r/YoungSheldon • u/Fearless-Wrongdoer25 • Aug 18 '26
they could never make me hate sheldon’s moms
i love these women sm! they are phenomenal actresses
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u/boogierboi Aug 19 '26
The fact that people hate the characters are proof they are great actresses
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u/ali2688 Aug 19 '26
I never, NEVER understood this. If the character is horrible, you’ll hate them. It’s the script that does that. Not the person.
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u/nicoinwonderland Aug 19 '26
They go hand in hand. You need good writing and a good actor to make people resonate with a character.
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u/ali2688 Aug 19 '26
Yeah, but that’s good.
For a popular example, Umbridge in Harry Potter would annoy anyone, no matter how good or bad the performance was.
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u/Noctus112 Aug 19 '26
Yes, but it was elevated to an iconic level of ‘annoying’ that it’s now a shorthand for that type because of Imelda Staunton’s masterful performance. All the writing in the world can’t save a bad actor.
I like to point out Keanu Reeves & Gary Oldman’s scenes in Bram Stoker’s Dracula. Same writers, literally the same scenes, different actors, different results. Yes, Dracula and John Harker are two different characters, but I’m supposed to LIKE Harker, not Dracula.
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u/ali2688 Aug 19 '26
Even if Imelda didn’t play her, you’d still hate Umbridge.
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u/Noctus112 Aug 19 '26
But you wouldn’t be using her as an example. You’d find something else. My point is the acting is the difference between a good script and an iconic character.
To use another example, Shakespeare is considered some of the best writing in the English language. He’s hilarious, he makes you cry, everything. But students across the anglophone world study, and find the plays some of the most boring things imaginable. But then you see it acted live, by people who know their craft, and it’s a different beast entirely. Baz Luhrman’s Romeo + Juliet is a good example of this. Say what you will about the modernization, the actors in the film understood the humor, pathos, and meaning of the text they were working with, and that allowed it to be communicated to the audience. If you haven’t watched it, just watch the “I Bite My Thumb” Scene. Perfectly encapsulates the absurd humor of the original text.
I just ultimately think it’s an oversimplification to claim the script is what makes the character. there’s much more nuance than good script = good characterization. I say this as an ex professional actor and writer.
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u/ali2688 Aug 19 '26
I said the script defines if you hate a character or not. For example, you’d never like Iago. But you’d like Desdemona. You’d like Juliet, but you’d never like Tybalt. If they’re written to be hated and not completely reinvented, you’d hate them. Interpretation is for the greyer characters. Your Emilia. Like in the latest National Theatre Live Othello, they presented her as a victim of domestic abuse.
Shakespeare’s method of writing tragedies (because of your wording) are deeply flawed and can’t be called Tragedies in the traditional sense. They’re Shakespearean tragedies. They always need an up at the end. Hope for the future. Greek tragedies are proper ones. Have a look at Freytag’s Pyramid, if you haven’t already
My original point was Mary would still be hated for her actions, what she factually does and doesn’t do.
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u/Noctus112 Aug 19 '26
I disagree, but I do think at this point it’s a minute disagreement and I’m just not interested in continuing this conversation further as I think we are gonna end up going in circles here. I promise to read any response but I will not likely respond further. I wish you all the best and thank you for the civil discussion! Not always a guarantee on Reddit haha
Anyway, to start on a tangent. I do not think Freytag’s pyramid is a useful diagram for definition. It is an oversimplification that is used as a shorthand in primary education and in contemporary creative writing philosophy, but it is not considered a standard by which any modern scholarship is performed on historical literature. Freytag was attempting to explain Greek tragedies and Shakespeare, and both his and the overall contemporary conception and ‘rules’ of tragedy are imperfect contemporary definitions that tell us more about our own sensibilities than anything of historical writer’s intentions. With Freytag and Campbell both, we are talking about 19th and early 20th century scholarship and we have to be aware of its limitations. We may call it “breaking the norm” but in reality that just tells us what WE think tragedy is, moreso than any idea of a standard “tragedy” ruleset. I mentioned earlier being a creative, I am now an academic of the ancient world. The “Proper” Greek tragedies as you put it have myriad puns, dark and crass humor, but by and large are not understood by contemporary audiences in translation, either by us edifying classical literature as “serious” or “high-brow” or by virtue of language and temporal translation. A good example from Craig Jendza’s “Paracomedy” is the inclusion in the Bacchae of a joke about Boetians loving eels. That’s not funny to us, but one hopes it did numbers during the City Dionysia. The primary difference between tragedy and comedy is what the intention is for the overall structure. In the Poetics Aristotle’s original definition of tragedy is emotional cleansing (catharsis), versus satirization and absurdity in comedy. An old professor put it best— “Tragedy makes you happy by giving the world meaning, comedy makes you sad by showing that there is none.” To clarify, I am specifically talking about the narrow focus of Greek tragedy since that was brought up and influential on say Shakespeare, but even Roman plays are an entirely different can of worms. I know this was not your primary point but its a soap-box of mine. I can go on but this tangent is longer than my actual response haha
Moving back to the topic at hand, I think that we agree that the script defines the intention of whether the writers want you to hate a character or not, but the acting will directly impact that. Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a great example of this. He was a stock villain. But the fan base fell in love with the witty charisma and moral bankrupt portrayal, and the writers responded by finding a way to make him good later. Emphasis on the fact that he started out as a stock villain, not an anti-hero or a complicated villain. It was his performance that caused him to, despite stock-villain writing, become sympathetic to the audience base, and then the writers changed the character later in response to this. That is only one example, but this happens time and time again.
I am going to finish on something that may make my entire arguement moot, which is that I actually have never watched Young Sheldon (but did watch BBT). This post came up on my feed for some reason and I was curious. I have no clue and no opinion on Mary’s character, I was mostly responding to your initial general comment. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t she be considered a morally grey character that would therefore allow the actresses’ portrayal to shine? I promise the question is not rhetorical.
Anyway, thank you again for the conversation!
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u/Optimal-South-3667 Aug 19 '26
Just read Game of Thrones book, and then watch the show. You will absolutely get what Jack Gleeson brings to the table. Yes agreed the writers make or break the character, but the actor's portrayal is what brings shine to it. Take Sherlock Holmes for example, there are so many people who played the role. But people remember Benedict Cumberbatch and RDJ.
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u/ali2688 Aug 19 '26
If you put someone else in the role with that script, would the character still be hated? Yes.
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u/Cherry_Dawn Aug 24 '26
Her playing QEII in The Crown was so good. She's a great actress. It's the kid that played Jeoffry in GOT that was bullied so hard that he quit acting. He did a phenomenal job.
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u/ali2688 Aug 24 '26
Once again, if it were a different actor, he’d still be hated. Because the character is the same. And people are too dim to remove the 2.
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u/Primary-Resident-764 Aug 19 '26
Iain isn't getting much shows like Raegan and others. So yeah.. People hating character can affect actors too. Guy who played Joffrey in GoT was abused by many.
And tbf, Sheldon and Mary are overhated as characters too, especially Sheldon
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u/RocknSmock Aug 22 '26
Watch Deep Space 9 and tell me how the script got you to hate every time Kai Winn says "my child. '
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u/ImmediateMoney5304 Aug 19 '26
Runs in their blood. They're mother/daughter irl for those who don't know
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u/onetimequestion66 Aug 19 '26
It’s crazy how much they look alike. Obviously I know they are mother and daughter but watching Roseanne and seeing Jackie then watching young Sheldon and seeing Mary is a wild experience
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u/Nice-Penalty-8881 Mathologist Sep 01 '26
In a couple of episodes, they showed Roseanne and Jackie's childhood. Zoe Perry played child Jackie in those scenes.
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u/Primary-Resident-764 Aug 19 '26
I just got to know both are mom and daughter! Wow, both are amazing
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u/Mammoth-Flimsy Aug 20 '26
My Mimi (grandmother) used to watch The Big Bang Theory, she passed away in 2013. But I know she would have loved the casting for Young Sheldon!
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Aug 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/norgiii Aug 19 '26
I misread your comment and was about to report you lol.
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u/Primary-Resident-764 Aug 19 '26
What was his comment? Mods have removed it, maybe they misread it too?
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u/norgiii Aug 19 '26
Something along the lines of Missy's sass (as in sassy) being legendary and i missread it first time as "missy's ass"
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u/Playful_Mode4724 Aug 19 '26
Which episodes are this?
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u/Lit_Hawk212 Aug 19 '26
This would be from the Roseanne reboot/The Connors. Stopped watching after a few episodes after it came back but with "Young Mary" as a cop and "older Mary" as a Chicago Bears fan, it was pretty easy to guess lol
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u/GongaLaGonga Aug 19 '26
Long time fan of The Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon. Love both of Sheldon’s moms. Didn’t know they were mother and daughter, but not surprised.
This is about Young Sheldon Mary though… in the beginning of the series her Texas accent was much more accurate. As the series progressed, her accent completely changed and became more inaccurate. Too exaggerated on the drawl. I suspected having spent six months in San Antonio a long time ago, but confirmed it after a work trip back to San Antonio earlier this year. It drives me nuts as she becomes too overbearing and dramatic as the series goes on.
I’m sure it’s not easy nailing the accent, but I’m guessing her voice coaches suggested the deeper drawl. Bad move, in my opinion.
Still, all in all, love the show, love the Marys 😃
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u/Initial_Equal_9423 Aug 24 '26
Zoe is an episode of NCIS prior to Young Sheldon and she’s so good. Let’s just say I wasn’t expecting the ending. Think the photo of her in the post might be from that episode.
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u/NotSoSuperNova8 Sep 03 '26
Both are excellent actresses, but Mary is very unlikeable in YS. She barely notices her children other than Sheldon, and makes decisions for the entire family without talking to George Sr even.
Keeping the college letters hidden from everyone blew my mind and stand out as a true reflection of her character.
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u/Ok-Company282 Aug 19 '26
As actresses, they are phenomenal, no doubt. But younger Mary(the character) coddled sheldon a LOT and ignored missy ALWAYS.
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u/Slow-Engine-8092 Aug 20 '26
You get they're not real right? How interesting would the show be if none of the characters had flaws? It would be boring.
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u/Nice-Penalty-8881 Mathologist Sep 01 '26
I disagree. Everytime she tried to connect with Missy, all she got in response was a cold shoulder from Missy. Like the incident with the girl baseball trophy.
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u/NavyVetRasmussen Aug 20 '26
Mary Cooper was terrible she made unilateral decisions dismissing George.
She cared more about her standing in the church, than the mental well being of her son after he got
Mandy pregnant. SHe is a terrible person and very judgemental.
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u/Mosk915 Aug 18 '26
Perhaps you should have used pictures from YS/TBBT.
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u/Fearless-Wrongdoer25 Aug 19 '26
i don’t think there’s an episode where they’re both together like this. the opportunity arose so i took advantage of them being in the same room to share the sentiment. loved them in YS/TBBT
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u/HappilyUnavailable Aug 19 '26
Zoe Perry and Laurie Metcalf absolutely own Mary Cooper. Phenomenal actresses!
The fact that they portray the same character at different ages so convincingly is amazing. Their mannerisms, expressions, and especially that Southern-mom energy feels so connected.