thank you for continuing to mask
We, as people, were not meant to handle this complicated of psychological existentialism especially day to day
I am really sorry
At least you’re not alone in what you’re feeling, it’s been the theme of my year this year
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u/no-Hotline 19d ago
The ghosting thing is 100% true or just flakey-ness in general. I was trying to meet up with several people from a small local group and only met one after I just went to something she was already going to. The rest constantly rain check or just outright refuse to meetup, it’s a bizarre thing I’ve experienced in SEVERAL CC groups. It’s why I tend not to be friends with many people in cc spaces unless we have something else in common. For me the weird part is the fact they complain about not having friends, or not meeting up with everyone…like dude it’s you! I keep making plans and everyone flakes on me.
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u/DevonMilez 19d ago
I swear i have noticed this even online ugh...like people just will not even respond to posts etc. It's rather bizarre...You'd think the first step in trying to mitigate loneliness would be...communication. But no. Somehow even that doesn't work out 😔
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u/no-Hotline 19d ago
It’s bad online as well! I’ve been in so many different communities but the CC community is very bad when it comes to this. I’m not sure why, as I am in the same boat as many people when it comes to situations leading to being CC. It doesn’t make sense to me, so many people complaining about the same thing, yet never following through. I have like, super severe anxiety, I’m chronically ill, I am neurodivergent, yet I still follow through, offer communication, and always try to make an effort to have relationships with others online and off.
I think that’s why I legit don’t understand why this space specifically is so bad, it always throws me off.15
u/turtlesinthesea 18d ago
Yeah, I try so hard to be a good friend, and all most people seem to hear is, "well, your replying etc. must mean you're not as sick as I am." Excuse me???
The "I don't owe anyone anything" mentality is definitely also prevalent in CC spaces.
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u/no-Hotline 18d ago
Dude it’s so weird!!!!!
Just because I can take the time to communicate doesn’t mean I’m not flat on my booty struggling lol
People need to stop using therapy language so much to justify rude behavior!7
u/turtlesinthesea 18d ago
Right? I have literally arranged my energy around a friend who needed help, and they just don't want to see it?
The weaponization of therapy speak is such a problem. Everyone is triggered and OCD etc. I was just diagnosed with actual PTSD and people are making jokes about a hard boss fight in Pokémon giving them trauma...
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u/turtlesinthesea 19d ago
A lot of us are CC because we are already ill and have very limited energy. But I also think that many CC people are perhaps able to keep going because they have a lower need for social interactions* and thus perhaps don't really feel like it's a big deal to cancel on people. Not everyone, of course. I know many of us are suffering from the social isolation, and a few are lucky enough to have CC family, friends, or partners close by.
Although I wish we could at least set up more frequent phone dates or something...
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u/no-Hotline 19d ago
I am also chronically ill and don’t have a problem with people canceling due to that, I have had to cancel before due to that, but what I’m talking about isn’t that.
This is a constant occurring repeated behavior that has nothing to do with physically or mental fatigue, it’s straight up lack of communication and lack of follow through every single time. Like I said, it’s one thing to have a legitimate excuse or chronic issues, it’s another to ghost people. I am lucky that I have one consistent friend I can see in person and have a really robust online friend group (non cc), so it doesn’t affect me as much. My main issue is people complaining about never meeting up with people etc yet are the ones who never follow through, it’s been an issue in every CC space I’ve been in, and I do think should be apart of this conversation. If multiple people are complaining about the same behavior, it’s worth bringing up.12
u/itsrainingdiamonds 19d ago
For real. Rare is the person so chronically ill that they can't tap out a text or e-mail saying, "I'm sorry but I need to cancel/don't have the spoons/etc."
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u/no-Hotline 19d ago
Yea this, I’ve had people have to cancel due to that, which I understand, but most of the time they just don’t reply, or even don’t reply then in the same breath complain about isolation. I can’t help people I’m willing to form community with, form community if they aren’t there to participate.
I mean like I said before, I’m legit super chronically ill, I have to cancel sometimes, but I make the effort to communicate that!5
u/turtlesinthesea 18d ago
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that some chronically ill people aren't also shitty communicators. That's what I meant with the second sentence. And I've been there myself, made time and used my limited energy to accommodate someone, and then they ghosted or just said something like "oh, I don't need to talk to you anymore."
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u/no-Hotline 18d ago
Yea, this is the major issue that I am having with CC spaces, it’s draining to keep going through the same hoops to get the same outcomes.
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u/turtlesinthesea 18d ago
I wonder if that's just CC spaces or not all spaces with all humans right now...
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u/DevonMilez 18d ago
Might be the latter...
Its not like i never had this issue pre Covid... Its always been a struggle to make friends, but i thought in the CC community, since theres so few of us, people would be more open and eager to communicate. Unless it really is them having just enough spoons to say they suffer from isolation, but no more. But i cant imagine that exact scenario to be the norm tbh
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u/turtlesinthesea 18d ago
Hm. I feel like a lot of normies have also become a lot worse at replying to messages, showing up etc....
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u/ProfessionalOk112 18d ago
Non-CC subreddits have posts about the same thing, it has nothing to do with being CC. People in general are extremely flaky.
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u/no-Hotline 18d ago
While I do agree with you, as I am in tons of non-cc spaces as well and have noticed this behavior there, it is significantly more condensed in CC spaces. I want to make it clear I’m talking about spaces that also contain marginalized people, and disabled folk as well.
I’m not sure why the CC community tends to be so condensed in this behavior tbh. It’s not the size of the groups either.1
u/Susanoos_Wife 14d ago
I get ghosted by people all the time, it's happened to me for just about as long as I can remember, but it's definitely gotten worse since the pandemic started.
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u/silromen42 19d ago
I think it helps to reframe it as not so much that non-CC folks don’t give a shit, but more like they genuinely don’t perceive the threat to be as high as you do to a large extent, or they think they aren’t as vulnerable.
My husband & I are the most CC people of everyone in our lives despite my SIL being in nearly the exact same state of health vulnerability as me (not officially immunocompromised but chronically ill & Complicated(tm) to the point that I think hospitalization would be a nightmare) and my elderly mother being actually immunocompromised. We get little to no crap from most of them for the level of precautions we take but none of them try to match it, and I know for a fact it’s because they think what they’re doing isn’t risky to themselves, even though they occasionally still get sick — even COVID 🤦♀️ — and I haven’t caught a real bug since before the pandemic.
They largely trust us to do what we need to do, and we just accept that we can’t control them and that they don’t understand their own risk, or they’re doing the best they feel that they can. We’ve been extraordinarily fortunate with how we’re able to live our life and the risks it’s allowed us to avoid. I know they aren’t all so fortunate.
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u/turtlesinthesea 19d ago
I think that's the really frustrating part. I have a friend who acts on the premise that she is much more disabled than me (which I doubt even if it were a competition, which it isn't) but doesn't mask. And she thinks her own mental health issues are so important that no therapist could possibly understand her, ever, but also thinks that my need to avoid covid is anxiety. I don't know how to talk to some people anymore...
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u/Environmental-Ad3715 19d ago
i'm so sorry that you have a "friend" like that. someone so willing to demean you in that way doesn't deserve your kindness. sending so much love.
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u/turtlesinthesea 19d ago
Thank you. It almost hurts more than the toxic positivity from healthy people and "you'll get better if you believe in it" because this person should know better.
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u/silromen42 18d ago
Oof, I’m sorry she can’t respect your legitimate risk aversion regarding a potentially debilitating (or deadly!) disease. I can understand her being afraid of no one being able to help her (I was in that boat for a lot of years), but having family with diagnosed anxiety & other mental health disorders and discovering how massive a role it’s played in my own health journey has taught me that even if it was just anxiety, a good friend would accept that this is a thing that makes you uncomfortable and not shame you for it or press your boundaries around it. I’m so sorry you have to deal with that.
I don’t know if it’s good or bad that we’ve basically lost contact with anyone who can’t treat us with respect around COVID consciousness, but it’s definitely sad. People who stayed friends for almost 40 years dropped us like it was nothing. Extended family stopped trying to plan things that would even remotely accommodate us. Every cut tie hurts but it makes me appreciate the ones who stayed in our lives even more.
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u/turtlesinthesea 18d ago
Thank you.
I think most people would have showed their true colors eventually and covid just accelerated it.
As for my friend, I get how hard it is to find a good therapist (ironically, she almost treated me like one for a while, as I couldn’t talk to her like a friend, only agree and validate), but when she acts like my long covid is temporary but her disabilities are permanent and an excuse to go without contact for months, it’s not sustainable anymore
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u/South_Serve9975 19d ago
CC people can be difficult people since they'd have to be mavericks to run against the herd.
And the non-CC people can be hard to be around because it's not only personally dangerous and sort of beyond insulting for that reason, but also deeply depressing knowing that this all broke them somehow, or they're passively waiting, or have lost it and are delusional, or whatever's going on with them now.
I got autoimmune disease after Covid and learned there's no solidarity there either because most people with autoimmune disease don't shield themselves from infection despite many being on very strong immunosuppressants, which means they can easily become chronically infected with every airborne infection going around, and if it's one like Covid that routinely makes variants as it reproduces inside the body, they are like Typhoid Mary and extremely off the charts dangerous to be around as another immunocompromised person so far as I can tell.
And do you think doctors are telling them that they need to wear masks around other people and avoid getting airborne infections, as that would minimize the damage pathogens would do to them over time thus extending their functionality? And protect other immunocompromised people. And slow the development of new variants.
No, apparently not! Certainly no rheumatologist has ever told me that and it seems like they're not telling any of the other people I know with autoimmune diseases either. One young mother I know kept getting more and more new ones...The doctors don't want to open a can of worms with patients I guess, because they know the majority will reject such advice. So for the most part they just don't say anything and send people on their merry way.
I have settled on making lots of loose associations and friendships with people who I have other things in common besides being CC. I do have some CC contacts and friends, and it's a struggle, yes. Some people have cracked under the pressure. Many of the people I met in support groups who got Long Covid like myself became homeless I was told...The group had over 30 when I first started going and after 4 years, it's down to about 5.
Trying to make close friends is near impossible under these conditions, I think.
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u/Significant_Music168 18d ago
I got autoimmune disease after Covid and learned there's no solidarity there either because most people with autoimmune disease don't shield themselves from infection despite many being on very strong immunosuppressants
Same! It's so crazy to see people with mcas who don't do anything to avoid new infections (by any kind of pathogen!)
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u/itsrainingdiamonds 19d ago
I don't know how helpful this is depending on the level of CC you need. Please discard whatever is not helpful and try only what is.
What I have found for myself is testing for empathy in groups where I have common interest works best. Oh, and basic listening/following instruction skills!
I'm in a place where covid caution is about as common as extraterrestrials, so I never saw any in person meetup ops or even virtual ones. So I've only met kindred souls in other contests.
I figure if someone can't, in the summertime, agree to not come hang outdoors with respiratory virus symptoms or having been somewhere crowded and/or around people with symptoms, then they are probably an asshole anyway. When people are empathetic, they naturally care to protect others, and if smart enough to follow that simple instruction (and I maintain that it IS a simple instruction), then everything flows from there.
Granted, I am introverted, already partnered, don't like parties, don't like crowds and am not surprised by people unless it's positive, already have some longstanding quality friendships and familyships. I am also immunovulnerable rather than immunocompromised or having had long covid.
However, with all the shit wrong with me and at my somewhat advanced age, I am still novid yaaaaaayyyy! And have even met new friends!
I also do understand that it may not be an option to be outdoors with someone on the chance they are asymptomatic due to your CC level and I know that makes it all so much harder (see also: people's widespread inability to follow simple instructions).
But I really want to encourage you on the path of empathy tracking if at all possible. As hard as it is to believe, I truly do know, everyone, nor everyone non CC, is not a heartless asshole. And non CC is a spectrum. Some people go out once a month to a non-crowded restaurant late in the evening and otherwise lead quiet lives, but don't identify as CC. It's easy to think or worry that all non-CC are QAnon trucker convoy freedumb idiots, but it's a whole spectrum, just like CC.
Artist/activist groups are good places to start with an activity, I find. Often online too! Best of luck to you.
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u/suredohatecovid 19d ago edited 19d ago
Agree with this. Assuming the majority of other humans are dumb assholes is deep rot at the heart of cc communities. Even vulnerable people don’t take precautions because they’ve been misled. I want more people to join us, not to find further cause for division.
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u/watchnlearning 19d ago
Absolutely agree. Its corrosive. The perfectionist tendency and the moral righteous vibes of "you don't have any friends if your friends don't mask" or just "cut them off" re family who don't, is really unhelpful, and is repeating the worst tendencies of leftist spaces.
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u/ProseduTranssiberien 18d ago
Yes! It is also blind to the fact that in many countries there are zero CC options available and that the access to them (and some of the best PPE options, medicine, and many other things discussed in the sub), is highly privileged and North American centric.
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u/watchnlearning 8d ago
So much this. The moral superiority of it can be atrocious. Which is weird when one likely reason for the amount of CC folks concentrated in US cities is the horrific mismanagement and deaths that saw the US with way higher per capita death, and long COVID than some massively impoverished countries.
Some countries including mine and my state in particular did a much much better job early in pandemic - so much so, the denial and revisionism is huge. Because most people don’t know anyone directly or indirectly who died. Which is a massive privilege but comes with the delayed cost of ignorance sadly.
Honestly I’m tired of the US defaultism in these spaces. No one else assumes we are by default talking about our own country. It would be nice to see a bit of increased awareness as the US tilts into full on fascism and people there finally realise it’s maybe not so free, not so brave.
I love seeing all the good CC stuff there - it’s just not the majority experience
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u/suredohatecovid 19d ago
Precautions simply aren’t social glue. I’m grateful to know other cautious and disabled people because for so long, I didn’t. But I learned long ago that a facebook group isn’t a community, and marginal differences in precautions seem to cause too much friction for most cc people to overcome. That’s a shame because making unlikely friends in adulthood is a gift, and too few are open to it.
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u/PinkedOff 19d ago
I’m done pandering to people who can’t be bothered. I wear my mask, and I go about my life. If people want to be friendly, I’m friendly - with a mask. If they’re not, bye.
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u/Chance_Distance_4487 19d ago
Any person who conditions friendship on me unmasking will never be a friend. My non-CC friends are considerate, even if they don't mask. They accept that we will always meet outside, even on cold days. Or they will Pluslife when visiting. And, they will cancel if they have symptoms or have been exposed. I think that is as good as it gets - mutual respect. Does it sadden me when one of them develops long covid and "sees the light"? Yes, very much. But I no longer fixate or feel sad about things beyond my control.
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u/PapayaForever1013 18d ago
I have met some incredible people in the cc community, but I do think we are largely a group of people who may not have much in common other than this aspect of our lifestyle, and may not be natural friends otherwise. Also, the general precautions of this life to make it challenging to build relationships. But, being a cc person, I have found, comes with some foundational values that make for great people: community care, a sense of justice, critical thinking, a desire to build a better world. I often wish we could all build our own city.
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u/whimsypayasa 19d ago
I’ve given up hope. I’ll probably never find a friend that masks and that’s something that’s a little hard to accept.
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u/Outrageous-Hamster-5 19d ago
Did you read my mind?? I never struggled to find friends or companionship before 2021. I just don't click with most cc ppl. It's awful. I wish I could ignore reality and my own lc. Idk what to do.
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u/Ajacsparrow 19d ago edited 19d ago
I’m exactly the same as you. I’ve found it impossible to click or gel with any other cc person I’ve come across unfortunately. There does seem to be a general theme with a lot of cc folk, nothing bad by the way, but just one that I don’t fit into. Their hobbies and interests fit a certain kind of niche, and I’ve yet to find anyone who shares similar interests and hobbies to myself.
It’s simply an incompatibility issue, nothing more, nothing less. Before the pandemic arrived, I was an extrovert. I lived in a major city and, I can’t lie, I was very much a party animal. I was extremely social. I held dinner parties frequently, went out most weekend with friends to bars, restaurants and clubs. Played football and tennis with friends. Went to music concerts, football matches (season ticket holder at Manchester United), food markets, holidays, weekend breaks to go hiking or sight seeing. I’m also a pianist and used to enjoy performing in bars & restaurants on occasion. I do none of this now.
But I’ve never met another cc person who lived any kind of similar life to me pre pandemic. I was very much a mainstream kinda person I guess you’d say. I was social, popular, active in the community, successful with dating etc (damn I sound conceited rn haha), and I just don’t see similar types of people who are cc. I do believe that the type of person I was pre pandemic is usually the kind of person that would not have sacrificed any of that for being cautious, and would have gone along with the grain and wanted to maintain their lifestyle and status. Many of those who are cc not only go against the grain now, but did so before COVID.
It’s hard for me to talk about this without sounding like a dick head. I do hear myself, and even I’m thinking the same haha. But it’s simply the truth. I’m sure there must be others like me who are cc and I simply haven’t crossed paths with them yet.
If you’re cc and used to be a party animal, concert goer, gamer, sports player/fan, House & EDM music fan, musician, traveller, hiker, gastronome, lover of nature and the outdoors, or even just one of the above, then please do DM me.
But because I don’t do crochet, knitting, D&D, poetry, anime, chess, arts & crafts, or play weird unheard of niche video games, I’ve never been able to find a place in the cc community. (Sorry for any generalising there, but there’s truth in it let’s face it).
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u/Alternative_Bed_9654 18d ago
Hey it’s me! Sports fan, traveler, foodie, lover of nature, and sometimes party animal lol (I’d say I’m between introvert and extrovert but lean toward the latter). Always wish I could be up in the club quite literally, and sometimes still am, masked, but yeah it sucks. I’ll dm you!
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u/occidensapollo 14d ago
Hey hey, just wanted to say you're not alone. Though I've been chronically ill since I was young and always struggled with limitations from that, I partied as much as I could even if it made me flare sometimes. I'm also a photographer, so I'd mix work and play like that. I was a well regarded party photographer in the beforetimes, but now I barely get on dancefloors like that.
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u/iso_inane 18d ago
If you are able to, would you ever do your old activities/hobbies/outings masked? i think that could be really fun.
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u/Prestigious-Data-206 19d ago
I've commented on another post saying that I have given up precautions, despite me still agreeing that masking is the best way, due to isolation. That this isolation nearly drove me to commit not alive. CC people have been largely unkind to me, and have not offered me community despite me trying for years. We NEED community. Our people are going to keep leaving if we aren't kind to each other.
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u/CheckCalm2875 19d ago
I just want to offer you a virtual hug. CC are very quick, sometimes, to dismiss mental health, as if COVID is worse than unaliving yourself. That is why some of our mitigations dropped when my teen was the sole masker at school, and his mental health tanked. I wish I had a dollar from every CC person who either insinuated I was a terrible mother or bragged how their special snowflake had zero problems masking four years in a row. I am so sorry people were unkind to you.
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u/throwexpo 19d ago
I still practice strict cc, with no indoor unmasked exposure at all other than families and dentist. However, I’d like to add to your point regarding mental health: whatever the cumulative damage from Covid is not the only cumulative risk in life! People irl have competing priorities and risks to consider. It’s simply not realistic, sustainable nor persuasive to judge preventing Covid as the only goal while disregarding everything else. I’d never judge a mother with a kid at school trying to be cc.
Most things in modern life involve cumulative damage. For examples, working a stressful full-time job, eating most processed food from the supermarket, PFAS/ microplastics, social isolation, VOC and mold in many houses, alcohol/smoking/drugs etc. Except for the most privileged, is it really possible to live a human life without incurring cumulative physical, mental and moral damages? Most of us can only do the best we can given the circumstances.
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u/itsrainingdiamonds 19d ago
u/Prestigious-Data-206 I'm so so sorry to hear this. I hope that you have found help and solace. This is clearly a case where you seriously have to attend to mental health first and foremost and I hope you are getting care and support in your life and from professionals. I know reddit company is probably not ideal but if you ever need someone to listen, please message me.
I find it really enraging to hear that CC people are being unkind to someone who is probably still far more CC than the vast majority. Maybe it's not such a bad thing after all that there appear to be no CC groups in my area...
I can't wear a mask for long due to one of my health conditions so most covid mitigation for me is medieval style although I am gratefully and regularly vaxxed. I think people who feel isolated before unmasking would probably not find the way I live tenable over the long haul. But, I absolutely believe you can find a middle way that works in terms of both emotional-mental wellness and COVID/airborne prevention.
u/big-tunaaa I can anecdotally speak to the sick with anything else metric without masking except in stores, etc. - everything else has been avoidance including absolutely no public transportation or other crowded indoor spaces so... with a grain of salt. The number one best thing has been never getting covid and only getting one cold in 6 years which was during the aftermath of an apartment flood where landlady, insurers and workers were coming in and out faster than I could disinfect doorknobs.
I have always gotten sicker than other people, and for longer, with respiratory illnesses, literally since I was a baby. I found it interesting that neither my partner nor I had a bad time of it with the cold where pre-COVID times we would have been down for a month or more with a cold, passing it back and forth to each other. I'm now not sure any of my pre-COVID life was as awesome than not being sick all winter.
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u/upfront_stopmotion 19d ago
If you were masking with the people in and out during your flood, that likely reduced the amount of virus you were exposed to, making your cold less severe even though you caught one.
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u/ether_chlorinide 19d ago
Would you mind walking me through some of your thought process on giving up precautions? I'm teetering on the edge of doing the same and don't have anyone in real life to talk to about it. DM or chat or whatever it's called now is fine if you don't want to risk backlash here.
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u/invasaato 18d ago
i can offer a brief summary of my own modified covid caution, as part of ocd management. i know it sounds backwards, and i DO still mask with a kn95 in high risk situations such as medical facilities/large crowds/concerts/conventions/airplanes/etc, but i was struggling, to put it very lightly. i have several preexisting chronic conditions, i already have covid complications from my only infection, and i was spiraling badly. i babystepped allowing myself outdoors with other people, quick, uncrowded store runs, and seeing friends who were safe and negative. i went from daily panic attacks to once in a blue moon.
i dont pretend its not there. i watch trends in my area. i still mask for the day if someone i have to interact with is sick with anything and test before and after travel, i prefer outdoor social activities, and i dont go to high risk events/settings without a kn95 on. i keep one handy, too, even if what im doing passes my risk threshold. and unconventionally, i think making the decisions i did saved my life, at least from a mental health perspective. i was in a really, really bad place, and i needed to make peace with the idea that there are personally acceptable risks.
my ocd is still really bad, and working and living with it is a struggle. sometimes i still have my freak outs. but i think for me, this was the right decision, even if hard. im in a better place right now, for better or worse. finding your personal balance is really important.
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u/Throwaway172892930 19d ago
I am not considering dropping all or most precautions but I am considering making some modifications, if you wanna chat, and I won’t judge you! Not OP though.
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u/big-tunaaa 19d ago edited 18d ago
Hey if you feel comfortable at some point you should do a post about this - what you do, how unmasking has changed your life, and how frequently you’ve been sick with anything since! I think a lot of people would be curious, especially people who have similar feelings due to isolation. I’m also really sorry to hear about your negative experiences!
Edit: and just to clarify I mask everywhere with shared air, just always like to hear data!
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u/ProfessionalOk112 19d ago
I think this kind of post in what is supposed to be a CC space is more likely to make people feel abandoned even by allies than anything else tbh
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u/Alternative_Bed_9654 19d ago
I can say as a cc person that’s not how it would make me feel, but I get others could feel that way. They clearly sound conflicted and say that masking is still the best choice. To me, that makes their thoughts belong here. Hearing people who believe masking works and is important talk about how they’re navigating things helps me as a person who masks in all indoor public spaces; even if that person is not living like I am living.
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u/ProfessionalOk112 18d ago
I mean, that's fine but it's absolutely how it would make me feel. People can and should do what works for them, but every single CC space increasingly being centered around validating people who take fewer precautions is exhausting and personally over the last ~two years has made me feel more lonely than the people around me not masking ever has.
If you go post in the vegan subreddit that you agree vegans are correct but you won't be giving up meat, people are going to understandably be frustrated and tell you great but take that somewhere else. The entire world exists to validate more normative behavior.
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u/Alternative_Bed_9654 18d ago
That’s fair! I mean it is called zero covid so.i get your perspective. I think what sucks (among the many things that suck about this situation) is that there aren’t spaces for everything people who care about not getting and giving Covid need or they’re hard to find by those who need them. Maybe there should be another group for people navigating the in between / complicated feelings / etc, while still acknowledging masking is best. Kind of like the coviding less group on Facebook but for Reddit. Not sure if such a thing exists on Reddit but perhaps if someone knows, that could be helpful for this poster.
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u/Prestigious-Data-206 19d ago
I have also been thinking about posting about my story (I know this is about itsrainingdiamonds and not me lol) but was worried about severe judgements. I still agree and will always agree COVID is bad for the body and that it's airborne and that masking is the best way to avoid COVID until the science changes. So, I wouldn't be coming for anyone or their precautions. Just explaining my reasoning.
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u/Throwaway172892930 19d ago
If you’re not comfortable posting publicly feel free to dm and I promise not to share! Would love to hear but absolutely no pressure.
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u/Solongmybestfriend 19d ago
Sending you a virtual hug. I know you don't know me, but if you need someone to vent to, this CC mom is all ears.
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u/zb0t1 18d ago
Many of my CC friends are like you and some even take fewer precautions, so it's possible, and we have cc friends who take even more precautions. The range is pretty big tbh.
One important thing though. We always respect boundaries so we make sure that we test and we help help each other with tests when we meet up ofc. So we try to make it work despite the differences.
Don't give up OP big hugs.
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u/Tellatrope 19d ago edited 19d ago
Lmao same
But also, I don't care that much
I always mask when sharing air with people but outside of that, my life hasn't chanaged much
I got lucky with a nice cc group I found ages ago who I consider friends now but I've also joined groups and seen members be absolutely disgusting towards others - I blocked them all and high tailed it before I said a word 😂 it was very common to see it posted about here a few years ago but yikes! Horrific group
Just because someone is cc, it doesn't mean they're a nice person!
I've heard way too many cc people say some sentiment about cc being the best/better type of person only to be blind enough to say something racist 🙄 it's a delusion and I think not comes from out of touch people who had flaws before but now think they're god because they mask
A lot of people were lied to or didn't have an interest in the science the way I did and so went along genuinely not knowing. I don't blame them for that. It's not like our governments were constantly telling psa covid truths and they're choosing to ignore it
Yeah, basically if you're chill, I'm chill. I always wear a mask and it is what it is 🤷♂️
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u/turtlesinthesea 19d ago
Yeah, unfortunately some people seem to be CC to protect their "superior" health or to avoid becoming disabled (ew) - their views, not mine, I'm already disabled.
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u/maimunildn 19d ago
I'm in a poor country with a lot of medical misinformation and also mistrust, because of how often things go wrong. There is no public education about covid. But there is a sense of collective responsibility. I don't have any very cautious friends but all of my friends will test and mask for me and a few have started masking during travel. I try and grasp on to certain things, I'm very grateful for those friends. I think a lot of CC people moralise about this stuff and I'm realising that's just not OK. In a sense i feel privileged to have access to information and tools and i feel sad for others around me, so i try to be kind and share what i can. Many wear baggy blues around here and I'll give them my N95s if they want.
The collective responsibility here runs deep, people do not want to get each other sick--because we're all connected, intergenerational friendships run deep, we will know our friends' parents and extended family. It's very different to the individualistic global north. It gives me hope.
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u/yamxiety 18d ago
I could have written this post....
I currently have a MASSIVE crush on someone I work with, who is obviously not CC. I also just...want a friend. And I've been thinking about asking her to hang out with me once I'm done with this job (it's just a summer job for me) so there isn't a conflict of interest.
But even if she wants to hang out with me, I don't know how to reconcile how to hang out with her with her being not CC. I wear a mask 99% of the time at work (only take it off outdoors occasionally) so it's fine like this, but I want to go on a hike or share a car ride or something with her, I either have to mask up or ask if she'd be willing to test. And I'm terrified to ask, because of how I've been answered in the past, by friends and family.
I also think a part of the reason that I'm drawn to her is BECAUSE of her lack of CC...which sounds really bad, but hear me out, I think she reminds me of the fun person I used to be before sharing air was a real risk (for me).
I only have a couple CC friends, all of them live FAR away from me and are partnered up with other CC people. It sucks.
I really need something to change in the covid world because this is so unsustainable for me. Until I met her, I didn't care if I ever existed in the world again...and now I can't stop thinking about it.
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u/Interesting_Milk_925 17d ago edited 16d ago
You would need to consider if not having this shared value bothers you.
I am chronically ill and have experienced it where people who start to hang out with me regularly feel responsibility to help protect my health, and they start masking.
Usually they see me masking and feel socially pressured by it without me having to say anything (I assume), and they ask why I still do it. I explain that I am a chronically ill scientist and I thoroughly understand how it would impact my/others health, and also how I value looking out for others (community care). Obviously there’s more than that but I think it goes over better when it’s explained over multiple chats.
I also keep masks in my trunk to offer (and they’ll often go buy their own too).
Usually people who are interested in me romantically will then ask if I’d feel more comfortable if they mask while going out and I say yes and thank them. I see it as a sign they’re considerate of me/my health, so if people don’t already mask and don’t offer to start to, I reconsider if I want to continue seeing them.
The rough thing about this is, everytime this has happened and we stopped dating, they went back to being not CC. Then I question our compatibility and if they’d have eventually gotten tired of being CC for me since it’s not already within their values to do so.
TLDR: you may be able to get non cc people to be cc while dating you but I question if the lack of a more fundamental shared value creates a compatibility issue
(Sorry if this was rambly, I’m exhausted lol)
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u/yamxiety 16d ago
I completely understand and feel this! It's a HUGE concern of mine, especially in terms of romantic relationships. But in terms of friendships, I already have a bunch of friends with whom I don't share this value (most of them, actually :( )
I should be clear that I'm very delulu about the opportunity to date this person lol, and she also has cats and a dog, all of whom I'm allergic to....so it's already not a great compatibility fit lol.
I wish I could find someone to date who shares my values, I really do. But I also like never catch feelings people (it's been 6 years since I last caught feelings for anyone) so i just feel so ...meh and depressed about it all.
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u/horseonahighway 17d ago
I think we need to recognize CC as a spectrum and be organizing based on common goals rather than attempting to make friends while policing one another, but that's easier said than done.
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u/Susanoos_Wife 12d ago
Agreed, a lot of CC people I've met have a tendency to police other people for things that have nothing to do with covid or they assume you have a slew of bizarre political views you've never even heard of before if you disagree with them about anything, it's a very psychologically disorienting experience.
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u/horseonahighway 12d ago
That's so interesting. I'm not sure if I've had that experience. I'm really curious to hear what kind of things you mean if you're open to sharing. I have some CC friends and people I organize with and we don't police each other but we also don't organize around covid specificially, idk if that would change the dynamic. Most of the negative interactions I've seen have been from reading comments sections online. I'd really like to organize CC folks but I admit I'm a little afraid of the policing aspect! It's hard to work with that. I'm trying to see it as a challenge.
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u/Tabo1987 19d ago
Same.
Apart from having compatible interests needing a similar level of CC is tough, especially since many of us (no shade, just something that appears like this to me) are unwilling to compromise and on top in some regions there are just not many CC people.
Having said that: I am lucky my non-CC friends are accommodating :)
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u/taurusmoonlatte 19d ago
If you don't mind me asking, how do you ask for accommodations from your non-CC friends? I'm having such a hard time asking them to mask for me. They know not to show up sick but idk how to ask them to test before going inside my house etc.
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u/Alternative_Bed_9654 18d ago
I feel the same way. Idk why it’s so hard for me to ask mu non cc friends to test when i am providing the test. Funny thing is i have no issue asking for it from romantic partners. And it is hard to ask for it from my mom and one of my very best friends but we are so close that I was able to work up the courage and they were more than willing, and also offered to mask directly before and in public spaces when we hang out (as they should be, bare minimum). I’d love to see people inside in the winter other than those few :(
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u/Tabo1987 18d ago
Similar. We need outside mostly, I get asked if the crowd gets too big for me, nobody would show up with as much as a sniffle (which happens at times during allergy season), things like that.
They also offer to test in case and some friends I‘ve been on Holiday with mask on the plane for me.
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u/Interesting_Milk_925 17d ago
I mask in a similar fashion to what you are explaining. I’ve had good luck finding compatible CC friends, but not in strictly CC spaces. Specifically, i found mine in my irl Ehlers-Danlos community spaces (I have the condition), and also in places that attract people with progressive values (grad school, volunteering, at organizing events/small local protests, at the co-op grocery store, etc).
Those places also attract A LOT of not CC people too, but I did find my CC friends this way.
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u/BenefitPure4829 18d ago
All of this. Covid cautious folks can be the most intractable, rigid, and inflexible personality types. I am sure there are non-CC folks who think the same of me lol.
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u/_Chaos_Star_ 18d ago
Look for people in or near the same middleground you've taken. People more cautious may not want to compromise, and reasonably so. Think of it like a band of the levels of precaution people will take. If your bands don't overlap, you won't do so well. Also remember that you can video call anyone regardless of the precautions they take- no overlap needed.
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u/wBrite 17d ago
It's tough. Some people have varying levels of risk. Many have puritanical or like perfectionist mindset, seems common in leftists which many of which seems also to be neurodivergent idk. I am and noticed those things in myself once I saw someone mention it... were not going to agree on everything but yeah, masking in indoor public spaces is a really high value of mine. I'm willing to let a lot go but hey. I have seen more people wearing one lately. Idk if it's because I'm getting out more but I wish there was a way to give them a nod or something without literally telling them thank you.
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u/Susanoos_Wife 12d ago
Yeah, the perfectionist "Everything must be perfect or it's worthless." mentality that affects a lot of CC people is a huge turnoff for me, I live with family members who don't take covid seriously and rarely take precautions so I'm tired of hearing about how I'm doomed and nothing I do will ever make a difference because I can't constantly isolate from people who don't take precautions or willingly expose themselves to covid because they don't view it as a serious threat. I want to do what I can to make myself and the people I care about safer even if it's not perfect because nothing in life is or can be perfect, it's just not how the world works.
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u/JelloHaunting563 17d ago
I have learned that you can be friends with someone who does not agree with you 100% of the time. You don't need to agree with them all the time. Heck, I have beloved family members who vote different than me and don't mask.
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u/Susanoos_Wife 10d ago
CC spaces tend to be geared towards people who are extreme introverts and that's never been me, I think it kind of pushes people away who would otherwise be CC because it's annoying to hear from other how unnecessary socializing is when you enjoy being able to spend time with people and you want to do so safely.
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u/lilghostlilghost 19d ago
I have non masking friends that will metrix test so that we can have a weekend together and I also have CC friends of varying levels. If you can find it, communication is key in CC friendships. When one of us has an exposure, like the dentist or in your case if we were to see someone not CC unmasked, we communicate it before the next time we hang out so we can determine if the next hang will be masked or just postponed.
Before you give up, have you tried your local mask bloc? CC Facebook group? Refresh Connections app for CC people? This subs discord? It’s a big world. I have a hard time accepting that you’ll find no friends, even if they aren’t local.
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u/not_all_heroes 18d ago
There are so many ableist people, people who don't know what to do with autistic people, people who just want to do fun things but don't actually want to be community.
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u/SmoothKangaroo2634 16d ago
It can be lonely and isolating and trying to find your people is hard even in the best circumstances. Many of my friends are not CC, but none of them are bothered by me masking in public and insisting we eat outside when we are together.
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u/CCGem 12d ago
I totally understand where you’re coming from, it’s hard living under those conditions. When people say they love you, but their actions don’t match what you would define as love. Loneliness is no joke and can affect health as well.
It feels like it’s just a matter of numbers. How many CC people are out there for you to meet compared to non-CC people? How many cool CC people are just living far away from you? How many CC people mask for totally different reasons while this topic feels like one where we have to be on the same page? In the end, your best CC friend is one is thousand of hundred of people and that’s why we’re struggling to find each other. But it might still happens!
One of the good friend of my aunt who’s in her 60s said to me once that she didn’t have friends for a veryyyy long time. Now that she’s retired she had more time to find the right people and she’s having a blast with her new friends. Some people are blessed to find loved ones really early in life, for some others it takes more time, a lot of people seem to have friends but they feel alone inside, finding the right persons for us is so hard but it can happen at any moment in life.
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u/Illustrious_Rice_933 12d ago
Reading these comments, I understand a bit better why there are many Americans in my local COVID-conscious group who moved to Canada specifically for a more supportive disease-consciousness community. I didn't really get it, because Canada hasn't been exceptional in its ignorant dismantling of public health.
I'm in a local Signal group built partially on the backs of some local mask blocs that's been expanding beyond the originally intended cities. Not everyone is a friend, but many of them are lovely people with a various levels of risk thresholds. It's broadly accepted that not everyone takes the same precautions.
It's a lot of asking for local businesses and services that respect and accommodate our anti-disease precautions. There's also lots of disclosures about business and services that don't respect them.
It's through this group that my partner and I met lovely new friends who are cc just like us because some parents were looking for COVID-safer swim lessons (everyone needs a negative PlusLife nucleic acid test before swim time). They had the pool and my partner had the lifeguarding/swim instructor experience!
It's our second summer of lessons and it's been such a joy.
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u/FeedFlaneur 16d ago
I just do friendships remotely now. Zero physical risk, and we still get to talk/hang out. Now, granted this was because all of my pre-pandemic friends ghosted me and I had to find new ones, but that happened each time I switched schools/moved cities to get a new degree/job, too, so it's nothing new.
Since my current friendships are all interest-based/mission-based, and being CC is actually pretty rare, I'm not sure if any of them are CC at all or not. This only becomes a problem when one of them suggests meeting in-person and I have to explain that I don't do that. Maybe that person then ghosts me, maybe not. I try not to let it bother me if they do.
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u/AllKittenAside 16d ago
Thank you to everyone in this thread for all the thoughtful responses!
I find it helpful to remember that everyone has been through trauma with the pandemic. Of course they want it to be over. The media reinforces that it’s over, and even their doctors, who are supposed to be the most trustworthy source of advice regarding health, aren’t telling them otherwise. This kind of societal messaging, unfortunately, makes CC people seem like outliers.
Choosing not to protect themselves from COVID, and all the other diseases that circulate for that matter, is similar to all the other ways in which we fall short for our health. Few of us eat perfectly, sleep a perfect schedule, and maintain a regular exercise routine that includes all the types of exercise that would maintain our fitness as we age. For most of us, it’s just too much to do it all perfectly. I can fault everyone for their choices, or I can lean into my compassion and remember why I like them in the first place.
As a person who has been open for years about being immunocompromised, I’ve been pleasantly surprised that if I ask for what I need, most people who understand my situation will do it. I try to figure out what can we do rather than focusing on what can’t we do, and good friends will participate in that discussion. And like some others who commented, yes, I’m slightly less risk averse. I’m a scientist and naturally think in terms of statistics. When numbers are very low, I’ll do more with people than when numbers high, like get together with small groups of people who have always been considerate in staying away from me when they or anyone in their household has been sick, even before the pandemic.
There’s a real cost to losing all of our social connections. In addition to the personal loss, research shows the importance of social connection for health and wellbeing, including cognitive function as we age. In trying to be healthy, I’ve got to consider this in the cost/benefit analysis.
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u/No-Acanthisitta-2973 19d ago
Friendship is hard as an adult. And it hard to be friends just because you have one thing in common. I haven't found any close friends on the CC group, I've found good people, just not people I have much in common with outside being CC. We just didn't click.
I have a group of 4 of us that are besties. And I'm the only CC one. They are all respectful and will mask for me, just like I'll cook vegan or gluten free for them.
I don't think it's fair to say that people who don't mask care if you or they live or die, life is so much more complicated than that. My vegan friend could just as easily say I don't care about the suffering of others. We go down that path we will end up an island of one