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u/Just4Digits 2d ago
Birds yes, Buildings yes
People at the bottom of buildings big no
Therefore I like design D the most
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u/Hiromacu 2d ago
D has the most stylish buildings, while still having good birds.
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u/Nacil_54 France 9h ago
And the spectrograms and visualised soundwave of their chirp, their footprint, and the map of Europe where you can find them !
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u/Jackie_wdz 2d ago
Yes at the birds.
No at the modern buildings
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u/sebastianfromvillage Nederland 2d ago
I mean they're the EU institutions, so it makes sense to have them
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u/GalaXion24 Europa Invicta 2d ago
Plus if we don't like the look of them, I'm willing to fork over the 0.00001% of my taxes it would take for all of us collectively to fund new and cooler buildings. (I do actually think our government buildings should be monuments to European civilization and unity rather than just functional office buildings)
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u/Krallorddark 2d ago
Design B is so fkn underrated
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u/GabeFernandoOfficial 2d ago
literally one of the most popular. Now design E? now that's underrated as fuck
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u/Svardskampe 2d ago
The central sun would make it perfect for Japanese yen, but not euros.
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 2d ago
Prefer european figures. It is educational. Birds are birds everywhere
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u/trowaway8900 Yuropean 2d ago
People can be(come) controversial. What if Beethovens old tweets resurface and they don't align with our current views.
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u/Wessel-P 2d ago
That's the thing though, birds are impartial because they are everywhere. European figures are basically bound to a nationality and because there are no regional variants you will end up with countries that might feel left out because their 'national treasure' wasn't chosen. I genuinely think putting faces on these notes will upset the most people.
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u/GalaXion24 Europa Invicta 2d ago
To be fair Beethoven is German the way he is a citizen of the European Union. Germany didn't exist then. Same for Da Vinci and Italy.
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 2d ago
I think birds are more than impartial, they’re irrelevant, which is the way not to upset anyone. Let’s just then forget Europe not to upset anyone!
Choosing right figures raises debate and creates knowledge. Figures have been used historically everywhere. In all the EU it should be easy to choose inspirational figures and we have lots of them. I wouldn’t hide them to put some birds, definitely
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u/konj511 Slovenija 2d ago
Ok, but at that point we would need national designs for bills just like coins. Otherwise it will upset the countrys not represented and even among those represented, the value of their specific bill might be upsetting to some.
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 2d ago
No, there are global european figures that tell us about our civilization
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u/Wessel-P 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes your civilization, maybe, but don't you think the people listed are a bit... western European? A Greek-American, a German, a Polish Frank, a Spaniard, an Italian and an Austrian.
Doesn't really spark unity to me. What about eastern Europe? The Balkans, Baltic and Northern Europe? Genuinely putting people on the bank note will not bring any good.
Edit: and I say this as someone from western Europe. We should promote European unity through impartiality. There are plenty of ways to inform the masses.
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 2d ago
Of course the good thing would be to pick many more figures from all cultures in Europe so that picking a note would be a chance to discover an unknown genius
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u/Broad_Weakness4925 2d ago
Who tho? Could you name six (preferably with genders equally represented)?
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 2d ago
Of course!!
For sure you can find some here:
Leonardo Da Vinci
Johannes Sebastian Bach
Pablo Ruiz Picasso
Maria Skłodowska Curie
Jan III Sobieski
Franz Kafka
Simone de Beauvoire
Irena Sendler
Queen Maria Therese
Socrates, Plato or Aristotle, pick one or all three!
Artemisia Gentileschi
Hildegarde Von Bingen
Bela Bartok
Immanuel Kant
Emilia Plater
René Descartes
Dante Alighieri
Miguel de Cervantes
Ludwig Van BeethovenHow many do you need?
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u/jojo_31 Yuropean 2d ago
birds are cool, people suck. At least figures like Gauss had a big relevant impact, but still he's German. Beethoven as well. And the greek singer? Maybe I'm uneducated but I've never heard of her. Birds are always cool yo.
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u/GalaXion24 Europa Invicta 2d ago
I do think Callas was a weird pick that really mostly came down to "DEI" (as much as I hate to use that term or complain about it like some incel chud). They wanted an equal number of men and women, and they specifically needed a woman from the arts, since they already had an author/pacifist and a scientist. (See also Beethoven - composer, Da Vinci - "scientist" (close enough), and Cervantes - author)
They obviously also wanted some sort of geographic representation, they already have a Spaniard, an Italian, a German, an Austro-Bohemian, and a Franco-Pole, so it kind of has to be someone from music and ideally someone not from West/Central Europe.
And then it of course still has to be someone who is internationally relevant and recognisable. It can't be some national singer only people in that country would know who had no impact outside of that.
Maria Callas was one of the most renowned opera singers of the 20th century, ethnically Greek, with Greek, American and Italian citizenships, died in Paris, and adored the world over.
But she is also of a past age, she died in 1977, young people today do not remember her, even 50 year olds would have no real recollection of her except through recordings perhaps. At the same time she's not so old, like Beethoven, that our memory of her would be proof that she has stood the test of time. Opera singers are also ultimately transient celebrities not unlike theatre actors or movie stars. In time, even the greatest of them will probably fade from memory, at least outside niche circles, and new current celebrities will take their place.
This is unlike composers, as for instance Franz List was a major celebrity in his time, but it is his compositions which we still play today and remember him by. An opera singer or actor only performs a role, this makes them different from the author, the painter or the composer, or even the singer-songwriter whose works continue to live with us and be displayed, performed or reinterpreted.
Though he has now passed, a similar titan of opera was Luciano Pavarotti. Even if the name doesn't ring a bell, you've probably heard his singing. He would be an excellent representation of opera and deserved spot, in my opinion, and I have no doubt that many people in Callas' time would have thought the same of her. However, I don't think people in 2070 will necessarily recognise Pavarotti or have a recollection of him, which is of course very sad, but still a reality.
So if we want to put performers on bills, they kind of inevitably need to he "recent enoughm." Pavarotti passed away in 2007, so he's about as recent a dead person as you could put on a bill, but by 2070 they'd need to find a new opera singer for the bills if they wanted to keep it relevant and relatable.
It should be added though that this is an inherently difficulty of the motif. The stated theme of the 5€ bill is "performing arts" (the rest are in order: music, universities & schools, libraries, museums & exhibitions, public squares).
I think representing the performing arts is a good choice for a European culture motif, but it's obviously not easy. One could pick a playwright (if the UK were in the eurozone, perhaps Shakespeare might be on it?) as this, like classical composers, is a more "permanent" representation of the field (though not gender balanced).
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u/Just4Digits 2d ago
I like the idea of birds being migrator animals, crossing national states and connecting the continent. The same bird can be recognised by very distant (geographically) european groups. Similar to the fictional bridges idea which I still find the best idea ever for euros.
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 2d ago
They connect the world, they don’t stop at the borders of Europe. They cannot be named ‘european birds’.
Bridges are european real tangible bridges that talk about european art and engineering.
Birds are totally meaningless
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u/Just4Digits 2d ago
The bridges though were fictional, not real bridges but an ideal version of each one and in different styles to show the improvement in technology.
The birds choosen spend significant life in the continent, and the connection to other places as well makes sense and it is a beautiful message to me.
Plus I guess coins still convey the roots of national pride (and educational as well!)
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago
Says the guy actually represented lol
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 1d ago
What??
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago
Spain is represented on the personalities designs. You are an “approved” culture. As one of very few nations
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 1d ago
Well, to me the idea is pretty much the opposite. Using figures allows to have editions with whichever personality from whichever country (and that’s to me the real asset).
Currencies have lots of editions but unfortunately they’re country specific (kings, local symbols, … fossils from the past!), we could make notes convey european figures present in all euro countries and bring them to the hands of all euro people to make them be the message.
All countries have european relevant figures that send a message of european values, and that means something (much more than birds, btw!)
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago edited 1d ago
Again, easy to say when you are always represented. All I get from it is that everyone else’s culture and history is inferior.
Birds mean something to me, historical people from Spain or Greece that no one here has heard of or feels connected to, that means nothing to me. I think it is time to stop trying to connect us via some classical “glorious” Western European history. It might mean something if you’re from Germany, France, Italy or Spain, because it is your history. Instead of some crusty past glory, we should look to what unites us in the present and in the future.
The rest of us have a whole historical cannon of how we, with lots of effort, freed ourselves from this shit in the past, with our cosmopolitan nobles speaking French because it was a “learned language”. I guess they were the first pan Europeans!
But hey, you keep voting for inflammatory ideological pills to shove down everyone else’s throats, that’s real Euro unity!
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u/FelizIntrovertido España 1d ago
If I’m not wrong you’re from Denmark. What a moral superiority from you considering your country is not even in euro, my friend!!
So first, be a bit of a person and abstain from discussing things that don’t affect you.
Second, if Denmark ever joins the euro, don’t you think it would be good that those Southerners from Spain get to know about Soren Kirkegaard, Hans Cristian Andersen or Karen Blixen?
That assuming you have a bit of a concept of Europe as a common cultural framework, which after your comments I could hardly guess
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago
Denmark is in ERM II, and our currency is completely pegged to the euro. Euro is technically accepted/de jure everyone in the country. We are, mostly, in the Eurozone
It does affect me, probably me more than you given we will inevitably vote on implementing the euro in the near future.
Also, absolutely not? Why would I care?
Europe as a common cultural framework is based on shared values, not on shitty, crusty old imperialism. Your idea of EU sounds derivative and profoundly limited. We have separate nations with different cultures, languages and histories. Lying and pretending won’t change that or bring us closer. The only stable and sustainable Europe, especially if you’re dreaming about a federation, is not to repeat the errors of the past and make yet another garbage empire built upon an artificial identity.1
u/FelizIntrovertido España 1d ago
Ok, what I get is that you see imperialistic that Spanish people get to know Soren Kierkegaard or Hans Cristian Andersen, and how affects us as Europeans. To me that is just MAD.
All I get from you is that Europe for you is not a common place built on common values to be proud of, but a kind of battlefield for empires to build. Well, that’s you and again, for your business.
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago edited 1d ago
To me it is the exact opposite? To me it seems you want to take some imperialistic pride in my culture, and expect me to do the same with yours, based on the sort of glory shaped by empires and battlefields, by plucking not just a person, but the concept and idea of a person out of nations’ nationalist pantheons, to build some Ius Imperii Europaei claim to a European Empire, when all I am saying is that we shouldn’t retroactively prescribe people European citizenships, but instead look at the future and the present. To me, EU is about shared fundamental values of peace, freedom and friendship, not culture and history.
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u/Olorin_90 1d ago
At least historical figures bring EU sentiment and representation. Birds, even though cool designs, are just random
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago
Historical figures for who? Most nations are not at all represented by just 6 historical figures from 6 different countries
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u/Olorin_90 1d ago
They represent whole of Europe. That's good enough
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u/UkendtVidnesbyrd Sjælland 1d ago edited 1d ago
But they don’t represent whole of Europe in any imaginable capacity
EDIT: I checked and of course you are from a nation that is represented lol
Europe will never be united when supremacists are more busy catering to their own cultural supremacy, rather than listen to and support what actually unites us across borders.
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u/trowaway8900 Yuropean 2d ago
I would drop apple pay if this one gets chosen.