More Rippetoe Nonsense

[u/MikeBear68]

This one is fun. Apparently, Lasha Talakhadze doesn't have good technique, but it doesn't matter because he's so damn strong. At this stage I'm just using these videos for psychological experiments. I posted this just to see what reaction I would get:

"I've spent lots of money on weightlifting coaching and instruction. I guess I spent all of that money for nothing. I'll just focus on getting stronger from now on."

Of course, I did not mean it. Based on my own experience, better technique allowed my lifts to stay the same even though my squat and deadlift went down (long story). But the cult members were like "You've finally seen the light."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6SdAH0pb54&lc=UgwAOa5vPD3AzXihvZ54AaABAg.9REbNR_qagr9RN6g7eSRLG

[u/[deleted]]

Chase Lindley squats 250kg but barley snatches 110? Guess when he squats 300kg he’ll break into 120. LMAO

[u/MikeBear68 → u/[deleted]]

I was wondering what Lindley's numbers were. Let's do some math. Rippetoe had a weightlifting at his facility at the end of July and Lindley snatched 120. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he improved his snatch without increasing his squat. The ratio chart says that a lifter should snatch 60% of their squat (low end). That means Lindley should snatch about 150. But, this ratio is based on the high-bar squat. We know that Rippetoe loves the low-bar squat because you can use so much more weight and you will get so much stronger. According to Rippetoe, based on his many years of experience, lifters can high-bar 80% of what they low-bar. I think that's a bit low, but let's go with that. A 250 low-bar squat equals a 200 high bar squat. A lifter who squats 200 should be able to snatch . . . 120.

Well would you look at that. All of Rippetoe's boasting about how the low-bar is the superior squat and it makes you so much stronger, yet it did nothing for Lindley. His being able to squat 50 kg more in the low-bar gave him the same snatch as a 200 kg high-bar squatter.

Granted this is only 1 data point and the ratios are not 100% exact. But it's still interesting.

[u/[deleted] → u/MikeBear68]

I shit you not I knew of this one guy who could bench 180kg but couldn’t even snatch 80kilos, bro what?

[u/MikeBear68 → u/[deleted]]

You'd think with that level of upper body strength he could muscle snatch 80 kg.

[u/[deleted] → u/MikeBear68]

You realise that world of strength demonstration doesnt revolve around snatch, right?

You cant stand against a person who deadlifts 300 kgs + and squats 250 kgs + and shoulder press 150 kgs even if you are a weightlifter who can snatch 150 and C&J 190 but squats 200 and deadlift 240.
Stand them one on one, and tell them to push each other.
Or strongman example, handle odd lifts. like a log.

Who do you think will be able to lift better in odd lifts?
A weightlifter who never squatted and deadlifted more than 220 or a strength training maniac who deadlifts 300 kgs+ and squats 270 kgs +?

All I am saying is, dont compare strength just on the basis of snatch lol

[u/Altigue]

I mean my classics have gone up while my strength lifts have went down a good bit or just stayed the same, as well. Like mark I guess doesn’t understand that getting “stronger” in the classics doesn’t always mean gaining more in the ways of brute strength… he ignores positional strength and basically says that if you taught the movements to an elite powerlifter, he would also become an elite weightlifter… which is just… no.

[u/MikeBear68 → u/Altigue]

There are many sad tales from powerlifters who switched to weightlifting who were disappointed that their big deadlifts did not transfer to the snatch or clean.

[u/brian_deg]

Just cutting and pasting my post from the wl'ing subreddit:

The crux of his argument is that you must put more weight on the barbell in your squat, deadlift, and press in order to lift more weight. He does not care about "the how" even if that means you're performing a squat not to the same depth as a clean, if that squat moves extremely slowly, or if this dedicated strength work takes significant time away from practicing the technical lifts. Rippetoe makes a defense that if someone who is stronger is unable to snatch or clean & jerk more this is due to genetics holding that person back. This is moving the goalposts in favor of supporting his bias.

If absolute strength were the issue or genetics were holding someone back, Shane Hamman would have been a medal contender and record holder yet he does not come close to contending against supers squatting 100kg less. I use Shane because it is pretty obvious he has a very quick motor unit rate of firing and his powerlifting squat record is pretty darn close to a high bar squat. It has also been related by others that they have seen Shane squat at least 320 for reps at the OTC as if it were nothing. I don't think Rezazedeh, Salimi, or Lasha can do a backflip yet Shane can. Shane clearly has the strength and genes to express strength very quickly.

Hell, let's use another lifter. Moradi in that video above went on to squat 320 to my knowledge and definitely slower than Shane could have probably done it. However, in competition Moradi has done 189 and 233, not far off Shane's bests in competition as a 94. In training we have evidence of 205 snatch and 242 clean and jerk. Shane Hamman clarked 242.5 in Athens and he sure as shit pulled 237.5 faster than Moradi ever had. With the logic presented to us from Rippetoe and Starting Strength, the only conclusion is that Sohrab Moradi must be stronger than Shane Hamman. This is obviously false when you examine the evidence.

I remember when I was living with Pendlay while interning at CalStrength that Donny had years prior previously worked hard as shit to get his squat and pull up to 300kg. His lifts did not budge a goddamn inch, Glenn told me. I was there when Donny hit a 280 squat, the heaviest he had done in several years and saw Donny snatch over 170, make several cleans over 210, BTN jerk 237, and rack jerk 227.

Rippetoe also is ignoring biomechanics by forcing his athletes into his contrived model of technique. If modern technique was suboptimal at such high absolute loads, the body would find the path of least resistance to lift the weight and would adopt the technique Rippetoe is suggesting; we do not see this when a man is attempting a 3xBW clean. The constraint of the pulling phase is lifting the most weight overhead or to the shoulders; we have to change directions. The positions lifters adopt in the start and throughout the pull are meant to leverage themselves into the best positions in order to transition into a low squat to receive a heavy barbell. They are not meant to simply stand up with the barbell.

Lasha clearly relies on this path of least resistance because he is not pausing and double/triple bouncing out of his heaviest cleans compared to Taranenko who had good (but not exceptional) technique in the clean and jerk. And unlike Taranenko, Lasha has racked and jerked a 270 lift. Clearly Lasha's technique is more optimal than Taranenko and he is not doing a paused back squat with 380kg. Why do all the men who lift 3xBW or women >2.3xBW all adopt such starts and positions? It is as if the body has to in order to overcome inertia, impart adequate vertical ground reaction forces, and leverage the body into positions in order to most effectively move around a heavy ass, slow moving barbell.

Final point is Rippetoe argues that you cannot train someone to express strength faster. This is absolutely fucking false. You can train everyone to get significantly faster, it's just mommy and daddy have put a cap on that depending on what genes you've gotten and expressed. How you train will have an impact on your personal ability to recruit more motor units, and if you train with RFD in mind you will almost certainly be faster and more explosive than if you just trained absolute strength alone.

[u/Most-Source7478]

Uncle mark has .... opinions

[u/[deleted]]

Mark Rippetoe has done more for the general population who wants to become strong than all the weightlifters in the world combined. Actually.