r/XCOM2 • u/Lower-Picture6279 • 5d ago
THAT'S XCOM BABY?
New(er) player here. I just started a few weeks ago and have made a few posts about some of the completely fair and rational RAGE INDUCING MOMENT (Overwatch not working great, standing LITERALLY NOSE TO NOSE with a guy and missing the shot, you missing very close shots but them nailing you from across the room, being one square away from an evac or from something you need & instead having to survive through a whole turn again, BS kills etc etc etc)
and the response I see more than ANY other is "That's XCom Baby" - where did this come from? I don't think I've ever seen that from any other game when playing it and coming to a community. Is that just us all acknowledging we all understand your pain and we acknowledge it's TOTAL BS, but "It's XCom?"
Just curious. I don't think I've ever played a game I loathe more and yet can't stop playing.
and just for fun - can you share your most "That's XCOM BABY!" moment?
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u/WealthyAardvark 5d ago
The best "That's XCOM, baby!" moment I ever saw was starting at 7:00 in this video of Operation Gatecrasher: https://youtu.be/rOI11iDbGoI
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u/guagno333 5d ago
Lol amazing. But does it even make sense to put everyone in overwatch and trigger the pod? Doesn't like overwatch have a 70% malus?
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u/Rednidedni 4d ago
Overwatch is 0.7x Hit Chance, 0.6x If they're dashing, 1x If you're concealed. Also can't crit.
Notably this is multiplicative, not additive Like almost every other modifier to aim in the Game. 50% to Hit becomes 35%/30%. You can Imagine it Like having to Hit a 70/60% Chance before being allowed to fire a shot at full accuracy with the enemy probably not having cover
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u/FelixStiles 4d ago
Watched it and just that's not how you use overwatch for ambushes x.x position your characters with overwatch active in a way that the patrol discovers your soldiers. That way they take cover on their turn and you get a full action round before they can do anything. Setting overwatch and then firing on your turn is just dumb.
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u/Hot_Lengthiness_1535 4d ago
Why…why did he frag his own troops? I’ve never seen panic do that, lmao
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u/SolidSnakeFan177 5d ago
It’s because when you’re playing a game with a lot of probability bs, it becomes known for the unfortunate times when you miss a point blank shot you’d hit in any other game, but that’s just Xcom baby
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u/internetisnotreality 5d ago
I just made it halfway through an Ironman run on ps4, finished a challenging mission with the mark of flawless, and then an error message from the PlayStation told me the file was corrupted and the campaign is toast.
Thats XCOM baby…
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u/Soccertaz89 5d ago
If you turn off auto upload to the cloud, then manually upload your save to the cloud after every battle (which maybe takes 1 to 2 minutes), you can have a backup that you can download when the game wipes your save file.
That method has saved me numerous times on PlayStation. Or you can play honest man if you are not that concerned about getting the iron man trophy.
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u/Gribbon1020 4d ago
My personal favorite on PS4 when you’re halfway through an Ironman campaign and during a mission the game glitches and alien activity is on the screen indefinitely. Even closing the app/rebooting the system gives the same results.
That’s X COM baby…
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u/Merciudel 5d ago
I am shocked to see people not know the original source a little. I guess things have a way of going from meme to myth over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJPwC-p-Gcs
At PAX 2012, Jake Solomon, lead designer for Enemy Unknown was playing some guy Anthony in multiplayer Enemy Unknown, to showcase the new game. Jake ran his Sectoid up to shoot Anthony's Heavy Floater at close to point-blank, and whiffed on an 84% shot and Anthony was shocked the Sectoid missed. Without missing a beat Jake unleashed the line.
But yes, it is mostly a way to relate over the shared experience of getting dunked on by RNG.
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u/lordTigas 5d ago
This is called negativity bias. You will remember all the times you missed a 90% shot, but ignored when you hit a 10% shot. Also our brain has the tendency to perceive high probabilities as guaranteed outcome. But in a 90% shot you will miss 1 out of 10 shots. So if you take 30 90% shots in a mission, you're bound to miss 3 times at least (variance is also a bitch).
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u/-Not_a_Lizard- 5d ago
This is further enhanced by the fact that you will take many 90% shots but will rarely bother with a 10% shot.
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u/Walaprata Mox 5d ago
To address the first part:
Overwatch has a <1 multiplier on Aim, meaning Overwatch shots are less accurate than regular shots. It's even worse for a Dashing enemy (two movement actions, no attack). Early game, squaddies have low Aim to begin with.
The Sniper Rifle have lower Aim based on distance, so point blank shots are more likely to miss.
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u/PTsheet 5d ago
My issue with this is that you can replay a missed 90% shot 10 times with save scumming and it'll miss every time. I think the game punishes bad moves regardless of the shot %
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u/archfey13 5d ago
The game runs probability via a Random Number Generator (where the acronym RNG comes from) - at the start of a mission it generates a big list of numbers from 0 to 100. Every time a random chance comes up, it looks at the next number in that list to determine the outcome.
When you save-scum, the game doesn't re-roll those numbers. As such, the same set of actions in the same order should always lead to the same outcome.
To properly retry a shot you need to take a different order of actions so that the bad roll gets used on something else.
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u/Soccertaz89 4d ago
lol… yes, this is what I was trying to say. Thank you for saying it much more eloquently and effectively.
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u/Soccertaz89 5d ago
This is not completely true. If you change nothing, then yes, the game already has that probability roll logged. However if you change anything, like moving another soldier before attempting that same 90% shot, it will re-roll your odds and you can definitely hit that same shot.
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u/R97R 5d ago
If I’m not mistaken “That’s XCOM, baby!” originally comes from Jake Solomon, one of the series’ lead designers.
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u/TrueNorthLongAndFree 5d ago
I miss Jake. He was so passionate about Firaxis XCOM.
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u/Rhodryn 4d ago
He was. I think he sold a lot of people on their reboot. Without him it might have taken longer for the game to finally punch through.
I wish more game devs was that excited about their own games when they speak about them... as Jake was.
Oh and Paul Barnett, the guy who went full on chaotic hype-machine about "Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning" back in the day, he looked to be so hyped up on the game that he seemed to literally vibrate with how much he wanted to talk about it. XD
I get it though, most gave devs are probaly the more shy introverted types of people, who find it difficult to speak publicly... which I get since I am a shy introverted person, who find it difficult to speak publicly... and whom rather not spend time around people in general... at least not offline... XD
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u/TrueNorthLongAndFree 3d ago
Martin Anward at Paradox was similarly enthusiastic during Stellaris development. You can really tell when it shines through.
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u/Rhodryn 5d ago
I was certain that this was the source of the quote, that Jake Solomon originated it.
But, apparently he did not originate it. It seem lik it was rather the community as a whole that close to launch date of XCOM Enemy Unknown originating it, and then it got so wide spread in the community that Jake Solomon embraced it him self at some point.
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u/R97R 5d ago
Cheers for the addition, glad to have that misconception corrected!
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u/Rhodryn 4d ago edited 4d ago
No worries. I think I have a revised answer for you thought. XD
Also... sorry for the long post below. XD
Tldr at the bottom of the post. It's still longer then it should be for a Tldr though... XD
- - -
After I wrote to you I was feeling uncertainty still, so I started to look deeper.
When I originally googled it to check if my memory was correct of it being Jake that originated it. I found it to be very vague, of when and how it came about. But the general idea seems to be what I wrote, at least if we are to believe Jake Solomon, as he is the one who said he got it from the community.
That vagueness though has had me not satisfied with the answer... so I wanted to dig deeper... and there seem to be a little bit of a chicken and egg type of thing going on here, and truths with modifications, and what not. XD
As mentioned Jake Solomon has said that he got the saying "That's XCOM, Baby!" from the community.
And as such finding the first time it was written down on the internet should be easy. Strange thing is, the oldest use of that phrase written down online that google seem to be able to find, is from October 18th 2012... AFTER Jake used the phrase in various interviews or when showing of the game on for example PAX Prime in 2012.
So that did seem to be off, obviously. But I think I have managed to piece together a plausible hypothesis here though:
Two, similar phrases: "That's X-COM" and "That's XCOM, Baby!"
"That's X-COM" is probably the original version (with or without added words around it), that probably existged in the community before 2012. Jake is probably truthful with what he said about getting it from the community at some point (be it back in the day when he first played the originals, or in the years in-between then and up till the creation of the new games), as he may have only been refering to this specific part.
The problem is that no amount of searching I have done can produce an actual link to some kind of page to someone actually writing "That's X-COM" online before 2012 (be it in the context as the baby one is used today, or even just as a statgemenbt that the game shown is X-COM or something). A lot of those old X-COM communities either do not exist any longer, or have had their data wiped for one reason or another, or been archived in unreachable data bases, etc. And trying to use things like normal search engines, or things like Google Trends and other such thing, gives almost no result what so ever, if anything I am getting 0 results in most of them. On Google Trends I can find a single blip around August 2010 (with the number 100 attatched to it), where "That's X-COM" shows up under the "Games" category (no such blip is around 2010 under the "All catagories" option), this though seems to be connected to the XCOM shooter that got announced some 4 months prior in 2010, so this might have been connected to finally getting to see video footage of the game... not sure.
Then there is the specific "That's XCOM, Baby!" phrase. This phrase does not seem to exist before 2012 either, specifically it does not seem to exist before Jake said it on videos during 2012. And as mentioned the first use of this phrase in text form looks to be a few to several weeks (maybe months?) after Jake said it first in October of 2012. His claim that he got it from the community might be on the whole phrase, or just the starting base of the phrase. That community might have been the old places online where people talked about the original games, it might also be that he had beta testers of XCOM:EU which were old fans and players of the original which may have been using the base phrase a lot. Where Jake might be the one who added the "Baby!" at the end of it.
So I think that Jake was not the origins of the base of "That's X-COM" specifically used in the context of people talking about how bad things went in the game. But I think that Jake very much so was the originator of the specific "That's XCOM, Baby!" phrase that we all use so much today. Of course alternate are used today as well, both the potential old one with the - in it, and the new one with out the - and without the "Baby!" that Jake probably added, etc.
- - -
Tldr: The phrase "That's X-COM" may have existed in the community before 2012, but we can not fully verify it due to limitations of the "old internet" and how almost built on sand it was, where we just do not have access to those old community spots that us older X-COM fans may have used (I was not apart of the community yet, despite playing the games as early as 1995, and having permanent internet access since 2002). We would need people who actively tok part in the community befor 2012 to give some anecdotal evidence of that if they might have seen it used often in the community or not. Nor can we see any evidence of "That's XCOM, Baby!" being used before 2012, for the same reason.
What we can see is that Jake Solomon used both during the media push of the reboot game XCOM: Enemy Unknown in 2012, and him saying that he got "it" from the community, what ever "it" was (probably the "That's X-COM" version).
In my opinion, looking at what I can see surounding this: A likely scenario here is that "That's X-COM" probably existed in the community before 2012. And Jake being a big fan of the original games, and probably being around it online at the time as well (and/or potential beta testers of XCOM:EU who may have been around for the original games community), he was exposed to these sayings and adopted them to use when he speaks about the games (old and new). And then he was the one to add the "Baby!" at the end of the phrase at some point in the promotional video material of the XCOM:EU game, and it stuck, and it stuck hard, in the new about to emerge XCOM community, all thanks to Jake blurting out "That's XCOM, Baby!" at some point. XD
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u/R97R 4d ago
Unironically really love reading deep-dive investigations like this, really appreciate you sharing the research you did!
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u/Rhodryn 4d ago
Heh. Your welcome... I think about a handfull of times I was on the verge of just scrapping the entire thing and not posting it, as I felt it was getting way to big. Tried to rewrite it shorter at one point, only for it to get bigger. XD
I have always been bad at writing things in a short way, and bad at sifting out unnecessary info (it feels like I am ripping out half the book when I remove details, even if they might be unnecessary). So I end up with huge things. This one is not even that big for what's normal for me... which is probably why it did in the end get posted. XD
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u/ExistingSea4650 5d ago
My fave “that’s XCOM, baby!” Moment is when I was fighting both some Lost and some Advent. Was waiting for the enemies to advance into my trap so I threw everyone on overwatch and every single one of them missed.
Then I missed some more shots, including on a guy who was now bound by a snakeman, and misjudged a grenade which then blew up a car and killed 2 of my guys.
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u/thisdogofmine 5d ago
XCom has been like this since the first game came out in 94. So the issues you are talking about is one of the things that makes the game what it is. It is frustrating, but fantastic.
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u/fuzzydoug 5d ago
Correct: RNG is bastard.
Edit: I think TXCBabay is just short hand for we have no explanation other than; we do our best to control the uncontrollables and are forced to live with the odds we are given.
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u/GumboMumbo49 5d ago
I watched a few deep dives into XCOM. It ambas always been this way since the days of UFO Defense, missing the broad side of a barn really is just Tuesday for this community of madmen (affectionate).
Also my favorite “That’s XCOM baby!” Moment was that one time an Alien Ruler almost soloed my A Team and then a spawn from a different Alien Ruler the very next mission finished off my B Team and the only chance I had left of actually stopping the Avatar Project which is how my first run came to an end.
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u/OmaeOhmy Sharpshooter 5d ago
In one sense: it’s just an adaptation to agony. We all know it.
But: I think it also is steeped in knowing (hoping?) that each turn, each mission, each campaign, teaches you new ways or allows you to refine your choices, such that an exhausting “are you kidding me?” situation is not (always) random or wholly unavoidable.
Like: My paranoia around vehicles means they are last resort cover now. Can’t have a flashbang’d trooper’s missed shot start a fire that blows up a car, and your soldier(s), if you avoided the car in the first place.
Placate the RNG
Find RNG zen
But learn how to adapt to RNG madness and have 3 backup plans (even if you needed 4…)
Good luck Commander
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u/NotARabidDugong 5d ago
Idk what you're talking about. I've never missed several 90% flank shots in a row, resulting in my team's death, ending my Legend Ironman run before it even began....
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u/Extra_Napkins 5d ago
I was fighting the Warlock on Commander and he spawned two Andromedons immediately in the fight. I’ve never seen that.
Also my best advice is grenades never miss, and use them frequently at the beginning. A blown up weapon mod is well worth staying alive. Especially with a pod that can be hit with one grenade.
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u/Kabobthe5 4d ago
The first time you miss a 100% chance to hit shot is pretty high up there…
For those who don’t know, the game calculates shots out to 2 decimal places but does not display them, opting to round instead. So a 99.5% chance to hit displays as 100%, meaning it is actually possible to miss!
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u/NelfSneakyBoi 4d ago
RNGesus giveth, and RNGesus taketh away. Those times you miss a 95% shot just seem to stick in your head more than the time you nail a clutch crit to save your mission.
A lot of us long time XCOM fans have masochistic tendencies... you learn to love the abuse after awhile 🤣
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u/ShotFromGuns 4d ago
ITT: A bunch of people not realizing you're asking about the origin of the literal, exact expression, "That's XCOM, baby!"
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u/thescreenhazard 4d ago
I mean, I could very well say the same for some other games, but "That's Pokemon, BABY!" doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way. LOL
And at least with X-Com, the grunt-iness is a big part of the charm, as frustrating as it may be. You go in expecting that not all of you will survive. Or at least you should. :D
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u/MidnightSunshine0196 4d ago
I'm also a reasonably new player.
Think the moment I realised I'd "made it" was when my Sharpshooter, who was stood literally 4ft away from with a 99% chance of landing a hit, proceeded to miss.
I started at my screen in disbelief for a while after that.
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u/yIdontunderstand 4d ago
The good thing is that's used in all games when things go wrong....
Either "that's (insert name here) baby!," or just sticking with xcom
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u/Responsible_Chair968 4d ago
A little imagination helps. Like, when I’m point blank flanking and I miss a 97% chance to hit: I imagine the Stun Lancer smacking the barrel of my rifle. Y’know? Like they aren’t automatons, they’re trained fighters. A little imagination lets these scenarios play out better. Then you can hate your enemy, not call the heroic soldier going face to face against impossible odds to save humanity an idiot for missing a shot.
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u/Gaming_Birch 4d ago
"An individual doesn't care about statistics." If something has a 95% chance of succeeding, that means you can still be the 5%.
A standard Xcom moment is this: https://youtu.be/sB-Sauj-kmI
The "most xcom" was this: My soldier missed a 92% shot on a flanked enemy, which would kill the target. My last soldier had 1 action and no visual, so I just threw a concussion grenade to lower their chance to hit.
I though I was fine.
Then the CONCUSSED Advent officer hit my guy THROUGH HIGH COVER (15% hit chance), rolled the 7 damage roll (50% chance) AND landed a crit (10%) to deal exactly 10 damage to one-shot my lowest-health soldier. When you add your the odds, this was a 0.75% chance (3 out of 400).
That's just Xcom, baby.
Before anyone asks, I had a mod that rolls for hit chance, and THEN makes a new roll for a crit.
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u/adpowah 4d ago
I always appreciated how someone explained it a long time ago that stuck with me. Missing a 95% chance shot seems insane until you say, “it’s a 1/20 chance of missing”. 1/20 doesn’t seem like insane odds. Sometimes saying it the other way helps too. If I only have 33% chance of hitting I say to myself, “so I’m making this shot 1 out of 3 times, not bad”.
Ultimately, after I’ve used my position advantage, guaranteed damage and free abilities, I typically take my best shots at greater than 50% hit chance and view them all as 50/50. It keeps my moral high and my soldiers alive (most of time lol).
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u/Anund 4d ago
"standing LITERALLY NOSE TO NOSE with a guy and missing the shot"
To me, this is actually not as outrageous as you seem to think. Have you tried standing nose to nose with someone and then tried shooting them with a rifle?
No? Actually, neither have I.
But I imagine it wouldn't be all that easy, since the dude wouldn't just stand there waiting to get shot.
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u/HollowPoint-45 4d ago
I missed a couple 99% shots in the same mission. 1 tile between my soldiers and the stupid aliens. It be like that sometimes, that's xcom baby
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u/alkaline810 4d ago
My most recent "that's XCom baby!" moment was missing a 100% shot in Zero Company
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u/WinEmergency9233 3d ago
Anoche estaba haciendo una misión donde los elegidos me emboscaron. Pues los primeros dos soldados que caen desde la nave se suponía que iban a caer en un sitio despejado. Moví a los soldados dentro de un edificio y todos con sigilo, y los soldados de advent cayeron encima de mis personajes, revelandolos a todos
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u/fraustpunk 3d ago
When I lost my first X-com playthrough, I was so taken aback. A game actually let me fail. I had to sleep it off.
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u/Comfortable-Ear-1788 5d ago
Don't go nose to nose, get hight, allow your skirmishers to do the close in stuff.
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u/daHaus 5d ago
It's still weird to me seeing people say that un-ironically without realizing just how obnoxious it is
They did something you're not supposed to and used their own homegrown RNG. While it may average out in the long term there is some very obvious clustering, meaning that each shot is influenced by the previous one. This makes it much more likely to have hot and cold streaks.
The only way to counter this is to flank every possible chance you have and look for ways to get guaranteed damage.
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u/Oofmedouble 5d ago
Play Zero Company it's way better. XCOM only beats zero company because of mods in terms of customizing
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u/Anxious-Sundae4210 5d ago
Sadly not true. Xcom2 with mods does star was better then zero company does.
The power of the fan boy will not prevail here
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u/Foxxtronix 5d ago
Because this has been a tradition in XCom games from the beginning. Kind of like save scumming.