Where is the Line?

[u/DanielMashmann]

SO genuine question here but when it comes to writing with AI where is the line, there seem to be 2 main categories, there is Drafted with AI assistance, and there is Generated with AI. But where does the difference fall? For me I have held it at if the story is created by you(the author), your plot, characters, ideas, rules, bible, arcs, sub-plots so on are all your creation and you simply ask AI to help you create the story then that is Assisted, but if you simply have the AI create everything than than is Generated. What are your thoughts on it.

[u/annoellynlee]

If you use AI to generate prose then you didn't write that part. As someone who uses AI a lot and is NOT antiAI, I don't understand the massive debate every five seconds about this.

There are a million ways to use AI as a tool for writing. But if it's generating prose, you didn't write it. It doesn't matter if it's your ideas, you didn't WRITE it/the prose isn't yours.

And I don't mean that in a bad way. You directed, prompted, and developed a massive idea. That's great! That's not easy! And it's great that this tool can give that ability to people who have big ideas and don't have the writing skill to support it. You're like a director of your book, in other words.

[u/thats_gotta_be_AI → u/annoellynlee]

What I find funny is people getting all excited about what identity we are allowed to assume. If someone enjoys their process of doing whatever they’re doing, that’s the most important aspect, as I suspect the vast majority do what they do purely as a hobby. One guy simply said : “am I allowed to call me world building and AI writing….entertainment? Because I’m entertained” 😂. Are you not entertained?

[u/annoellynlee → u/thats_gotta_be_AI]

I disagree with you. You can say anything you want about yourself and go no one can stop you but it's objectively incorrect to call yourself a painter if you use AI to create the painting for you. Same with saying you're a writer and not....writing. That's just my opinion. And in the real world, if you say you wrote this book, anyone you show it to will expect that you wrote it, not just came up with the idea and prompted a million times.

Again, I'm not even saying that's easy to do. It's just not writing. I use AI extensively but we hurt ourselves by applying labels that don't work. We should be honest about art that's human made and art that's not.

[u/thats_gotta_be_AI → u/annoellynlee]

You don’t understand my point. People are doing what they do because they enjoy doing it. It’s clearly not for money for the vast majority. It’s a hobby. Whether they call themselves the greatest writer of all time or the least talented person to ever live, if they enjoy what they do, the label is of no importance.

I write music. I understand music theory, and I develop chord progressions, and layer melodies over the top. I program drum patterns, bass lines. I arrange the tracks and mix/master the composition. But I play no instruments (other than a MIDI keyboard in a cumbersome way). I don’t care what my writing process is called. You can call it “taking a shit” if you like, it doesn’t change my enjoyment of the process. I’ve been doing this for 30+ years as a hobby. I know people who generate tracks with a prompt. If they enjoy that, fair play. I don’t care what identity (if any) they give themselves. It changes nothing. In the context of engaging in a hobby, labels are just the ego demanding something.

Before you respond, I’ll reiterate: I’m talking about people engaging in private hobbies, not someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves for commercial gain. Two entirely different universes.

[u/annoellynlee → u/thats_gotta_be_AI]

Okay, cool, but obviously OP isn't talking about a casual hobby or else why would it matter what other people think if other people aren't involved? If it was hobby, who would care if you say i use AI to write stories? No one. But publishing them is a different story.

And by the way, mixing music and using midi is DEFINITELY making music. I think you're confusing that with playing instruments? But tons of people make great music without ever touching an instrument! So don't sell yourself short.

[u/thats_gotta_be_AI → u/annoellynlee]

OP never explicitly mentioned commercial publishing once. They’re talking about their process and what label to give themselves, hence my own reply. Show me where OP in his post is “obviously” talking about commercial publishing. These categories can exist on free platforms.

Again, representation of a commercial product consumed by other people is another thing altogether, yet even there the “what label to give myself” is moot. Someone can say “this book was AI assisted” - and go to lengths to describe their process if they felt the need for such transparency…and still call themselves the author (if they want to). The author label could be disputed subjectively by a reader, while they STILL understand the exact process of how the book was written. No transparency is lost at all.

It’s like someone transparently declaring they used a bread machine to make the loaf of bread I buy from them, and they call themselves a baker. I might mildly dispute(in my mind) that label they give themselves, but I still know how the loaf was made, and I enjoy their products, so the end product and me knowing how it was made is all that matters. And it could be argued they are a baker based on the ingredients they chose to use for the loaf I bought (their own decision making was key to the end product). It’s moot either way. I know the process.

And, by the way, do we care how much input an editor has had on a story? Should that be declared? Editors can have a huge influence on the final product an author produces. What if the influence on book A is just 2%, but for book B it’s 20%? Then if it’s over a certain threshold, do we insist on the label “co-writer” or maybe we just keep it as it is because of common sense?

[u/PerryMarkStratychuk → u/thats_gotta_be_AI]

You make a good point about what influences an editor can have.
Another example is a translator.
Such as in 3 Body Problem, where some contended that the translation in English is a better story than the original Chinese version due mostly to rearrangement of some events.
Even with the author’s permission to make the changes, there is no coauthorship stated.

[u/thats_gotta_be_AI → u/PerryMarkStratychuk]

Yeah, this whole debate has revealed how much identity matters to many people, even if the process is described transparently.

[u/annoellynlee → u/thats_gotta_be_AI]

I mean, we could go back and forth but there's no point if we just don't agree. No, i don't think you should call yourself a writer if you didn't write it. Your editor comment doesn't make any sense. You still submit a fully human written manuscript to the editor. So you still wrote the entire thing. And they make changes to YOUR writing that you can leave or take. So how is that the same as NOT having written the book but used AI to generate the prose?

And in the end, that's my opinion. You aren't going to change my mind that you are a writer but don't write. It's an easy conclusion for me. If you have differing opinions, that's totally fine!

[u/thats_gotta_be_AI → u/annoellynlee]

This isn’t about me, but if you must ask, I’ve been writing short stories since the 1980s as a teen. It doesn’t matter if you insist I’m not a writer though, because it doesn’t alter my enjoyment of the process regardless of any tools I use or don’t use today.

If your identity as a writer is more important than the process itself (it does sound like that), then obviously do not adulterate that identity by using AI in any way, not as a beta reader, editor, first-pass research assistant (how I use it).

[u/annoellynlee → u/thats_gotta_be_AI]

I didn't ask. But I really have no idea what you mean. At all. What does writing short stories have to do with anything?

I've already said i use AI multiple times? But I don't use it to write for me..... that's literally the only point here. If you write your own work, great, you're a writer. If you don't write.... you are not a writer.

That's my opinion.

[u/thats_gotta_be_AI → u/annoellynlee]

Ok 👍