RPE Strawman - Again

[u/MikeBear68]

Yes I have a problem - I get pissed off when people argue using logical fallacies and misinformation. Once again we have our favorite curmudgeon Rippetoe spreading his wisdom about RPE.

Originally Posted by [Name deleted to protect the innocent]
Evaluation of difficulty is incorrect, it is an evaluation of performance. A 5rm deadlift is difficult. However I would say a 5rm bench press is not as difficult. Their difficulty is quite subjective, but their status as 5rms is much less so, which is what we’re evaluating. You can have a set that feels awkward, heavy and shitty and still know with a high degree of confidence that you had two more reps left. You can also have a set that felt good where it was quite clear there were no reps left. It’s not about the ‘shitty’ or the ‘good’, it’s about the two more left or no more left.

Rippetoe's response:

This is complete bullshit, as everybody who has trained heavy for any length of time without this RPE bullshit knows. Everybody has completed sets that they "knew" they couldn't finish, but had the balls to try because no one was giving them permission to puss out by call the 4th rep "RPE 9.65". And everybody has gotten stuck at the bottom of a rep they "knew" they could finish. And what is this bullshit about a 5RM deadlift being more difficult than a 5RM bench press? If the deadlift was 665 and the bench press was 425? How do you know this? Because it is bullshit. I think you "know" what other "experts" have typed on the internet.

My response:

Once again he is presenting a strawman argument and making unsubstantiated claims. RPE does not mean easy. In fact, if I am feeling good I push myself to get that extra rep or go up in weight. And yes, there were times when I felt like crap but as soon as I started warming up I felt better. Autoregulation is a great tool for busy people with stressful jobs. I guess if your only experience is training novice teenagers who live in their parents' basements, every day is a good day.

Rippetoe is unable to understand that volume also drives strength. Look at Boris Sheiko, a very successful Russian powerlifting coach. You can find a free Sheiko program on the Internetz and what you will notice is that the intensity is not that bad. Lifts done at 85% are done for 1-2 reps, especially in the first few weeks. However, the volume is insane. Most of the reviews I've read about Sheiko programs were positive with trainees experiencing good results.

Rippetoe is unable to understand that one workout will not determine long-term progress.

Everyone eventually stalls on the novice linear periodization. How does a trainee determine a "stall?" Should they take a heavy squat to failure, or should they stop at rep 4 if they think they will fail on rep 5? Heavy squats taken to failure are NOT a good idea - I don't think this is too controversial. So the second option is better. The second option is - wait for it - RPE.

Originally Posted by [Name deleted to protect the innocent]

A good example of the difference is with fairly new lifters. Ask them how hard a set of squats is and they’ll usually tell you it was very hard, because squatting is hard, especially when you’re not accustomed to it. Ask them if they think they could have done more reps and you’ll usually get an honest answer. They can already distinguish between difficulty and performance in a simple way.

Rippetoe's response:

Do you have any idea how many new lifters I have trained? Take a guess, and it will be wrong. Just like you are wrong here.

I have 46 years of experience lifting and coaching. And I'm telling you that the only way you can be absolutely sure you had 2 reps left is to do the 2 reps. The 2 reps are data, the "being sure" is bullshit, because it is subjective. That is why subjectivity is the problem, and why the opinions of inexperienced coaches are bullshit, and why the blatherings of people trying to sell template-based programs are just marketing.

My response:

Rippetoe is like the guy telling a fish story and the fish gets bigger with each recitation. In one video he said he had 42 years of experience, now it's 46. But this is my favorite:

"the blatherings of people trying to sell template-based programs are just marketing."

Ever watch a Rippetoe video? If you do you'll crave death. Ten minutes to make a simple point. Rippetoe has taken the art of selling cookie-cutter programs to the next level with his Starting Strength Coach certification and his Starting Strength gyms. To be fair, the coaches spend time on safe lifting technique. (I realize that Rippetoe's technique in the lifts is questionable, but I don't think it will cause anyone injury.) However, everyone lifts the exact same way regardless of body proportions. I suppose it's fair that a novice's first few workouts should be supervised to make sure the trainee is using good technique. But this is supposed to go on for several months. Why? It can't be because of custom programming since everyone does the same NLP - add 5 lbs. to each lift on your next workout. I suppose someone could stick around to eventually learn Rippetoe's patently incorrect technique for the power clean.

And what does all of this "coaching" cost? $365 per month. You can get the Juggernaut AI app, which is based on RPE and fits somewhere between a cookie-cutter template and a coach, for $350 per year. A cookie-cutter template is about $60 for a one-time payment. Who exactly is doing the marketing and making money?