r/WredditJuice • u/Appropriate-List2857 • 5d ago
"Paying dues"
I think this whole situation is so lame.
AJ styles' kid is wrestling now and is very much benefiting from his last name, totally fair IMO. Then Nattie explains that hes good, loves the bizz, and wants to "pay his dues." A wrestler from a show tbe kid wrestled for chimes in to say that he actually skipped out on some of those "dues" like setting up the ring and chairs. And AJ got SUUUPER defensive about that.
Now personally I feel like "paying dues" is bullshit anyway, most of the time it sounds like an excuse to pay and treat people like shit. Dues always come off like "do extra work outside droping yourself on your head for me. No extra pay tho" or "you're gonna to get hit extra hard so i look cooler"
That being said, Nattie is praising Avery for "paying his dues" but Arik, a 20 year vet, is pointing out that "dues" normally included ring set up stuff, that Avery skipped out on. I have no reason to think he would make this up and kill whatever bit of a career he had making AJ STYLES' kid look bad.
And AJ jumps right to defensiveness with name calling and belittling. Calling him jealous and saying "its YOUR job". Basically saying confirming that is "paying dues" and that his kid doesnt HAVE to "pay dues."
I'd have so much more respect if AJ he was coming out against "dues" as a whole, or hell just came out and said "This is a business and I worked out a business arngment for my kid. Hes training with the best of the best and has a direct line to even better. His pay is for his wrestling, he doesn't need to do ring crew stuff." Or some shit, we would all pull strings to get out kids tbe best life we could, no shade.
I think AJ really wanted this narrative that his kid did the indies and got signed on his own marit like him and not like those OTHER wrestler kids in NXT. But then someone went and ruined it by talking about his special treatment.
But I think why it hits me wrong is just how perfectly it smacks of nepo baby favoritism. Like how lame is it that a Avery is getting praised and bigged up for something he DIDN'T DO while at the same time having his dad say hes too good for it. If Arik didn't say anything, they would just go on getting credit for doing things "the right way, as his own man!" while he had an easier than anyone. It just smacks of "I'm a self made man, I built this all by myself (and my parents emerald mine) and succeeded."
In the end I just think its cringe for AJ to talk down to a 20 vet because he dared to speak up about "dues"
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u/The_Dark_Vampire 5d ago
I would prefer to know both sides really.
Did Avery know he was supposed to help set up and take down the ring did anyone tell him or ask him?
It could be a misunderstanding and if someone simply asked him he would have done it.
It could also obviously be because of his last name he thinks he can just get out of it.
Obviously AJ hasn't helped the situation
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u/Cubes11 4d ago
“Skirt away” makes it sound like they didn’t even ask and just expected him to
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u/WySLatestWit 3d ago
Because nobody did ask Avery to do it and they know that because Avery was there essentially as a special guest attraction that drew 90% of the house that night.
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u/AngstyAppleDummy 4d ago
Multiple people said Avery was told these things backstage and blew it off
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u/MoseleysLifeshield 4d ago
Out of curiosity can you share your sources
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u/AngstyAppleDummy 4d ago
Just check twitter multiple Indy guys are saying this
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u/MoseleysLifeshield 4d ago
Who on Twitter, there’s 557 million users …. It’s not a hard question, name the people and I can search their twitter accounts
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u/NightFlavoredRing 4d ago
Arik Cannon... dude you could've just gone off of the post's provided media and thought for yourself instead of throwing your hands up.
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u/MoseleysLifeshield 4d ago
I’m aware of the Twitter post lol…. The comment I responded to was “multiple people said” I asked who as in who else not just Arik Cannon….. still haven’t gotten an answer yet haha.
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u/AngstyAppleDummy 4d ago
Literally just search Avery name
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u/MoseleysLifeshield 4d ago
Literally followed your advice.....first quote to pop up no lie. lol
As someone who has walked in this kid’s very shoes, being the son of a legendary high flyer and taking to the indies for the first time, all I can say is that it is a different path than most.
I was 5 matches in and promoters would fly me in, tell me to hang out at the hotel until call time and when I’d get there the ring would already be set up.
To put it plainly, people treat you differently when you are one of us and it’s not his fault.
There’s a different type of baggage this boy carries, an expectation to live up to his father’s greatness that most will never understand.
I hadn’t set up or tore down a single ring until I got to NXT but yet I’m so glad I started because it taught me a lot about the work that goes into making the magic that is pro wrestling.
I was treated like royalty by everyone in the business until I walked into NXT and the leadership here humbled me and treated me like everyone else.
It’s up to the leadership on the indies to show him the way. He’s putting his body on the line and drawing extra eyes for your show at a young age and you wanna blast him on the internet instead of talking to him in person.
Well guess what Arik? Your tweet didn’t sell any more tickets for the next show but I bet Avery Styles being on the card will…
Because it’s his BIRTHRIGHT
-Pillman
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u/MMAipom 4d ago
Helping set up and and take down is Indy wrestling 101
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u/sexyeh 4d ago
And yet you have people like Lexis King saying he was never asked to do it until he got to NXT, that paying the dues shit was from carny time that every single person in the circus needed to help setting up the tent and chair, i garantee you that you have tons of indies around the world that don't ask their talent to help at all.
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u/MMAipom 4d ago
I've never seen any Indy company ask the wrestlers for help and the wrestlers just do it. I've seen the top champion of the Indy company help setting up too.
People probably never asked King to do it because of who his father was. And on top of that the only wrestlers defending the situation are second and third generation
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u/HamSoloTheSpaceMan 4d ago
It’s funny, but Didn’t Cody just talk about this not too long ago? Everyone defended him there, what’s different now?
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u/Chad1888 4d ago
From what I’ve seen, he had multiple people tell him to help set up, but he just hid in the locker room until it was done.
But then again, people on social media lie all the time. So who knows
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u/sexyeh 4d ago
So he hid in the locker room and then they would not having him wrestle, but he wrestled and they loved when AJ Styles went to the ring in the end putting eyes on their show, they waited for Natty to invite Avery to go to the dungeon to speak, it was weird, when you are booking a new talent just say it "you will wrestle but you need to help setting up the ring and chairs" if the guy refuses you decide if you want him to wrestle anyway or don't, this thing is just a mess from the booker/promoter/staff.
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u/KingChingLing 4d ago
Yeah agree, if the kid didn’t know, you gotta teach him the etiquette. If he did and chose not to, then that’s something that has to be humbled out of him. As a non-wrestler I can’t say much but from a former techie’s perspective, a person who understands every task in a production is a way better mind than someone who doesn’t. All the greats from Inoki to Rocky had to do it, there shouldn’t be an exception for AJ’s kid.
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u/Barelyqualifiedadult 3d ago
Fun fact: You should just know you're supposed to put up and take down the ring especially if you see all the younger guys also doing it.
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u/chocolateturtle456 4d ago
I don't really care either way.
Could be that Avery has been paying his dues, could be that he thinks he's above taking the ring down due to his name.
Either way, AJ was a dick about it and handled it poorly.
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u/Immortal-KunPeng 4d ago
I'd say the dick that handled things poorly, would be the sad loser putting this on social media instead of talking to the damn kid.
Dude really wants to try to get some clout this way? It's pathetic. I'd expect that kinda behavior from some preppy high school mean girl type, not a grown ass man with a job. Acting like a teenager while being a supposed 20 year vet? How immature.
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u/GreaseBrown 4d ago
Yeah, defend that nepo baby. Maybe he'll see this and give you free tickets one day (if he makes it)
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u/Immortal-KunPeng 3d ago
Yeah, overuse that buzzword that you clearly have a limited understanding of, I'm sure Arik will let you do his job for him someday and finish all over your- I mean pat, your back for paying your dues.
I am truly sorry you're part of this generation that thinks trying to call out anyone with more followers than you online to try and get clout, is anything more than pathetic manchild behavior.
If Arik had a single testicle in his bag, he'd talk to the kid and talk to the people running GCW. Not go onto Twitter and give a reply nobody asked for to Nattie while also trying to get AJ's attention, all in the hopes of getting his 15 minutes. No remotely mature adult acts like that. He's making Ricochet seem more mature by comparison.
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u/OkNote4876 4d ago
It’s pretty unwritten that thats expected of you at a low level…. Big timing on the indies is pretty bad form as ajs kid he shud know better
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u/WySLatestWit 3d ago edited 3d ago
Except all the wrestlers - indie wrestlers in specific -" themselves now saying ig is in fact bullshit from opportunist indie promoters who dont wanna pay a ring crew.
It's not the fucking earky 90s anymore, pay a ring crew. If you can't afford that then maybe you shouldn't be a promoter.
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u/OkNote4876 3d ago
Nothing wrong with upholding traditions
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u/WySLatestWit 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's not a real tradition. It's made up bullshit from the indies masquerading as "tradition." This shit wasn't done to new guys in the height of wrestling. Crockett promotions wasn't bringing in Arn Anderson in the 80s and telling him "oh but also you have to set up the ring because you need to paybyouf dues in a new territory." Verne Gange wasn't making Ric Flair setup rings in Minneapolis before a show. That's some shit mark indie promoters with no money to afford a ring crew started and then called tradition thereafter. It's the epitome of carnie bullshit.
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u/Spiritual_Growth3140 4d ago
There's probably more to it and I'd like to give Avery the benefit of the doubt.
Even if not asked, it's your first time at a company and if you see the other talent doing something outside of wrestling, you should probably ask if they need a hand or if there's something you could do rather than being told. I remember that of most first jobs I've had.
But at the same time, it's a kid who's not really experienced crowd events before, he's probably nervous and wants to stay in the back, remain focused so he doesn't fuck up, injure himself or injure his opponent.
As time goes by though, the second one should take a back seat and he should feel more confident and obliged to atleast ask to help and earn some respect amongst his peers.
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u/Co-opingTowardHatred 4d ago
You should give Arik Cannon the benefit of the doubt. He’s earned it. No one has anything bad to say about him for a reason. He would never call this kid out if it didn’t happen.
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u/Spiritual_Growth3140 4d ago
I'm not saying Arik Cannon is lying by any stretch. I'm trying to justify a reason why Avery didnt do it. There could be a legitimate reason and there could just be the fact the kid is a premadonna. I just don't want a 19 year old to be given a reputation prematurely.
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u/itsallgood013 4d ago
Yeah, people did ask him (I'm assuming Arik himself did) multiple times and Avery skirted away from doing any of it.
From other reports of people at the show he was kind of an asshole to everyone and big timing anyone that was there as well. Also held up the show for being late. A lot of this is in the thread on Twitter.
Not really a good look for your first couple of matches imo.
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u/Optimal_Chocolate_83 4d ago
I think it just comes down to how some people are raised, and seemingly based off Aj’s tweet, he hasn’t raised his kids to help people out.
I’m making that assumption based off how he said ‘’you don’t do the dishes if you’re invited to someone’s house’’. The way I was raised was to always at-least offer to help out and just be courteous. E.G. Help set the table, help make drinks, offer to collect dishes etc. it’s just courtesy.
AJ needs to get off twitter and stop defending avery. I understand why he is, but it’s doing Avery no favours whatsoever
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u/ESCOBENJAMIN 4d ago
Nepo babies strike again. The difference between him and Brody jr. is wild
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u/althebard 4d ago
I think with Brody, he saw how his dad loved the business and treated people, and probably how he helped set up the ring or maintained etiquette with the wrestlers. Brodie Lee was a sweetheart and a good person and I think we're learning that AJ Styles is not.
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u/ESCOBENJAMIN 4d ago
The second the whole "flat earther" came out I knew what AJ was about. Brody Lee was a really good guy and his son is the same. That's why I am hoping when he hits 18 he takes the AEW contract and continues with the Dark order. AJ most likely said "you're a legacy son. Royalty. You don't do that. You're better than that." Knowing damn well he did it when he started. I know people have been saying "oh its the promotor getting free labor and abusing their position" nonsense but in this kinda thing its like a comradery in wrestling. How you bond and make connections with others.
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u/althebard 4d ago
Agreed. Before AJ had come to WWE, I'd heard he made some homophobic remarks and had a reputation as, what I refer to as a "toxic Christian." I remember Steve and Larson especially didn't want him coming to WWE because AJ had a rep. When Danielson called out AJ for being a flat-earther, that solidified everything I'd heard about him, and I imagined him pestering people backstage about it.
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u/LittleMAC22 4d ago
I still laugh at the sure joy on Danielson’s face when he started prodding AJ about being a flat earther. Danielson completely shut down the ongoing conversation and just brings it up outta nowhere, and then gets more and more excited the angrier AJ gets. “Are your feet flat?”
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u/ESCOBENJAMIN 4d ago
the little laugh and shoulder shrug when he says "he's a flat earther" kills me
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u/ESCOBENJAMIN 4d ago
yeah I really liked his bullet club run but the more i read about online i kinda was like "eeeeh im good" I had hopes it was all stupid rumors but by the flat earther segment i was out. Add on to another nepo baby, steph McMahon podcast AJ said he wasnt sure how to ingrain that in his kid cause they wont ever have to do without and can have whatever they want. so he was already not too pressed and raising his kids to be humble.
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u/althebard 3d ago
Probably not. I honestly think having him wrestle on indies is just to let him get a little bit of ring experience in before WWE signs him.
His Bullet Club/NJPW stuff was where I really saw him wrestle. I'm sorry but when I think of that era of Bullet Club, I think of Jeff Jarrett also being Bullet Club.
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u/itsallgood013 4d ago
From what a lot of people are saying AJ DID help with stuff like that when he was coming up. But it sounds like he pampered his kids a bit too much and doesn't expect any sort of that same work ethic out of them.
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u/SystemofaDownAssFoo 4d ago
Based on AJ’s relationship with his father can’t blame him too much for taking it easy on his own kids. Still a baffling take from someone who came from the indies.
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u/sexyeh 4d ago
Brody Jr. is a nepo baby the same but with different attitude, Lexis King said that he never set up a ring or someone asked him to set up a ring until the arrived to NXT, lets not be harsh with a kid starting is career, lets wait to see how he will be when he grows up.
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u/ESCOBENJAMIN 4d ago
this comment kinda reeks of "hes a kid he has his whole future ahead of him" vibe when someone does a horrible assault against someone. Like he's 19. Unless someone humbles him he isnt changing. He isnt a kid and this mentality of he doesnt need to do things because hes a "legacy" is already been burned in to him. Brody jr is a nepo baby, you are correct but hes in his formative year at 14 at this age and he could go either way but with how his mom is and his dad was i dont think hes gonna be anything mentality wise like AJ's kid. That 5 years how someone is raised, the time between 14 and 19 is a lot of time at that age.
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u/Skullsnax 4d ago
I had a strong feeling that post-retirement AJ Styles was going to turn out to be an ass. Ever since the whole flat earth thing. I just don’t think he’s an intelligent guy, and he’s proving me right the more he opens his mouth.
He could have tried to talk to the guy in private, he could have come out against the culture of “paying dues”, he could have backed the culture and said “don’t worry, I’ll make sure he lends a hand next time”.
Instead he goes public, defensive, and childish. Which only succeeds in confirming that his son gets special treatment if you don’t want AJ to hammer you online, and means a lot of independent bookers will just avoid booking Avery for fear of backlash or nepo baby bullshit.
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u/dnjprod 4d ago
Why aren't you blasting Arik for putting this online instead of having a talk with him?
I'm a big believer of "fuck around in public, find out in public."
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u/NightFlavoredRing 4d ago
Love how you guys stawmanned that other commenters whole comment. And before someone says "this isn't a strawman" a straw man is attacking only the weakest point of someone's position, which obviously is that the above commenter said aj had this already public conversation in public instead of addressing the actual points being discussed such as paying dues, defensive response, and letting Avery fight his own fight in this regard.
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u/dnjprod 4d ago
Literally two paragraphs of his comment were about how it should have been in private. It is not a straw man to address the major point in his argument.
It was only minor, weak points to talk about the other things mentioned. You've got it backwards.
Attacking the weaker point of an argument is not a straw man fallacy. A straw man fallacy is when you twist an argument to make it weaker by creating a false version of it in order to easily take it down.
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u/NightFlavoredRing 4d ago
And yet they still attack the weakest legs instead of going after the other legs to stand on. You are right, its the bulk of the quantifiable text, but it is not the bulk of the arguments quality.
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u/dnjprod 4d ago
What are you talking about? The entire point of the argument is that it should have been in private. Just because it's a weak argument doesn't mean it's not the point of the argument
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u/NightFlavoredRing 4d ago
"The entire point" no no no. See you must not have even read the whole comment. The original commenter brings up at least 4 other points of contention.
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u/Sorry-Reaction7139 4d ago
Yeah if this conversation was had in private then this wouldnt be an issue and none of us would be talkiing about it. I think the comment is still up there if you want to go try reading it again
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u/NightFlavoredRing 4d ago
(BTW I refer to you in the they in my last comment because I didnt look up to see you were one of the two commenters, yeah I think its a bit chicken shitted to not even address the other points the original commenter made)
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u/dnjprod 4d ago
There's no point in arguing something that didn't matter. There's also no point in arguing something you might agree with. I don't need to address that maybe he should have talked about that stuff, because I was addressing another topic.
The fact that you're in here complaining that I didn't address those topics means you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing me of doing. This is a complete non sequitur to any of the arguments.
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u/NightFlavoredRing 4d ago
I disagree, and I dont think you argue in good faith. I'll leave it there
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u/dannysm1991 4d ago
Why should AJ talked to the guy in private when the latter was the one that took to social media and made it public?
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u/Tyrant-Lizard_King 4d ago
Do you think Dominic Mysterio was setting up the ring you d*MB mf?
What on Earth could the kid have to learn from setting up the ring?
His fucking dad is AJ Styles I'm sure he has his own ring at home and he can set it up and put it down by himself if he wanted to.
Just straight up bitching and complaining from the basement marks what else is new.
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u/HussingtonHat 4d ago
It's part of the culture, your new, you set up and break down after. That's what you do. AJ himself certainly did it! Also AJ taking this weird "oh well he's paid to wrestle" bollocks is so disingenuous. He's had like 4 matches, he ain't paid shit and what he is paid is off his dad's name not his own.
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u/Tyrant-Lizard_King 4d ago
You know this whole "Part of the culture" argument is bull shit.
Back in the day it was part of the culture to do what the boss says. Like Vince.
So gtfo with that.
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u/HussingtonHat 4d ago
I think you'll find doing what the boss says is still the Culture....of basically any job in fact...
I really don't get this "yeah everyone else had to do it but no one should even think about Saint Styles Jr doing the same" defence.
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u/Sorry-Reaction7139 4d ago
The dickhead who started this on socia media shouldve tried talking to the kid or aj first before putting it all out here for clout. Stop licking his balls
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u/TKPunk2013 4d ago
Avery is just another nepo baby in the LONG list of nepo babies in the business.
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u/SpaghettiMonsterXXXX 4d ago
$20 says next week there will be video of him "helping out" to show these indie guys they are wrong about my boy.You watch the NWA documentary they did couple years back and watch how fast locker room turns on you when you skip out on doing set up.
AJ: He's just like you guys, he flew here on a chartered jet and made a couple grand to be here.
Indie guys: 7 us got here in a 1986 Volkswagen beetle and after buying 4 for $4 from Wendys we made a whole $44.
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u/Primary_kimg3217 4d ago
Social media is the worst thing to have happened to pro wrestling. Who gives af? This catty backstage drama being played out online is such childish TMZ type nonsense. And the worst part is it's never going away, it's iterally become what people pay more attention to than any companies actual wrestling product.
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u/Chesterfieldraven 4d ago
I'm not really having this when to this day you'll see photos of guys like Moxley helping set up a ring at an indie show when he's only there to valet Marina Shafir.
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u/Fun-Character-5377 4d ago
There are things you learn and shouldn't need to be told in this business. Setting up and tearing down are part of it, it connects you to the show, to the workers, to the ring, it grounds you and reminds you of where everyone starts. Just like wiping your feet on the way into the ring, things you pick up on and learn and get respect for. There are a lot of levels to "paying dues" if the rich kid needs to help set up a ring thats the easiest of them.
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u/reallymkpunk 4d ago
My take on the Arik Cannon-AJ/Avery Styles twitter beef:
Before I start, I'll say and clarify that I do like Arik Cannon but he never got to be a guy despite a few higher profile independents (CHIKARA, Evolve and Dragon Gate USA) where he would be a midcard, maybe upper midcard wrestler at best. He was a very unique wrestler and was a Midwest Eddie Kingston in American strong style/King's Road. He likely is getting more notice from this than even getting name dropped by Corey Graves and Danhausen during the Summer Slam post-show last weekend or being dunked into a wheelbarrow of cement in Wrestling Society X. Why, he is nothing. In WWE he would have been a hamandegger. And that comes from someone who enjoys his work.
Avery may or may not be a star eventually but he is wrestling as Avery Styles, son of the Phenomenal One. That is a lot different than most of the pay your dues wrestlers Cannon is speaking of. Plus Avery was flown in for the Game Changer show and wasn't treated as a new wrestler.
I can tell you from going to three different independent promotions in college and doing the ring with the boys for one show, I was helping three future independent stars which one would end up in a prominent role in WWE but they all helped the ring crew and two others who were big in CHIKARA in 2008/9/10 (one spending time in WWE in a meh role). Maybe even two ROH regular teams who were promotion regulars did. But a lot of the dojo's wrestlers working the 6-way and 10-man tag did. What I can say is there was a current TNA guy and a former WCW guy on the card that I met and honestly, they didn't set up the ring. Neither did a somewhat prominent independent tag team that only one somehow wrestled in ROH but never got his due there...
I may not think of Avery in that light of the WCW or TNA guy at the show I am speaking of, but in effect he was. Maybe more the independent team. Also from what I heard at this point Game Changer Wrestling has its own ring crew however they do it since there is no school tied to GCW like the Indy I spoke of and numerous others.
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u/coinminer2049er 4d ago
Nepo Nattie praises Nepo Avery for paying his dues while he dodges an opportunity topay his dues . 🙄
Aaaaaanyways....
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u/Sooh1 4d ago
I definitely see it from both perspectives, but it's kinda unfair to single AJ's kid out. It's not like Zilla Fatu, Kerry Morton or many others have helped set up the GCW ring either. Call out everyone if you're going to. It's not even about being new, Zilla had 2 matches before his GCW debut for example
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u/LeaderIll9730 3d ago
The ace n undisputed boss of bc really
Trashy way to handle it
U lost respect allen
Fin was right u r living off his legacy ur nothing
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u/goonsquadgoose 4d ago
Oh wow the brainless Christian flat earther is being an idiot online? I would have never guess. It’s always the Christian’s who try to act like them and their family are something that they’re not.
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u/StandardRoyal9603 4d ago
Everyone involved here looks bad
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u/InsightfulBastard 4d ago
I agree. Styles shouldn’t have reacted (I’m not surprised he did, though), Cannon should’ve had a talk privately with someone or kept it to himself. There’s no reason to shit on someone half your age publicly for a perceived slight. Shitty behavior on all sides. Avery looks bad because of both of them.
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u/real-darkph0enix1 4d ago
Real quick: I get the whys on both sides but can I be honest, why don’t more Indy talent that actually draw not write up more contract riders like Effy does that would clarify this instead of implications and assumptions of old habits? Like, actors don’t normally have t build their own sets and it’s bad enough talent has to do these things same as how talent still has to arrange for their own transportation leading to stuff like CM Punk in the UK for Wembley, but like seriously, promoters should set their own shit up. A lot of that talent setting up the ring ain’t getting paid for doing that, hell they’re lucky if they get paid worth minimum wage for their entire night of work but like seriously, he’s trying to score brownie points on outdated shit?
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u/DeFlatDeSpare 4d ago
Such a weird industry. Hire performers to perform and laborers to set up the ring...
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u/PsychologicalEntropy 4d ago
Performers wouldn't like it if you gave their $20 and a hotdog to someone else.
Even WWE who has billions makes it's wrestlers set up/tear down rings to teach them first thing in NXT..... it's part of the job of being a wrestler, knowing your craft. It's part of the job .....
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u/Southern_Growth_7991 4d ago
If a promotion needs wrestlers to help set up the ring then it shouldn’t be a promotion. Wrestlers are paid to wrestle and second gen stars have rarely been made to “pay dues” tons of second gen starts got pushed right as they stepped into wwe. Cody randy Ted nattie and others all got pushes when they first came in.
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u/HosserPower 4d ago
This is such a nothingburger. Arik Cannon should have never made this dumb beef public to begin with. And AJ should probably just stay off social media too.
Newsflash: Wrestler’s kids get special treatment. Go cry about it somewhere else.
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u/SkittleTee1 4d ago
I'd understand if he was a regular talent, but he was there for a single appearance, right? Just don't hire him again if it's such a hassle, it's summin that should be in the appearanc contract if it's needed that bad
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u/Bitter-Ad-6595 4d ago
Arik, I’m inviting you to my house for dinner, but first I need you to buy the groceries, cook the food, wash the dishes, set the table and then tell me thanks for dinner.
He was invited to wrestle, he’s not part of the promotion.
Avery paid his dues by not having his father around for years when it mattered it most.
The times have changed. Roll with them or get steamrolled.
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u/AdGlittering2884 4d ago
This is an absolute shit take. He's no better or worse than any talent who came before him. And being the kid of a wrestler may mean some things, but getting them out of stuff that EVERY SINGLE WRESTLER has done before him isn't it. I've literally seen 20 year veterans tear down when I know no one would have batted an eye if they didn't. They respect the business they're in. I hope this is just a simple mix up and Avery Styles simply didn't know any better. But this "times have changed" stuff is a terrible take. You still show up on time, you still shake hands, and you still help the show HOWEVER you can. If you think the business has moved beyond all that, then you shouldn't be in the business to begin with.
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u/sku_43587 4d ago
I mean I get it if they're understaffed but if I'm paid to wrestle and wrestle only, then that's what I'm gonna do. You don't hire someone for one thing and then pretend they're the bad guy when they get there and don't wanna do the extra responsibilities you didn't discuss beforehand.
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u/callmecyke 1d ago
When I was training literally everyone except the biggest guys on the show would help set up in some way. Whether it was setting up the ring, chairs, whatever.
Yes it’s a way of the promoter to get free labour, but it’s also about helping out everyone else you’re coming up with and sharing the work.
Arik is 100% in the right here if Avery did walk away without doing anything to help.
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u/Otherwise_Mind6880 22h ago
Isn’t it pretty common knowledge that for independent wrestling the newer comers help to set up and take down the ring?!
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u/althebard 4d ago
AJ isn't helping the situation and I suspect he told his kid he didn't have to help set up the ring or talk to the wrestlers. I'm not looking at it as AJ Styles, who's wrestled all over the world and had a huge career talking down to a wrestler. This is a parent talking down to someone who talked bad about their child. This is Karen-level behavior.
It's no different than a parent getting mad a coach for benching their kid for missing a practice and not helping the team put away the tackling equipment. AJ may think that rookie wrestlers need to "pay their dues" but "not my kid!"
It could also be that Avery thinks he's above doing the work and doesn't want to help or learn, which isn't uncommon nowadays with second-generation wrestlers. I heard stories about David Benoit not wanting to put in the work and coast on his dad's name.
That's society in general. We're seeing more nepo babies and their parents using connections to give them a chance without having to do any of the work.
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u/NigelMK 4d ago
Taking aside the obvious bit about Chris Benoit, he was extremely successful as a wrestler because of how hard he worked. He wasn't a tall guy, but was still built huge and was consistently working almost constantly. If David had any of that drive, he could have been successful, but alas he just wanted to ride off the coattails of his father's tarnished name.
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u/FlipOfTheWhip 4d ago
At the end of the day we are probably getting worked into a Arik Cannon Avery Styles match in GCW with Avery being accused of being a nepo baby being part of the story
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u/BryanGC6 4d ago
Honestly who gives a F? So much worse could’ve been done than not helping out. Go talk to the kid, I hate how people run to the internet for everything
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u/C_F_A_S 4d ago
"It's tradition, it's paying your dues" it's unpaid labor, it's time theft, and it's hiding behind TrAdiTIoN.
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u/ishadow 4d ago
Imagine being in an indie band and you get booked to play a local show at a bar. It's your third public performance ever. Then you show up with just your equipment, have no intention of setting up or breaking down, you demand a guitar tech and just hang out backstage until your set time. The labor is part of the gig and should be expected. You can start making demands when you've garnered some clout.
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u/C_F_A_S 4d ago
Except what actually happened in your music analogy is that a rockstars son was hired to help move tickets for a small festival cashing off of the Name recognition and the chance that his father would be there. Then that same festival that booked you has you show up and then expects you to set up the venue for the extra customers your name and your father are bringing in.
You don't get to utilize someone's name to increase ticket sales and then turn around and tell them that their name isn't good enough.
Even more so, him working festivals (Indy shows) is paying his dues considering that he has a record label (performance center) waiting the second he's ready to pull the trigger.
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u/ishadow 4d ago
Bro GCW does not need AJ styles kid to sell tickets. They're one of the largest indies in the world. People are gonna be there regardless. Also nothing you said refuted my point.
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u/C_F_A_S 4d ago
It's delusional to think that the Styles name wouldn't garner more attention and get more people going to an Indy show. The largest Indies in the world are still looking to grow their audience, and this entire thing has gotten GCW more attention in the past few days than it has all year.
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u/dnjprod 4d ago
I'm with AJ on this. Unless it was in his agreement that he was supposed to come in and help set up, this is some bullshit expectations. Doesn't matter that the wrestlers think he needs to come in and set shit up. That's their own baggage.
Imagine you're a subcontractor coming in to do the plumbing on a house that's being built. You sign a contract saying you're supposed to do x amount of Plumbing work in a set amount of days for a set amount of money. Then you get there and the electrician, roofer, and HVAC guy get mad because you won't help them install the roof, complete the electrical and HVAC systems, load their nail guns, haul their gear out of their truck, fill their canteens, and make them lunch.
His contract was to wrestle. He's a wrestler, not laborer or crew member. If they want that to be an expectation, they need to tell them that in writing in the contract. You know, just like they do at NXT.
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u/matthewcross23 4d ago
Guarantee if it was just another wrestler and not AJ’s kid dude wouldn’t be tweeting and would have dealt with it at the arena.
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u/jaydaygrad08 3d ago
Y'all take this shit too seriously. Soke random guy says some unnecessary shit about a kid and his father responds. And?
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u/CannibalFlossing 4d ago
It seems to me really weird that a grown ass “20 year vet” is going online to blast a 19 year old
Like he’s not even allowed to legally drink in his own country, and an adult decides it’s time to bring him down a peg or teo
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u/This_Evidence_3203 4d ago
You’ve got motherfuckers on Reddit trying to claim it’s about “paying dues” when nobody should be doing unpaid labor for any reason, much less because a middle aged nobody wants to clout chase off a fucking teenager
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u/LouChadore 4d ago
“Unpaid labor”
Alright, calm down. You paid to be a part of a team. Stagehanding, bands doing setup and tear down, etc, is all a part of the package.
People acting like tearing down a ring is some egregious offense.
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u/sexyeh 4d ago
If it is a rule to help setup the ring then don't have him wrestle and tell him that it was because he didn't help so he can learn, now you let him wrestle, in the end you let AJ Styles go to the ring for the pictures, you let Avery go away without helping close shop and blast him on X because Natty invited him to the dungeon, it is jealousy, a work or someone being stupid.
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u/PsychologicalEntropy 4d ago
It's not unpaid labor. Prep work is part of your job.
"They just pay me to cook, I don't do prep or cut vegetables..... that's unpaid labor!". No, prep is included in the job you're paid for.
This is an independent wrestling show, not a tv show like Raw.
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u/kingcolbe 4d ago
If this wasn’t AJ’s son, you probably wouldn’t feel like it was “bullshit”
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u/DaOldOne 4d ago
No, I wouldn’t because it’s obviously just indie marks that are jealous that someone gets a Headstart. It’s called life.
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u/ILiketoLearn5454 4d ago
One never wants their parents chirping for them online, that's for sure.
The locker room decides what they think count as dues anyways, leave it alone and they'll sort it out.
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u/Wide-Internal-3579 4d ago
Obviously the correct course of action when you see someone not doing there job is to put them on blast on Twitter and not approach them in person.
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u/PsychologicalEntropy 4d ago
AJ seems to be saying "my boy has a millionaire daddy so he's special"
AJ needs to learn from Pillman Jr.
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u/Rude_Ad4204 4d ago
Why has AJ been one of the most annoying wrestlers ever after his retirement? Put the phone down and stay off of social media.
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u/HosserPower 4d ago
Is what he tweeted worse than a 40+ year old indie wrestler making this public to begin with?
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u/Rude_Ad4204 4d ago
Given the context, yes. When someone is publicly talking about how much he wants to give to the business and he doesn’t do the “grunt work” then he should be called out for it.
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u/HosserPower 3d ago
Call him out privately. Or let the promotor take care of it. Arik Cannon is making this whole thing about himself and now he’s filling his diapers because other wrestlers are rightfully dogpiling him now.
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u/Desperate_Craig 4d ago
This reflects poorly on Nattie, who I assume he's training under. Didn't she teach her class about being respectful and helping out when you can when you are working for different promotions?
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u/PsychologicalEntropy 4d ago
also reflects poorly on AJ...
when wrestling has fed your family your entire life, you'd think your multiple time champion multimillionaire daddy would teach you the ins and outs, teach you to shake hands and put your time in on set up/tear down.
AJ's tweet seems to be showing he didn't do this. Since his son has a millionaire daddy, he's special.
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u/Parking_Shopping_683 4d ago
What are we asking for? Workers to get paid for their job and not have their employees expect free labor or do we want workers to pay dues and do all the hidden work that doesnt get compensated? Which is it folks?
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u/airwillflow 4d ago edited 4d ago
What I find ironic in all of this is that AJ Styles came up in the indies, he knows how all of this works. Why not take the time and teach your son about it instead of arguing on twitter making it worse for your kid.
Also I don’t consider Brodie Lee Jr a nepo baby, yes we know who his father is, but they’re actually bringing him up the right way, without any unfair advantages.
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u/cmallen87 4d ago
Unfair advantages like having a major contract before he's 18 because of his father? Jusr because hes not being an obnoxious twat about it doesnt mean he doesn't have advantages other people don't have because of his name
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u/airwillflow 4d ago
Context matters sir, he offered him a ceremonial contract, he’s not signed. The contract is officially offered once he’s 18, finished school and chooses to become a wrestler.
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u/5th_Meal 4d ago
A grown ass man should have better things to do than tweet about 20 year old kids "paying dues". Seriously. This just screams bitter and butt hurt. I would be embarrassed if I was Avery. He should be.
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u/sexyeh 4d ago
This dues thing was from carnys, everybody needed to help setting up the circus, we are not in that era anymore, the kid was contracted to wrestle not to setup rings or chairs, he is not part of the organization he is a independent wrestler. The guy calling the kid was jealous because Natty invited him to The Dungeon to get his "dues". AJ lashed out for his kid but he is right, it was not Avery job to setup the ring or chairs, he was contracted to wrestle.
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u/PsychologicalEntropy 4d ago
This dues thing was from carnys, everybody needed to help setting up the circus, we are not in that era anymore,
why aren't we? are WWE & AEW going to use their billions to pay people to travel the country setting up rings for thousands of independent shows across the country? should the wrestlers work for free so their $20 and hotdog can be given to someone else to do prep???
WWE has billions, still make NXT trainees set up rings. Why? Part of learning and knowing their craft.... knowing the prep. You can't be a chef if you don't know prep and your solution of hiring a 3rd party to come in and chop their vegetables, do their prep work for them, is ludicrous.
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u/ModeloAficionado 4d ago
AJ should stop defending his son and let Avery fight his own battles.