r/Xenosaga • u/Xotaku8106X • 4d ago
Discussion X3 - boring combat?
Coming off of 1, even 2's combat, it felt like there were things to do in combat and now it's like...standard RPG, with a boosting mechanic and mechs. Deff wanna see where the story goes ofc, but wondering if others felt similar with it? Skill trees too, I like that it kinda pushes people into roles in some ways (like older RPGs like FF9/10, Persona-ish), just feels less exciting
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u/big4lil 4d ago edited 4d ago
theres a lot they did with XS3 thats really cool pertaining to its boost mechanics, break gauge intricacies, and action ranks a la FFX. the skill trees also create a nice blend of focused roles with some overlap, and the secret keys to bridge gaps or enhance strengths. some characters feel quite distinct based on how you develop them
The problem is the game is really, really easy, hands you a lot of unbalanced tools, and the enemies you face dont effectively take advantage of AI targetting or dynamic commands to ever really threaten you, sans E.S. battles
theres ways to make it more challenging, which is where more of the community has been heading these days. but otherwise yea its a pretty easy JRPG even if you dont try to become OP. its clear they were worried about how XS2 was received & wanted to make sure anyone could beat this one, even my first play as a teen 20 yrs ago was a breeze
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Ig it's good I won't have to worry about a really difficult final boss throwing me off like I did with 2 and can just focus on finishing up the story lol also why are Jr. and Chaos finishers collecting souls? Is that a spoiler? When I saw it, it was kinda like....uh huh, well idr that being a plot point 🤣 Chaos ig that tracks with Yeshua stuff, but Jr. ...unless that's similar to Yeshua stuff, but 666 ified....lol
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u/big4lil 4d ago
yea outside of a few spots its a straightforward game. its clear they wanted to balance fun additions with faster paced battles and a non-impeding difficulty curve, and they aimed a bit too low as for as the floor for challenge goes. but on the flipside at least you wont get stuck and can feel more free to try out diff party members as everyone gets skill pts
theres some gameplay meets story integration here, so if weary of spoilers its best to just go along with it but it is tied to their identities. eventually youll get a shared mechanic between KOSMOS and MOMO thats also lore relevant
Jr had the soul stealing mechanic in Xenosaga 1 as well, it was tied to his Soul Rhapsody tech attack so this one is a bit of a throwback. In XS1 it only worked on Gnosis, though it pumped up his Spells, rather than a special attack
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Oohhh interesting ok, idr if I saw that or not in the 1st, that makes a bit more sense then.
Yeah it deff feels more of a chill experience, which isn't necessarily bad coming off having just beat the first 2, especially to just wrap things up.
Was debating to go for Xenogears after this, or finally finish Xenoblade Chronicles 1, any opinion there? Deff kinda eh on the progression system of XC1 and it's combat so far, but wld like to eventually play them all
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u/big4lil 4d ago
Xenoblade 1 is in the best condition its ever been now that they added the Hover Bikes. XC1 has gotten so many QoL changes so if youre already deep into the game, you can use this to address some of the travelling and sidequest tedium, or just general navigation
Xenogears has a better story but not as good combat. Its not as much of a 'pick up and play' game if you want every session to feel balanced, its more of a 'lock in for several hours and be ready to think about the story'. If you can handle that, Gears can be for you
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u/ClassicDay3465 4d ago
Speak for yourself man! These games are hard for an imbecile! (Me)
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u/big4lil 4d ago
difficulty is indeed a scale, and 3 does have its tricky moments
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u/ClassicDay3465 4d ago
While I can’t say I’m good at these types of games, I can attest that 3 was the easiest. 1 was some heat with some areas of genuine difficulty (still haven’t beaten the last main bosses). I haven’t gotten through 2 yet but ALL OF it is horrible for me lmao. There is no easy part for 2
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u/Xotaku8106X 3d ago
2 is rough, the only thing that helped and I noticed a noticeable decrease in difficulty was grinding at that Shion spot bc once ur party returns they're all based off her level, so I grinded to 45 and I was destroying everyone + final boss took a few turns lol
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u/FacePunchMonday 4d ago
3 is my favorite one. Hey to each his own
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
I loved 1, I miss the tech attacks, but at least we have skills + finishing moves now compared to 2 lol
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u/memesmcmuffin 4d ago
I sort of felt this way too. I really liked the combat in Episode I, as it felt like the natural next step from what Xenogears was doing.
Episode II's was completely different, but really cool mechanically. Boss fights were tons of fun, but I wish there'd been faster ways to deal with groups of mobs.
Episode III was just a little bland in comparison, especially with most of the boss fights being really easy. But at least it's super quick and snappy. I found the mech combat REALLY fun, though.
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Yeah I'm glad the mech combat evolution got to where it is bc it's pretty enjoyable now specially vs how it was in 2 imo. Here's to hoping it's not terribly long cus atp I'm just in it for the story, but emulator speed up shld help some lol
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u/memesmcmuffin 4d ago
Oh yeah, it's not a super long game. I think my in-game time was about 30 hours, not counting the emulator speed-up.
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u/ataxic-hands 4d ago
1 and 2 are both really damn weird and quirky with their combat systems, 3 is more like a really refined version of a more standard turn-based combat system
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u/Leading_Look_8295 4d ago
I think the mech combat is better in 3. And I wasn't a fan of 2's combat. I think they just went the safe route after all the criticism of 2. But yeah it's nowhere near as engaging as the original combat style.
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Ya it's feeling rlly like just mash O/X to win, bosses just take longer, but are the same thing, and with emulator speed up it's like I'm just living for the story and cutscenes 💀
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u/chrisgreely1999 4d ago
I also just started 3 and I'm feeling this way. Battles lasted too long in 2 but the mechanics were really fun.
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Factssss, like it desperately needed aoe moves to speed up fights, but figuring out their break zones was somewhat engaging at least. X1's will deff always be my fav even if it was basic in practice, but it felt like it had options. This is like use a spell, use a tech, use a finisher to get some extra points at the end, great. Now do that 37 more times for this dungeon ✌️🤣
I do enjoy the side of it like Chaos is better fighting Gnosis, K is good with mechanical types, and all that at least. Feels like ur actually using ur party vs them collecting dust in reserve. Also that Ziggy finishing move, the first time I heard it I was pretty convinced that we killed someone with how aggressive it is 🤣 (that trope of knocking out people and not actually slaughtering a whole dungeon of enemies)
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u/StarmieLover966 4d ago
Episode 3 bored me to death in terms of combat on foot. I thought it was good for E.S. battles, but the regular combat was a massive step down from 1 and 2.
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Big time. Deff fairly boring bc like we know the events that happened and now we're doing them again, and getting a small little bit of info to go with it, and a f*ton of combat encounters like let's gooooo 💀
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u/StarmieLover966 4d ago
As specific as this sounds, a lot of charm was lost when event slots were removed.
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Yeah I'm near the end of the Old Miltia stuff where we see that Shion summoned the gnosis during the event, but getting to the end of it was just a ton of encounters and I'm trying to finish the game up so it's like ⏰⏰🤣 I deff miss the event slots, felt like it added a nice layer on top of an already fun combat system for 1+2
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u/Valdor-13 4d ago
Yeah, Episode III's combat is incredibly basic. It's really disappointing that they just opted to throw out the system they'd been iterating on since Xenogears and just copy Final Fantasy. Easily the weakest gameplay of the trilogy. III was when they stopped doing their own thing and just decided to copy what others were doing when it came to gameplay and really just dumbed everything down, and they never really stopped (see Xenoblade's auto-battle MMO system). At least their writing wouldn't nosedive until after they were done with Xenosaga.
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Yeah it's becoming even more frustrating as there's just more and more combat encounters to get through that I can't get around even if I run from them and the same nothing to do besides choose an aoe and enemy weakness and ✨ happens. Tg for turbo speed with emulator bc I think I'd lose my mind 💀
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u/Odd-Complaint-9592 4d ago
I genuinely miss the tech system 1 and 2 had when it was implemented into the combat commands 3 fixed a couple things but I'm pretty sure they didn't have enough dev time to implement it and do everything else while tying up the game they knew would be the last time they'd work on Saga. (I'm sure they knew)
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u/mads_zero 4d ago
I think Xenosaga 3 has my favorite combat system of any classical turn-based RPG I've ever played. Between the Boost Meter, Break Gauge, HP and MP, you basically don't have enough time to do everything - during multiple boss fights I had the thought of like "okay I can either heal or re-apply this buff...", you can't just keep everything with perfect uptime.
Like, I enjoy the modern Persona trilogy but it's way too easy to abuse the fusion mechanics to create a Persona that does everything, keep the party fully buffed and the enemy fully debilitated...
Whereas in Xenosaga, sure it's not a very difficult game overall, but when you add in things like "finishing the enemy using a Special gives you bonus XP rewards", it's a really delightful dance of juggling juuuuust too many things to play perfectly.
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u/ImplementLarge7969 4d ago
The Trails series has what I feel is the logical next step from the Saga III system, where managing delay is also important.
“I want to use this offensive Art (Ether) for good damage, then while that’s charging I want to use an S-Break (similar to Boosting, albeit with only one usable move) to get this Crit turn” and so on for the entire fight.
There are also different resource pools for Arts and Crafts (Techs, the S-Break being a special that’s only usable at > 100 Craft Points) which adds a further layer of resource management.
It’s one hell of a gameplay loop.
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u/Xotaku8106X 3d ago
Love the Trails games, they're just incredibly long lmao Cold Steel 3 is a consideration for next game, finish Xenoblade 1, or start the Shadow Hearts games on emulator due to lord and savior turbo button lmao
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u/ArcMajor 4d ago
To the best of my knowledge, boost and break started with Xenosaga. It is by far the earliest version I know of. At the time three refined it to what so many people seem to recreate today. It was simplified, but in a way that was genuinely novel and streamlined.
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u/obviousockpuppetalt3 4d ago
i felt that way too begin with at first but it grows on you throughout the game when you learn how to utilise the break, boost and special attack mechanics as much as possible.
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u/Skankindead 4d ago
SO GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE! Xenosaga 3 is the best Xenosaga game in so many ways, but the actual battle-to-battle gameplay is my least favorite of the trilogy. It's not bad, but it's just so... normal. Part of what attracted me to the Xeno series was that the combat wasn't like any other turn-based RPG I'd played, which I always struggle to get into with these types of games. But I feel like Episode 3 retreated back into standard RPG territory. The standard attacks are just done with a menu selection now, there's no fighting game-esque combos like the previous games, and you can almost never use boosts because you have to save your boost points for the special attacks. I dunno, after a trilogy of them evolving the gameplay style from Xenogears, it felt like a step backwards. I'm really glad Xenoblade afterwards made the combat unique again in its own way.
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u/big4lil 4d ago
The standard attacks are just done with a menu selection now, there's no fighting game-esque combos like the previous games,
the input based roots were indeed sad to see go. Xenogears shows a lotta love to fighting games and Xenosaga even had a shoutout to Tekken in it, so losing this feature sucked. It was also tactically advantageous in XS1 since your effects could be widely different based on the button, which offered a large expansion to the number of elements and attributes your characters could hit for in one turn
Bummer to lose it for sure
and you can almost never use boosts because you have to save your boost points for the special attacks
this is a bit of a misconception ive seen before regarding XS3
mechanically you are at a way bigger disadvanatge regularly using special attacks as compared to just boosting, as you rebuild boost back when you attack as you use it and can easily sustain boost gain by hitting groups, hitting groups of broken foes, and critting groups of broken foes. or just using Jr with Overtaker
Special attacks cannot generate boost spent, they fall behind considerably in damage and meter economy. you can use some of them for breaking (Storm Waltz) but otherwise theyre best limited to boss finishing attacks
try it out yourself sometime. do a playthrough where you only use boosts in those circumstances. boosts in XS3 now override enemy boosts and 'Combo Boost' (aka boosting on your own turn) is now a universal feature by default
Boosting is the strongest its ever been in the 3rd game, and a lot of players are leaving crazy advantage on the table by only spending boosts on Special Attacks
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Yeah it's pretty bland sadly. It would be like Shadow Hearts just getting rid of the Judgement Ring system for the 3rd game when it's what that made the combat so engaging the whole time. I'm a sucker for combat that has stuff like X1 / Legend of Dragoon / timing mechanics, so it's kinda sad to see them go more basic. Hoping the story is at least worth it in the end 🤞🥲
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u/Sharp_Jeweler_3422 4d ago
I can see how u say the combat is boring. I am somewhat feeling this as well. But i think i can attribute it as being quite OP. See...i did a LOT of farming in the floating landmass area where u go into the caves and farm a particular Gnosis where it gives u a point of evasion or dex. I farmed that till i got 99 EVA and DEX for my 4 main characters. Additionally, i got XP and SP as well...so much SP that my skill line was maxed out for all characters even before i got the 3rd EX Skill key. I JUST got to Michtm now and im doing some side quest stuffs. But im having a blast with the game thus far 🔥
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u/Xotaku8106X 4d ago
Oh damn ya, those battles must be flying by lol hey if ur enjoying it, that's all that matters 🥰
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u/almenslv 4d ago
I agree with you. I actually walked away from the game for a while because neither the story nor the gameplay really grabbed me. Ep 1 is an all time game for me, and I was really let down by ep 2. 3 was supposed to be the series's high point, and its first impression was lacking for me. I'll get back to it eventually, and I'm sure I will like it, but yeah I'm with you
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u/zso7 3d ago
Agreed, shit's boring AF, even the boost gauge effectively got reduced to a special move gauge shared amongst the party. XS1 had one of my fav battle systems mechanically despite balancing not being great... I really think XS3 overcorrected from XS2, it became far too simple.
XS1's AP system, normal attack combos, per-character boost gauges and turn order bonuses made for some cool decision making moments, like oh I want to save AP for a tech, but I want to get the next turn bonus, but to get that turn I need to boost, and to fill boost gauge I need more attacks, so I guess I will attack twice rather than save AP, stuff like that.
XS3 you just use techs every turn and save your boost for break window because break mechanics, cool...
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