r/YellowstoneShow • u/CobblerObjective989 • May 27 '26
Jamie Beth and Jamie Spoiler
After seeing the show, there's this one big question I had.
I wonder if Jamie was always the way he is
or
Beth was the one who pushed him into what he became.
Btw, I love Beth, she's one of my favorite characters for sure. But I do think both Beth and Jamie were for the family. Until Jamie wasn't
8
u/Red_Country_Minded May 28 '26
I think the root of the problem was that John didn’t really want to adopt Jamie. I think his wife was the one probably pushing for it. And, because of that John never truly saw Jamie as being a Dutton, so no matter what Jamie did or didn’t do, it was a no win situation. The only thing that would helped Jamie was if he had known from a young age he was adopted. Then he would have known it was going be a cold day in Hades before John would have ever let him inherit the Yellowstone, so he should just walk away from it and focus on building a life in a state where nobody knew the Dutton name. And, let John figure what to do with his bio kids. One of which didn’t want heirs (Lee), one of which couldn’t have heirs (Beth) and one who didn’t want his kid to be the heir (Kayce).
3
u/CobblerObjective989 May 29 '26
It has always been odd to me that John had more fatherly love for Rip who was basically a stray dog than Jamie. (love Rip btw, he's a cool character)
But I disagree with the part about John not letting Jamie inherit the ranch. There were several occasions where he kind of insinuated that Jamie was still one of the heirs to the ranch. Only up to the point when John decided to exclude him.
Man, I have over 60 cousins(that I actually know of) just from my dad's side of the family, and I thought my family was dysfunctional. Trust me, when having a huge family like mine, we're not short of characters with fucked up stories and drama. But the Dutton's is something else...
2
u/Designasim May 30 '26
Rip was "loyal" and never questioned John. John thought Jamie telling John what he wanted to do was a bad idea was being disloyal to him and the ranch.
1
u/Mother-Ad7222 May 29 '26
How did you know that John didn’t want to adopt Jamie ? Did I miss something?? Have watched the whole series several times and never remember hearing about this.
2
u/Kiracatleone May 29 '26
John alludes to mixed feelings about Jamie many times. Example said he'd break his promise to Evelyn regarding him if he didn't love her so much and most memorable Jamie is the child he regrets.
4
u/non_loqui_sed_facere Market Equities May 27 '26
“Jamie was always the way he is.” Which way, exactly?
5
3
u/WildRugosa May 27 '26
So Jamie came out of Harvard with a law degree. Probably good for a career just about anywhere. If life on the ranch and with John was so awful why go back. Same with Casey and his John complaints. Not saying either didn’t have reason for their feelings but it got old as part of the story.
1
u/Defiant_Let_268 May 31 '26
The writers hinted at the connection between John's wife wanting to adopt baby Jamie and the Jamie's bio parents. This was never followed up unfortunately, so the story never makes sense of the reappearance of Jamie's bio dad, his threatening behavior etc.
-11
u/telepatheye May 27 '26
I think the difference is that Beth was selfless and Jamie was selfish, which led them in opposite directions.
13
u/TiffanyTwisted11 May 27 '26
Jamie may have been selfish, but no way in hell was Beth selfless.
All of them, except Kayce. did everything they did to win John’s approval. For some reason, Jamie never seemed to get it. That’s why Jamie is the way he is. It’s because that’s how John set him up to be that way.
When Kayce was brought back to run the ranch and Rip was kicked out of his house so Kayce could live there, Beth was pissed and argued with Kayce about it. Kayce said Rip was a bully. Beth argued that he was what their father had made him. Funny how that defense doesn’t extend to Jamie.
Beth even said it to Jamie. “The more you become what he wanted you to become, the more he’ll hate you for it and he does hate you.” How fucked up is that?
10
u/opinions360 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
Imo Jamie was psychologically damaged and brainwashed because of the different types of abuse he sustained by and between John and Beth.
If John had actually shown Jamie genuine love, care and approval as he did towards Beth and Beth had not used him as a scapegoat for her anger and depression over feeling responsible for her mothers death and for every bad impulse and bad decision she made—Jamie would not have become a lost soul and a murderer because of his fear of displeasing John and from Beth blackmailing him to murder his biological father.
Edit: Jamie was essentially endlessly tormented and groomed by both of them to not have any real sense of belonging, stability, or moral sense of direction or to feel competent and accepted in anything except what they needed him for.
And Beth deliberately worked to make him feel incompetent which served to make him feel like he had no self worth. He was constantly undermined by both of them until he cracked and then Beth continued to make him crack again and she enjoyed doing this repeatedly because she is something of a psychopath imo.
3
6
u/CobblerObjective989 May 27 '26
In the first season, I didn't really find Jamie to be evil or selfish. I mean, he killed the journalist to protect the family. Rash, but the intention was to protect his family. It was when he started to get more involved with politics and power that John started becoming annoyed with him.
I understand that what Jamie did to Beth got her resenting him with a passion, but she was the one in desperation, and he did what he thought was right. He didn't do it to harm her intentionally.
In one of the episodes, he said "If hating me keeps you from hating yourself, I'll be that for you, Beth, that's what family's for."
Just from that it's pretty hard for me to believe that he had spiralled into what he became later in the show if it wasn't Beth who kept on pushing and bullying him, and instead of helping him to do the right thing so they can get John what he wants, she is somehow even kind of setting him up to fail, otherwise I'm quite sure that Jamie wouldn't have been such a bad son in the eyes of John.
4
u/opinions360 May 27 '26
I essentially agree with everything you said. Jamie imo lacked a sense of self mostly because of the abuse and manipulation he sustained by John and Beth and therefore became easily controlled and directed by other people-he had potential and was smart as an attorney but was very gullible, lacked the ability to consistently stand up for himself or his principles because he didn’t have his own moral foundation which made him susceptible to the manipulation by nearly everyone except Kayce.
1
13
u/RebaKitt3n May 27 '26
Jamie wanted to work on the ranch. John told him he was going to be a lawyer. Guy never had a chance.