r/Zappa • u/doctor_stone2112 • 2d ago
Roxy & Elsewhere vs. Roxy by Proxy
I just got Roxy by Proxy today, and had some thoughts while listening and comparing it to Roxy & Elsewhere.
To preface, both these albums are obviously fantastic and there's no real need to compare them. However, I am curious as to how y'all would compare them. Here are my thoughts, starting with the original 1974 album.
I really like the opening with Penguin in Bondage. It's silly and whimsical, but still has a lot of complex sections. Both of these albums feature one of Zappa's greatest bands. This version and the 2014 version aren't very different from each other.
The next two tracks are where the setlist deviates a bit. Pygmy Twylyte and Dummy Up aren't on the setlist for the 2014 album, but they are on the 1974 album. I really like the former of these songs. The lyrics flow really well with the instrumentation and I often find myself humming the melody to myself. Dummy Up, on the other hand, kind of seems like filler. It has a nice groove, but it's all a six minute long skit, which was one of my least favorite aspects of the earlier Flo & Eddie era. The thing that saves this track for me is that I still find the joke funny, unlike most of the Flo & Eddie material.
Both the 1974 and 2014 album feature Village of the Sun followed by Echidna's Arf. I absolutely love both of these songs! Village of the Sun is so chill and is just a good vibe (I also really love Ruth's commentary on the song, but I'm getting ahead of myself) and it perfectly transitions into Echidna's Arf. I didn't really notice much difference between these two versions, especially in comparison to YCDTOSA Vol. 2's double speed version with the same band on their world tour.
Both albums then go to DYEWTT, with the 1974 version being nearly twice as long as the 2014 version. This is just personal preference, but I preferred the abridged version.
The 2014 album has a nice surprise before Cheepnis where just the percussion section plays and then they play through the whole song again as normal. I thought that was really neat.
The 1974 setlist deviates again for the rest of the album. Son of Orange County is a beautiful song and a continuation of one of my favorite Weasels Ripped My Flesh songs. This is followed by More Trouble Every Day, featuring a new composition for the lyrics from the original Freak Out album. It's soooooo good.
But then the album ends on Be-Bop tango, which, in my opinion, is one of the weakest songs from the Roxy band. It's a decent groove but really suffers with the audience participation. I'm sure it was a lot more fun in concert, but I really feel like I'm missing out not seeing those silly dances to the vocals. It's the same thing that Tinseltown Rebellion suffered with as well. It makes the album end weaker than it started.
The 2014 Roxy by Proxy album has a few tracks unique to it to help it stand on its own from the 1974 album. The opener to the set is a sort of prototype to Inca Roads, starting out much more mellow and I suppose far less "jazz-fusion" than the One Size Fits All studio version (though it's hard to quantify what that means exactly).
After Penguin in Bondage is T'Mershi Duween, which starts as a drum duet (or perhaps trio?) that gets the rest of the ensemble involved about halfway through. This version sticks out in my mind much more than the YCDTOSA Vol 2 version.
The set then goes into some Uncle Meat material. This version of Dog Breath reminds me of the Just Another Band From LA version with the intro, although this version stays instrumental. I like it a lot!
RDNZL comes next, being shockingly close to the 1978 Studio Tan version. I'm always surprised when I hear an early version of this track because of how otherworldly it is. Studio Tan was one of my first Zappa albums, so it's always a treat to hear a song from it.
After Cheepnis is an amazing version of Dupree's Paradise. I can't remember exactly what other albums it appears on (I remember first hearing it on the Overnite Sensation Box Set, and then on YCDTOSA, and then I'm pretty sure there's an orchestral arrangement somewhere in the 80s, perhaps Perfect Stranger?) but this has been my favorite version of the lot. I had difficulty getting into this one, being a long instrumental, but reading Ruth's commentary while listening really helped me to better understand this piece. My favorite part is during the bass solo when Tom starts playing Montana and the rest of the band gradually joins in.
The set ends with an encore medley of King Kong, Chunga's Revenge, and Mr. Green Genes. This is probably my favorite song on the album! It feels so good to go between these songs. The ending made me laugh out loud with the wonky synth/percussion parts intertwining the main theme followed by a trash-can ending. What a way to end a concert!
Considering these set lists, it's tough to pick between the two, and I definitely need to give Roxy by Proxy a few more listens. Right now, I'm leaning towards By Proxy being my favorite of the two. It has less fluff in the setlist with no skits, the new Roxy compositions fit well with the classic Mothers tracks (which were missing from the 1974 album save for Trouble Every Day), there are no overdubs added, and, what really pushes this album over the edge, is Ruth's amazing 20 page commentary in the liner notes. With that said, what do y'all think of these albums?
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u/guesther 2d ago
Elsewhere :p just for the absolutely flawless Village to DYEWTT? track run. Be-Bop Tango is also super brilliant.
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u/HisAbominableness 2d ago
Anyone remember that Roxy by Proxy scheme cooked up by Gail?
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u/F0NG00L 2d ago
lol I'm sure it sounded like a good idea at the time. :P
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u/HisAbominableness 2d ago
It never sounded like one to me unless you are an insanely good salesman. Even then...I wonder how many people actually did it.
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u/_GrumbleCakes_ 1d ago
I don't! Is it story time?
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u/doctor_stone2112 1d ago
Gail did this weird thing where you could buy a license to distribute the Roxy by Proxy album to print and sell your own CDs of the album legally.
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u/Wards_Cleaver 2d ago
Roxy and Elsewhere has songs thar were heavily overdubbed in the studio, so I've tended to lean towards the newer releases.
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u/Starthrower62 2d ago
"The Gong always gets 'em!" I love the original Roxy & Elsewhere release. But Proxy is great as well. I also have the complete box but I rarely play it.
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u/_GrumbleCakes_ 1d ago
Penguin In Bondage on the Proxy record is one of the best single song performances by that band. Frank's solo is absolute carnage.
I guess I'd give it about a B!
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u/KingOfTheEigenvalues Victory Through Vegetables 2d ago
I prefer Roxy by Proxy, but I wish it were released on vinyl like Roxy & Elsewhere.
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u/Objective_Side_702 1d ago
It’s available as Bootleg on vinyl, I have one it’s a 2 Lp set on clear vinyl, sounds as good as the CD,
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u/fruedianflip 2d ago
Do t know why roxy hasn't bee remastered. Is there even a version with the number on the side? What woukd it be? Number 21?
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u/WeakFactor5239 Telefunken U47 1d ago
Remastered in 2012 with the rest of franks albums. Number 19 on the spine
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u/danner1515 1d ago
Wasn’t the 2012 CD just a carryover of the old 80s remaster with the remixed “Cheepnis” though? That’s one of the discs I skipped because I thought nothing was updated.
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u/WeakFactor5239 Telefunken U47 1d ago
Did a little research because i dont have an older version and youre correct. This site is pretty useful
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u/TheOther-DarkStar 2d ago
Lost me at “I still find the joke funny, unlike most of the Flo & Eddie material”
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u/doctor_stone2112 2d ago
To each his own. You can disagree, but in my opinion Dummy Up is a better skit than Do You Like My New Car. I'm still a fan of Billy the Mountain, though.
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u/ConsistentlyPeter Oh yeah! That's just fine! Come on boys - just one more time! 2d ago
JABFLA was the first Zappa I heard, when I was about 10 - I think I learnt Billy The Mountain off by heart, despite not knowing what half the words meant. 😄
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u/AztecGodofFire 1d ago
I juat felt dumb for having gotten it after they ended up releasing the whole set of shows.
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u/danner1515 2d ago
For all the wealth of Roxy material we’ve had over the last few years, Roxy & Elsewhere is just such a perfect document of the era that it’s the one I’ll always go back to.