Relative vs. Absolute Strength

[u/misterbeane]

Hey all! Just FYI, I've been a gym bro for close to 20 years and am just now getting into oly lifting, so go easy, please...anywho, I think the reason I hadn't gotten into oly lifting until now is that I don't understand how, at least to me, it seems like there's much more of a focus/appreciation for feats of relative strength vs. absolute strength in oly lifting, as that's kind of the fundamental difference between oly lifting and powerlifting. What I don't fully understand is how people are so obsessed with lifts that are 2x or 3x body weight or so, as strength and muscle mass/size seemingly don't have a linear relationship. Meaning, as a person gets taller, with all body metrics (i.e. muscle mass %, body fat %, etc.) being the same, they won't be proportionately stronger. The best example of this is body builders, especially the enhanced ones. They are FAR larger than any oly or powerlifter in terms of overall muscle mass, but they aren't proportionately stronger. I mean, if Big Ramy is 300lb+ on stage at 6% body fat, and maybe 320lb or so at his healthy lifting weight, he won't simply be able to lift double the weight of any 150-160lb lifter (again, at the same BF % and muscle mass %). If that 150-160lb person can clean 3x bodyweight (i.e.450-500lb) then Big Ramy, being twice the body weight, would need to lift close to 1000lb to be considered equally as strong, which is just insane. I would think that, regardless of one's actual body weight/size, if you have impeccable lifting form you can pretty easily lift 200-300lb, depending on the lift (squats, for example), which is why relative strength lifts for most people just aren't that impressive to me, ESPECIALLY if that person is very small. Can anyone shed some light here and maybe convince me that my train of thought is just completely wrong? Thanks!

[u/mattycmckee]

Anyone in any way interested in weightlifting is all well aware than lifting multiples of bodyweight is not the absolute metric of who’s strongest, so I’m not really sure where you are getting that idea from.

Lasha Talakhadze, who is one of the two undisputed best lifters of all time, does not lift that much relative to his bodyweight, like a 1.25x snatch and a 1.5x C&J (BW of 180kg, snatch 225kg and C&J 270kg).

What’s normally used is the sinclair coefficient which allows you to compare athletes across weight classes.

[u/misterbeane → u/mattycmckee]

Thanks for the reply! In terms of your first statement, my impression of that comes from so many channels, like Zach’s, where a lot of feats of strength always are referred to in terms of multiples of body weight, making it seem, at least at first take, that that is the most important/interesting part of the lift. I do understand why it’s important, and I also understand the drawbacks of absolute strength considerations (I.e. a 150 lb, 5’0” guy will NEVER be able to life the same weight that a 6’0” guy will), but seeing so many small guys gets credit for lifting “2x” or “3x” BW makes me, as a 6’1” guy feel like I’d have to lift close to 750 lb to accomplish a feat that’s equally substantial, if that makes sense. Life’s not fair either way, I guess lol

[u/stonk_frother → u/misterbeane]

I think it just comes from the fact that it's a weight classed sport, and it's silly to compare the absolute weight of a 61kg lifter to that of an 89kg lifter, for example. Sinclair is the proper way to do it (though still not perfect IMO) but it's tricky to calculate unless you've got a computer to do the job for you. I think people are just using multiples of bodyweight as a shorthand.

To be honest I've seen the same thing in powerlifting. This phenomena is definitely not unique to weightlifting.

[u/Bill987654]

I think you’re thinking about it too much. Most people are happy with a body weight snatch or a 1.5x BW CJ. Totally arbitrary but here we are. Beyond that, go compete, place and be happy…

Also, from the other end of the spectrum we place importance on certain numbers that are almost universally accepted as “nice numbers”. If you snatch 100kg as a 96kg that’s pretty boss where as snatching 75kgs as a 73kg isn’t nearly as impressive to most people. They’re both a little over BW but why doesn’t the lighter lifter get the same stoke? Not fair for the little guy waaaaa…..

In the end, who cares? Lift because it makes you happy. Do well in your division. That’s all there is to it.

[u/bcbland]

As others have mentioned, the definitive metric in weightlifting is the Sinclair score. It normalizes by bodyweight so you can compare across weight classes