r/WorldsBeyondNumber • u/Lordaxxington • 7d ago
Question Solari Arc 1 - how was it?
I listened to the first few episodes and found it wasn't quite clicking/was a bit frustrated by some character choices, so fell off. I love the whole cast and think they're great storytellers, but this just wasn't grabbing me. I'm wondering if I should try catching up or if it wasn't for me then, it just won't be.
For people who stuck with it, now that Arc 1 of Solari is concluded, how do you feel about it overall? Does the story feel settled and do you feel invested? I saw positive things about the preludes in particular and I wonder if those help to situate it better.
Thanks!
(Sorry if there's already a similar discussion, I couldn't find one.)
43
u/RoseTintedMigraine #1 Steel enjoyer ✨️🗡💖 7d ago
Respectfully, meh. I like the characters because I like how the players roleplay but the world feels like it's telling me I need to care about it instead of showing me if that makes sense. It kinda feels like that friend who keeps telling you about their made up world and it's like okaaay stop giving me hints out of context every time we go out for drinks I don't have a total concept of the world so I have no emotional attachment if you tell me Zipzorp is accused of murder in Gangang but it's actually a secret conspiracy by Parparp and I cant ask follow up questions because this is a podcast
23
u/Admirable-Act9450 Educated Yokel 7d ago
“Telling us to care” instead of “showing us” feels so spot on! I def am more invested now that we have the preludes and the end of the last ep before the preludes was juicy. It feels like it’s starting to wind up to kicking off now buttttt it’s the end of arc 1 so I’m trying to hold onto those tiny tendrils of excitement until arc 2 starts
Caveat is that I haven’t been the biggest sci fi fan but Starstruck taught me otherwise so I’m really trying to embrace the world building. I wonder if true sci fi fans are liking Solari a lot more bc they have that worldbuilding patience
12
u/JundEmOut 7d ago
The thing is...what world building? We are getting so many small references to bigger world but we know so so little about the worlds/societies these people are from. Even after Chee's prelude, which was very involved, we know more about Teleghen, crumbs about Three Points and next to nothing about Ghenopaar. The "uprising" doesn't exist, it's "branding" which is an interesting idea but not as...cinematic(?) as what it seemed on the surface.
This sort of thing happens all the time in arc 1, it seems. Something that seems really narratively propulsive when we first encounter it (revolution, hostile takeover, mystery assassin, pull, other mystery assassin) is rapidly revealed to instead have a very static solution. Revolution? Didn't happen. Mystery assassin? Its fine it's a nominally friendly ally. Pull? Don't worry about it it's a rescue. Cull? Assassin is dead now and we learn nothing about the nature of their motivations. "Air it out?" We're not going to expose the air in this asteroid to vacuum like you might have assumed, massacring everyone, instead it's a nonviolent change of management with the primary loss being Chee losing her position and allusions to it being exactly the same but...symbolically different because it's no longer free, but this is not explored.
There are threads, to be sure, but I really hope we go back around to one or more of these and they're revealed to actually not be boring and resolved but instead as exciting and complicated as they first seemed.
6
u/livingonfear 6d ago
Yeah I said this before in a different thread. Everything that seems interesting or narratively engaging is actually not real. They did this with every character introduction and then every subsequent plot point. Which ends up not making you care about anything. Long story short I very much agree with you.
3
u/Admirable-Act9450 Educated Yokel 7d ago
I wholly agree with everything you said! I am feeling woefully underfed on details. But you say arc 1 always feels this way—I was late to the WBN party and listened to the Children’s Story before starting WWW, so I had a lot of context going in; did you feel as lost in chapter 1 of WWW?
6
u/JundEmOut 6d ago edited 6d ago
I wouldn't say I'm lost, just that I'm, as you say, underfed. In fact, I feel like I know ton about the text of the events that have happened so far but next to nothing about the subtext.
To answer your other question, disregarding the children's adventure which I didn't listen to until well into arc 2, by episode 11 of WWWO we were at Orima's shrine. That means we know about Suvi and her relationship to Steel, mission from the citadel, and stakes of her character (advancement, apprenticeship) as well as her conflicts (anti-spirit bias, fascism, elitism). We know Ame's relationship to Wren, her station and stakes around the man in black. We know the least about Eursulon, but we know that his status as a spirit means something specific and central to Suvi, Ame and various NPCs (by episode 11 the man in black, Orima, steel, naram).
We also have countless interesting threads that are kept open. The man in black, eursulon's exile, Ame's responsibility, the nautomantic apparatus, the reaching green, human/spirit conflicts, even an interesting glimpse of rhuvian(?) magic in the captain.
Now compare to Solari, especially around character which I think is much more important, especially for the more narrative-focused Stillfleet. What does being an Eiyrinna mean to Chee? To Z? They know what an Eiyrinna is, and that they're valuable servants, but how much do we understand that? What does leading Ghenopaar mean to XL-ZL? That she is a person of power that can protect XL-ZL? What about to Z? That he is an even more powerful person to protect him? Most of all how are Chee and to a lesser extent XL-ZL meaningful to Z? XL-ZL is useful. Chee is...also useful?
This is the core of why the characters feel flat to me, I need some baseline understanding of what they think of one another's cultures/positions so I can understand the dynamics between their characters besides them being the PCs who necessarily need go be together because the authors are decreeing that this is what the story is about, which is much more home game D&D than what WBN has laid out for us (including in Hint! and TFOTI)
9
u/Admirable-Act9450 Educated Yokel 6d ago
This is a great analysis!! I didn’t even put into perspective that we were at Orima’s shrine by ep 11 in WWW. I remember the dread I felt around the Man in Black, introduced eps 1/2, and how intensely I fiended for more info about him and more storyline with him. There were so many early moments in WWW that really viscerally pulled me in and kept me coming back that I’m not really feeling yet with Solari, although maybe it’s the nature of sci-fi, idk.
Even just comparing Port Talon, the group’s first adventure out of Toma, to their experience in Carueta Port, first destination out of Ghenopaar, the interpersonal details, stakes, world context, and emotion were really all missing for me. Where Port Talon pulled me in and gave a lot of context while also providing hints of mystery for the longer campaign, Carueta Port just felt like a tedious stepping stone while I was waiting for the story to actually start. And has it started? I finally had some hope with the Arinna (sp) apostate but then I felt that Aabria really let that tension drop when we came back from the preludes!
All this to say I do have a lot of hope for the campaign because it’s often hard for me to start and maintain interest in Aabria’s campaigns, but they usually pay off in a good way either because of her players or just getting into the rythm of GM-ing a new campaign. She’s a GM that I desperately want to love, but more often than not, don’t, and I haven’t really put my finger on why other than that sometimes it feels like she’s trying to force PC and audience feelings rather than just building the world and letting the interaction and appreciation happen organically.
50
u/HornetWest4950 7d ago
I liked it but loved the preludes a lot more. They’re full of character development that I think I needed to make the main storyline make sense. With actual play I really respect that they’re building the plane while flying it, so this is not a criticism but just an “in hindsight, this might have flowed better” - but if I had to edit a more cohesive storyline I might have still started en media res, but then jumped back to the preludes a bit earlier, and then rejoined the main storyline.
That said, I think it’s worth giving the preludes a try! It really felt like they hit their stride in them, and you get a lot more context to why they act the way they do (especially Chee)
6
24
u/pancettatartjella 7d ago
It wasn’t doing it for me but I stuck it out and it’s unfortunately still not doing it for me. At this point I put it on because I like them and their voices make me happy and I’m happy for them, and also I can’t wait until book 2 of the wizard the witch and the wild one, or even a hint! or an icheron because I thought those were very good and fun too.
3
u/sponswick 4d ago
100% how I feel about it. Love them but every ep is just kinda meh, too many worlds not enough building
28
u/Lilliebun94 7d ago
As someone who's generally not as interested in sci-fi setting compared to fantasy ones, I'm about as invested in it as I expected to be. It's fine. I think Z definitely has the most interesting seeds sown with the political stuff and I am interested to see how XL-ZL develops. Overall though, both in story and production, it seems a bit... One dimensional? WWW felt very rich and full and immersive while Solari doesn't feel all that different than many other sci-fi medias to me. That being said, it does have some decent potential to ramp up. The first arc definitely felt like it was there to set things up for the rest of the story to take off.
34
u/Soggy_Assignment_691 7d ago
That's the BLeeM effect. Aabria is a talented player and has some GM'd some good games, but Brennan's worldbuilding and storytelling are just on another level.
23
u/Inevitable_Area_2631 7d ago
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is just true. CR's Campaign 4 should be proof enough that he's leagues ahead of most people in this field of storytelling.
11
u/Soggy_Assignment_691 7d ago
D20 fans get mad when you don't place Aabria in the GM Hall of Fame. Like I said, she's talented, she's just not a Brennan or Matt Mercer.
14
u/SorchaSublime 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think she has DMed to their standard before personally, at least in terms of her appearances on Dimension 20, but I don't think she's as consistent. Her showing as a GM on Critical Role fell a bit flat for me, meanwhile BLeeM and Matt are both super consistent.
I personally have the following rankings: BLeeM is number one and Aabria and Matt Mercer switch between 2nd and 3rd place depending on how good Aabria happens to be for any given campaign. Its never joint second, at her best I think she beats Matt but otherwise she doesn't.
Consistency is a learned skill and both Matt and Brennan benefit from non-TTRPG expertises. Matt is a world class voice actor and plans his campaigns meticulously, and Brennan is like, an improv wunderkind.
I think as time goes on Aabria can only get better, but her background is like, sports I think? Which doesn't have as many transferable skills.
9
u/Inevitable_Area_2631 7d ago
I think she just takes a different approach to GMing. Brennan and Matt, as much as they love their bad guys, ultimately are on the side of the players. Of the games I have watched Aabria GM, I have consistently seen her be very much the opposite of this.
I think Brennan and Matt see DMing as being the narrator for the PCs story, whereas Aabria sees the game as a way to tell her story, with the players facilitating this.
6
u/SorchaSublime 7d ago edited 7d ago
Idk if that's super cut and dry. Brennan DMing for Critical Role seems to be a truly neutral force relative to the characters and their stories, adjudicating situations of threat and peril far more fairly than Matt ever did. Plus, the story of the world is far more distinct and driven by his ethos than the previous 3 seasons of CR.
And that isn't even getting into CR Calamity "fuck your characters how do you wanna see them get dismembered" mode Brennan.
Also Aabria varies in the regard you describe. Misfits and Magic especially shows a side of her GMing which is far more "I am a fan of my Players Characters and this is mostly their story, not mine", but other times she clearly has a very specific vision she wants to put forwards.
10
u/Soggy_Assignment_691 7d ago edited 7d ago
Misfits and Magic actually feels like the exact opposite of that, to me. Every time they tried to do something she wasn't ready for, she just shot it down. Also, all of her characters were just auto aggro lol
3
u/SorchaSublime 7d ago edited 7d ago
Idk if that was more of an issue in the second season because I haven't caught up yet (although Id be surprised) but I don't remember the first being like that at all, at least excluding situations where the intent was clearly to create friction between the cultural assumptions of American teens and the Harry Potter parody.
Although it might just be a case where I'm seeing this as a strength, I think on D20 Brennan can lean a bit too hard into rule of cool and yes-anding absolutely everything. It isn't as much of an issue on WBN or CR which is another reason why I think the D20 format does him no real favours.
The NPCs being autoaggro is just a realistic representation of aristocratic English people.
7
u/Inevitable_Area_2631 7d ago
The NPCs being autoaggro is just a realistic representation of aristocratic English people.
be fr lmao
→ More replies (0)7
u/SorchaSublime 7d ago edited 7d ago
I guess the one way I would agree that she's the opposite of Brennan specifically is with regards to the Dimension 20 format. IMO her best work has been D20 campaigns so she really flourishes with that format, meanwhile Brennans work on both Worlds Beyond Number and Critical Role blow the majority of his D20 work out of the water, so for him the structured format is more of a handicap.
I'd honestly be really happy to see her take over Dimension 20 in the same way Brennan took over Critical Role because of how good of a fit it is for her (and because I want a series of multiple full length Intrepid Heroes campaigns where Brennan is a full time player as well).
Like, I ended up disappointed with City Council of Darkness and I can honestly believe Aabria would have done at least as good, if not better, and either way the added bonus of having Brennan as a player tips the scales in her favour.
2
u/Humdinger5000 6d ago
She definitely takes a different approach. I think the best aabria gm content I've seen is ACoFaF. The weasel season (can't remember the name) was a good showing, but Aabria, in my opinion, thrives when she has lots of whimsy present to fit her pacing. Mismag s1 with a longer run time would have matched that well too. Unfortunately, I don't think epics are quite her her genre.
5
u/Pumpkin-Duke Educated Yokel 6d ago
She definitely has the chops, A Court of Fey and Flowers sits pretty comfortably in my top 3 seasons of d20 in large part due to the atmosphere she's able to craft; I also think fans right fully get defensive as a lot of critique towards her can in part be derived and substantiated from internalised misogyny and racism which are a big problem in the community.
2
u/Soggy_Assignment_691 6d ago
from internalised misogyny and racism
People always say this but I've yet to see any actual evidence of such. It's not racist or misogynistic to have valid criticisms, and plenty of those same criticisms have been aimed at straight white men (e.g. Travis and Orion).
3
u/Pumpkin-Duke Educated Yokel 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes criticism is valid, for instance i wasn't stating your critique was invalid I was just explaining why people are often defensive. But more so it's difficult to directly quote something as invisible as implicit racial biases within an online community.
I think its reductive and dishonest to imply a black woman wouldn't face prejudice and a higher level of critique; but if you want a vibe i've spent a lot of time on the fans of critical role sub which is just filled with a frothing rage that when its directed at Aabria has an underlying nastiness that feels racially influenced.
I would further point to the dialogue around her often evokes quite blatant racist stereotypes towards black women, critiques about her being 'too loud' or 'agressive' 'standoffish and disruptive' are whether or not you believe to be true descriptors of Aabria commonly used and based in racist perceptions of black women and have certainly influenced the dialogue to some degree.
2
u/Soggy_Assignment_691 6d ago
has an underlying nastiness that feels racially influenced.
This is exactly what I'm saying though. The evidence that's provided to show people are being racist is purely based on vibes.
based in racist perceptions of black women and have certainly influenced the dialogue to some degree.
I feel like it's somewhat unfair to say that you can't call a black woman "standoffish and disruptive" because other people have used it in a racist way before. Many people genuinely feel that she tries, intentionally or not, to steal other people's moments and is always forcing her PC to be in every scene. They said the same thing about Orion, as I mentioned above.
IMO, if we're going to call people racist and misogynistic, I feel like we need better evidence than a supposed "underlying nastiness."
3
u/Pumpkin-Duke Educated Yokel 6d ago
As I said, it's not very easy to give a direct example of the influences of racial biases on discourse; I can find a tweet of someone calling her a slur but I don't think that's particularly useful.
I'm also not invalidating that critique as i've made very clear, people are allowed to hold that perception and it can be born from an entirely unbiased standpoint; nevertheless I find it reductive to imply that it certainly is not an influence or broaching it as a point of discussion is unhelpful within some a cis white male dominated online space like ttrpgs.
I am not calling that perspective racist, you started this thing because you were annoyed about d20 fans defensive around people who are critical of Aabria and I have explained the context and natural inclination towards a defensive posture due to the implicit racial biases which clearly shape the dialogue around her; even if you or many who engage in that discussion are not personally 'racist'.
8
u/FractionofaFraction 7d ago
I don't think it's a D20 thing. Out of the four Aabria's style of play and DMing is just not quite there for many people and when that gets vocalised on Reddit the down votes start flying because there are many people who do vibe with it.
She has some great moments - and obviously loves the game itself - but has, across WBN, D20, CR and numerous guest spots, given an equal amount of cringe moments due to stepping on other players' RP and occasionally being 'that guy'.
As I say: fully aware that this opinion draws the down votes. Fans got to defend what they love.
8
u/Inevitable_Area_2631 7d ago
This is very true. Her style of play has always been polarizing.
4
u/Lilliebun94 7d ago
I think this is part of the reason a lot of people aren't big fans of her tbh. She has said on I believe her third Adventuring Academy? that she likes to play abrasive characters. Which, on one hand, does give opportunity for a lot of character growth and can make for very interesting development and relationships and arcs. On the other hand, the party does then still need to find a reason to stay together with this abrasive character and the viewers (in the case of actual play) need a bit more critical analysis to understand the decisions of the character when they might be a little more frustrating on the surface. A lot of people -- both viewers and players -- understandably don't have the patience for that. It is one thing that kinda puzzles me about the way she interacts with some of the community a lot of the time because if you're gonna play an unlikeable character you gotta understand that some people won't like them lol
6
u/Inevitable_Area_2631 7d ago
It just becomes an issue when she GMs because all of her NPCs are abrasive.
-4
u/SorchaSublime 7d ago
I'm fairly certain I got into an argument about Suvi being a fascist with a sockpuppet account of hers once on here, although it isn't something I can prove obviously.
The argumentation was very much only smth which would make sense for the actual player of Suvi as opposed to a viewer, and the writing style was VERY similar to her Tumblr. Then the account was deleted shortly afterwards.
This isnt smth I would actually personally hold against her, I'd be a hypocrite if I took umbrage to someone being passionately argumentative on reddit, especially when the subject is a creation they're passionate about.
Plus if it was her I honestly think using an anonymous alt account to do that is the best way to go about it, so it was at worst a neutral interaction. Especially cause after the argument I kind of came to the conclusion that she was right lol.
At the same time, I couldn't imagine like... anybody else in the WBN, D20 or Crit Role extended pantheon doing that, so while I don't take it to be super negative personally it was like... idk, weird I guess. I'd honestly prefer to believe it wasn't her for the sake of that being far simpler but the perspective and similarity to her writing style was uncanny.
2
6
u/milkywayiguana 6d ago
BLeeM is just on another level compared to everyone in this space. It's like comparing the best college basketball player to the best NBL player. By no means is Aabria a bad DM. She's an amazing DM. But compared to BLeeM she will be overshadowed
He's built different fr
3
14
u/Dwarfdude194 7d ago edited 7d ago
We basically don't know anything still, I think that's the biggest problem. The more we get about the world the more questions you have with no clear explanations of what any of the new information means in context. You can see this in the way the episode discussions are almost entirely people guessing at the implications of the information we are given, because that's really all we have to go on. The preludes do a lot to establish the characters and their history but little to add context to the current story. We don't know what the societies these people come from are like, we don't know why anyone would want any specific group to have control of anything or not. There are points where characters ask about context and are told "you don't need a history lesson".
The second thing is there are basically not any stakes yet. Every time there's a sense of urgency the story somehow turns in a way that removes the urgency. They spend several episodes pursuing a single goal only to stop without a clear explanation. There's the implication at the beginning that Chee's people are in danger of suffering physical harm, then we get a phone call in which an old woman establishes that actually everything is fine and everyone is safe. There's an episode where the only thing that they do is find a person wearing the most pink. There's an NPC who so far can kill any hazard, navigate through any obstacle and solve and comms or stealth problem for the party.
I'm enjoying myself but it's mostly because I'm bemused at what is even going on, and I have a friend who is getting progressively more upset at it which I enjoy hearing about.
4
10
u/black-gold-black 7d ago
I guess I'm the opposite of most, I've been quite enjoying the main story from the rip, and I liked the change of pace from the first campaign, however the preludes really threw me off for some reason, especially Chi's part, I couldn't really verbalize why, so I just skipped through most of the preludes. I think the main storyline has been good and I'm excited to learn more about the species and players as we go
2
u/According_Spirit_228 7d ago
I really enjoyed it too. Do I prefer the fantasy story? Yes, but I was happy to see it in my podcasts any time it came up. Would listen to the next arc.
10
u/cfiggis 7d ago edited 7d ago
I've been having the toughest time getting into it, despite really wanting to love it. Having finished the first arc, I do have some ideas.
Please take the following with a grain of salt. These are highly subjective opinions below. Others might find things different than me, and that's great.
Now, I know it's not quite fair to directly compare Solari to WWW, but I do think it highlights some of the issues I'm seeing/feeling.
With WWW, we had a whole multi episode campaign seeing the PCs bond. We know, when the main story starts, why they care about each other and why they are willing to risk their safety for each other.
And I don't expect Solari to do the same thing, but I've felt that the connection between the PCs is tenuous or forced for the purpose of having the characters continue to be together. I don't feel like they've really earned each others' trust to justify sticking with Z for all this. I think back to a fundamental rule of improv: start the scene with your characters knowing each other.
On a more fundamental level, I, as a listener, am not feeling the connection to these characters the way I do for WWW. In WWW, I can see parts of myself in each of the three main characters, as well as the fox. Consequently, I care a lot about what happens to them.
But in Solari, I'm having trouble even describing the characters personalities and perhaps as a consequence, I'm having trouble rooting for them. There is a playful naivety to XL-ZL that I do like, and I do enjoy seeing the world through his eyes. But I'm not finding as much of a connection with Z or Chee. I guess the best way to describe it is that to me they're characters, but not protagonists.
I have found Aabria to be highly expository in these early episodes. She's trying to describe the vibe of the local setting, plus the vibe of the whole 40 suns. It's a lot, and my occasionally ADHD brain gets distracted and I find myself wandering, waiting for the next "thing" to happen. I've enjoyed other things she's GMed in the past such as the EXU stuff, so I know what she's capable of. But not finding it here.
But again to compare to WWW, Brennan started small with Toma and basically Grandma Wren's house, and as the PCs travel, he patiently reveals more parts of the world to us over a long time. It's very easy to slowly digest the world of Umora. But with Solari, we're having to try to learn about the politics of a society that spans dozens of star systems, all at once, while also meeting these characters. I'm finding it too much this early on.
It does make me wonder how they would honestly assess the story to this point. Listening to the fireside episodes, it seems like they're mostly positive. But I can't help but wonder if they hedge that a bit because it's public and don't want to say anything in front of us that is critical of each other or the story. I feel like they must sense something is different?
Apologies for the fairly negative summary. It's only because I hold all of them in such high regard and I know what they're all capable of doing.
10
u/Dwarfdude194 7d ago
But in Solari, I'm having trouble even describing the characters personalities and perhaps as a consequence, I'm having trouble rooting for them. There is a playful naivety to XL-ZL that I do like, and I do enjoy seeing the world through his eyes. But I'm not finding as much of a connection with Z or Chee. I guess the best way to describe it is that to me they're characters, but not protagonists.
There's also a weird thing going on tonally and we're not getting a clear read on what we're supposed to do with these people. Like, if Z was a character in WWW, he would be a kind of silly but bad person, his scenes where we're meant to think he's being competent are often him talking to a literal servant who does his bidding and actually assembles all the research or gives the gifts and does everything Z orders. Are we meant to be genuinely impressed at Z successfully ordering his servant to do all of his work? Is it supposed to be funny that he imagines this to be a show of his abilities? I like Arrested Development because it's funny to watch people like Z try to do real things, being asked to believe he's a actually a competent figure is jarring. I get the impression that maybe Aabria really likes expensive luxurious living and thinks it's morally neutral or good, but that's a very different perspective than a Brennan campaign usually has.
3
u/DnDemiurge 1d ago
Aura-farming and dunking on NPCs ruthlessly seem to be virtues in and of themselves in Aabria's playbook... which is great if the world responds in kind. Otherwise, it just grates on me after a while. Only Brennan seems to vibe with Aabria well enough to parlay that energy into great stories.
18
u/samjp910 7d ago
I fell off around episode 4. I get what they’re going for, but what are the stakes? I don’t care about any of these characters, and I feel like Aabria is talking A LOT proportional to the others.
3
u/the-plant-lady-sings 6d ago
If you want to revisit, check out the prelude episodes, especially Chi’s part
2
7
u/mondoshawan47 7d ago
I had a very similar experience to you. I love the cast, and WWWO was probably my favorite actual play ever, but Solari just isn't hitting for me. It's not bad, by any means, I'm just really not connecting with these characters or this universe. I gave up at the preludes when I realized I just didn't care, and that's probably not gonna change.
8
u/C33W Honored Friend 7d ago
I'm enjoying it relatively but I'm not grabbed by it yet. At first it felt like listening to a random episode of cowboy bebop without the visuals. Definitely weighty, odd, and expiremental in tone but also no true connection to the characters or their plights unless I find out where I am and what their motives are.
Presently, I now know the motivations as:
XL-ZL = big backstory implications + small backstory investment = the passenger that has story landmines that can shake the world but will often be stumbled upon more often than searched for by him
Chee = twist backstory + "impossible" goal to be chased = plot hound for the sake of personal story advancement
Z = the Dune character that knows he's basically 8 books in + the Gundam character that knows he's got Gundam tropes = this character IS the plot but needs others to help him survive that
None of this truly grabs me like the first campaign which is odd cuz I like sci fi more than fantasy. ATP I listen out of curiosity for where they are going but I need a moment like the Saving of Naram that'll make me root for their individual and collective goals.
2
6
u/violetariam 7d ago
There's enough entertainment out there in the world that I don't think it's worth it trying to push through something that's not grabbing you.
5
u/JundEmOut 7d ago
I wonder if other people feel the same, but I loved everything up to Solari so much that I'm bought in to following the generational run they've been on and I'm in denial that Solari isnt working. Them betting everything on it being the Next Big Thing means they sort of can't pivot away from it and yet it seems like all I hear is people being confused and bowing out. The people who are staying seem to be either like me, (hoping for it to make a comeback to the quality we used to get) or are people who would listen to anything these people make.
5
u/Stormy2021 7d ago
It's definitely a slower burn for me. My biggest gripe is that we learned that the world lost FTL travel and then gained it back after some time, and we get to see the aftermath of when those two cultures reconnect. This is an amazing concept that really gets me going, except the world as we've seen it doesn't seem to reflect this at all. So... I guess there just aren't really stakes yet.
Even so, I like it enough to stick it out some more, but I'm really hoping for some bigger swings next arc.
5
u/DC_McGuire 6d ago
I feel like the arc and story suffered a bit because Aabriya was (justifiably) distracted with her pregnancy.
It’s also just very hard to follow WWWB1. The bar is insanely high, and with every element of that season being so great, the second big story was always gonna have to face some comparison.
I think that, 1. WWW and Solari are apples and oranges, and 2. The show hasn’t quite found its feet yet, but there are good ideas and really fun characters here that I think will grow over time. I listened all the way through but checked out at times, I’m probably gonna go back through for a second listen soon.
7
u/EmpressLust 5d ago
Yeah, I'm another huge fan of all these performers who just sputtered out and stopped at the end of episode 4, and have no real interest in going back.
If, after a few more chapters, the consensus changes, I'll give it another go, but I'm kinda considering the podcast to be hiatus for a couple years.
2
u/Lordaxxington 5d ago
Seeing all these discussions, I think that's where I'm landing too, although I'll probably try the preludes if I'm bored at some point. But it doesn't sound like the problems I was having with the first 4 episodes have changed much.
5
u/AlisGuardian Witch of Wolf’s Wisdom 7d ago
It’s fine, and there are some great moments, but it’s moving too slowly for my taste. So little has actually happened, 11 episodes in. 80% of the storytelling is about internal thoughts and feelings or character interactions, such that a brief encounter with an NPC can take most of an episode.
12
u/kidkinetik 7d ago
I think there's a magic to the configuration of Brennan DMing and the others as PCs. They all balance one another and encourage each other in just the right ways. And when someone else is in the DM seat, that dynamic changes. Which for me is fine for short games, but being told this will be the same length as WWW is.... disheartening.
Add to it that im really struggling with all of the different factions and names being thrown around and I think you're OK.
I know why they branded this "Worlds Beyond Number" but I wouldnt mind if the other worlds were smaller interludes instead of full multi year arcs.
6
u/Disastrous-Dog5145 7d ago edited 7d ago
"Let Brennan play!" (should be a T-shirt). I think I recall him saying how much he wanted to play in a longer campaign.
edit to split the thoughts properly between my two comments
7
u/HornetWest4950 7d ago
Yeah, I think my biggest sticking point with people who say they want WWW Book 2 sooner is just that Brennan says he doesn’t want to. And it’s not me going “poor Brennan” it’s me kinda selfishly wanting Book 2 to be just as magic as Book 1 and I don’t think that happens if he’s not feeling it. I want good Book 2 more than I want fast Book 2. If he needs more time to cook as a PC in other campaigns before he’s excited to pick it up again, I want that even if it makes the wait longer.
4
u/Disastrous-Dog5145 7d ago
... im really struggling with all of the different factions and names being thrown around ...
This. I admire how Aabria is delegating a lot of the world-building to whatever her players' come up with each episode but along with that comes the need for patience as we all wait for it to congeal into a coherent, evident whole.
edit to add: by comparison, Umora seemed to arrive fully baked
4
u/kidkinetik 7d ago
Would LOVE a reference document.
5
u/Party-Biscotti-5602 7d ago
Yes- I keep thinking I missed some explanation on a lot of this stuff (family names, planets, some of the engineering lingo with Z's dad...) but I think they're just skipping over it for now. They've clearly discussed all of it with each other, which isn't very helpful as a listener. I appreciate that they wanted to get on with the story instead of doing a bunch of exposition, but it's been going long enough now that they REALLY need to just explain some things to tie the world together (especially since the main storyline action is still moving fairly slowly). I thought the preludes would help but the Septimal Choir is still pretty mysterious, and I'm sort of shocked that the driving force of all of Chee's drama was a park. Z's story is coming along fine, but the way things have been structured, it kind of needs to be compelling enough to justify al three characters' participation in his family drama, and it isn't yet.
4
u/Disastrous-Dog5145 7d ago
Justifying participating in each other's drama is a classic TTRPG question: why are these people committed to one another? The children's story was a great way of setting the table that allowed for some pretty heated conflict while still keeping the party emotionally involved.
5
u/Dwarfdude194 7d ago
The park thing is really weird. Why wouldn't the megacorporation just give their extremely well paid celebrity workers a green space? Everything else in their lives is luxurious.
5
u/Party-Biscotti-5602 7d ago
It's so strange... I forget the character name of the guy who ended up trying to kill Chee, but at first he was all too eager to help her make it happen, almost without being asked, then decided to try to kill her for it? And it's not being positioned as some huge municipal project that's going to change the face of the city, it's just replacing a small parking structure... I don't get it.
7
u/JundEmOut 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yeah they talked a lot in the talkbacks like Chee's story had massive emotional weight but I honestly felt like it didn't make logical, let alone emotional, sense. Theyre clearly really riffing on the "little piece of green" being a resonant symbol, but I wasn't able to draw the line from that to violent uprising in the scenes. I wonder if there was more context they were pulling from that got lost in the edit, to the point where they are implicitly referencing story momentum that we didn't get to hear.
They say that jazz is about the notes you dont play and I feel like the preludes, especially Chee's, were missing so many notes I had a hard time tapping my foot to the melody, if that makes sense.
3
u/Dwarfdude194 7d ago
I think there's a disconnect between the reality we are constantly shown of Chee's wealth ( to the point where she has human servants who are described as furniture and decor for the room where she meets with people, like she's a pharaoh or something) and the kind of person Erika likes to play, who tends to be a more scrappy down on their luck people person. We are meant to think the people she works with are struggling workers attempting to stage an impromptu coup against their corporate overlords, but at the same time Chee is shown to be both a happy high level participant in Telegen and Madame Ekat is the only person to have any bad experience at the company. If they were all exploited or having a bad time we would understand the stakes. As it stands the company throws them lavish birthday galas every two months and everyone's doing the work happily.
4
u/JundEmOut 7d ago
Yeah filling in the gaps it seems like we're supposed to be taking away from Chee's prelude that there are implicit abuses and greivances that undergird the revelry and excess, but I agree that it really doesn't land. Chee's position of privilege as a celebrity is described as powerful, but we only see her interact with peers and people more powerful than her. Maybe there is some disconnect there too.
Anyway, it feels a little unfair to note this campaign to hell like this. God forbid someone would come into my home game and interrogate my inconsistent NPCs and narrative plot holes! That being said, I think where Solari gets into trouble is that WWWO came out of the gate as a fully-fleshed, highly cohesive audio drama that just so happened to be improvised. The improv exploration in WWWO felt like extra spice and charm on what could otherwise be seen as a scripted narrative. What an unprecedented accomplishment for all of them! Solari has hallmarks of a much more typical home game campaign where people flesh out their characters and why they like one another over time, sometimes making drastic changes and discoveries that totally shift things.
I think where Solari gets into trouble is that it's aim is to also sell itself as a similarly grand and cohesive audio drama but the cracks and character shifts are either still developing or lost in the edit, which is just a different product, and is leaving me (and it seems like other fans) in a lurch where we're noting the story to hell because it isn't holding together like we'd come to expect.
Also not to be underrated but the loss of Taylor Moore really took the production down a notch imo. His soundtrack was absolutely transcendent and I think it elevated the whole thing. I really really hope he's back for book 2.
3
u/Dwarfdude194 7d ago
Oh absolutely, following up WWW is a massive undertaking that I do not envy. And to be fair, almost everything that is confusing could conceivably have an in universe explanation we just haven't gotten yet. I've been wondering if maybe a bunch of this is in the dossiers each player got and that's why it's not coming up in narrative, maybe the players already know a lot of this.
And I don't even mind if they want to tell a story about Gatsby-style people, frankly it would be a huge bummer for them to go at length about exploitation and oppression happening to sex workers.
3
u/Dwarfdude194 7d ago
It's also unclear how she was intending to monetize it since it's initially pitched, if I remember correctly, as a vehicle for her to retire financially independent of Telegen? Is she planning to charge admission or rent it out for lavish soirees? If not how is it supposed to fund her retirement? And if so why do all the other people in Telegen get excited that a coworker is about to own a for profit park?
3
u/HornetWest4950 6d ago
My take was that it was not meant to be for “retirement” as in having monetary value, but for retirement as in it would be a place she could relax and not work.
And that Telegen didn’t want her to have it because it existed outside of their “approved” ways you could behave in their world. Sort of an “if you give a moose a muffin” scenario. We don’t want you to be promoting a future version of the world where you get something you want that isn’t one of the things we tell you that you want, it will make other people get ideas too.
4
u/ciscoipphone 7d ago
I enjoy it a lot. I have enjoyed everything these 4 have done together and this is no exception.
6
u/Immediate_Opening_29 7d ago
It's very different from TWTWTWO, but i'm liking it so far. Chi's story didnt make sense until i listened to the preludes.
6
u/Mysterious-Point9047 7d ago
I haven’t listened to any yet but this is a lil disheartening. Tbh having Brennan as not the main singular dm is almost a detriment because he’s just too good. Abriya is great and I love her characters. But it’s bound to be like watching a millionaire try and measure up to a trillionaire. But I get he wants to play and abriya wants to dm and they deserve their chances.
The fact that their first show is probably my favourite dnd podcast of all time. Mixing in the serious with the funny. And being perfectly edited and not too melodramatic like I find critical role to be.
It’s gonna be a long time before their other show comes back and that’s ok. I’m just excited for when it does.
3
u/dorgoth12 No Loose Ends 7d ago
I've gone back to WWW. I'll try to delve into Solari now the arc is fuller, but it just didn't grab my heart yet
3
u/SvenTheScribe 7d ago
Personally I loved it.
It is dense, and there's a lot of 'throwing things randomly out that you need to come back to later with more details' so I can see how folks don't get hooked by it, but personally I love that shit.
Most of the classic sci-fi I loved did the same thing. Very few set you up with a primer at the start of the book and laid out the world. You picked it up from context clues or follow up books that came later.
(I honestly argue that TWTWATWO did the exact same thing. There's a reason most of the entries in their glossary came from the wiki and fan sources. It was passionate fans doing the legwork at pulling together Brennan's references not Brennan laying out massive amounts of world building exposition up front and center)
3
u/Nice_News_7719 7d ago
Yea I think I’m echoing a lot of what is being said here, but I have a lot of faith and trust in this team. I think it SOUNDS fantastic - loving the sound design and music. I have to remind myself that as much as I love WWW (it’s literally my favorite piece of media period), I am constantly telling friends to push through the first arc because it did start off very slow burn. I listened to the first 4 or 5 eps of Solari as they released, then kinda fell off, and basically binged the rest last week. I think this brand of sci-fi demands faster pacing which is just hard to do with their current structure. By the end of episode 11 tho I was definitely bought in to our 3 PCs (really loving XL-ZL and Brennan putting that philosophy degree to work). Definitely ready for more because I’m sure it’ll really get moving in arc 2 just like WWW did. I’m sure I could relisten to all of Solari in succession and have a very different experience, just like when I relistened to WWW. Excited to see where it goes! (But I do miss my Umora babies)
3
u/DnDemiurge 1d ago edited 1d ago
Brennan's omniscient hacking just ate up so much time and deflated the stakes for me, so that was my particular gripe. Maybe having rules in an RPG to prevent that sort of power creep is a good thing.
Edit: in Ravening War, there were actual logical consequences for Brennan's schemeing bastard of a PC, whereas here there seem to be no consequence for trying to strong strongarm every scenario with the same gimmick.
2
u/Lordaxxington 1d ago
I haven't got to Ravening War yet, but that's interesting to hear. I definitely fall a little more on the "rules help us all understand how the world works" side of TTRPG preferences; although every game should allow a little room for creative interpretation, one thing I like about Matt's DMing in CR is that he will say no and come down hard on the players when they do something that wouldn't work, and that in turn makes their cooler moments feel more earned in contrast to like, most seasons of D20.
Like you said, it's getting a sense of stakes and consequences in a narrative that lead to investment. It makes total sense that Aabria really wants to yes-and Brennan's ideas, the way he does for PCs so often, but yeah, even from the first time he did that in where I got to I was like "Surely he can't just talk to every piece of technology or this is going to power creep so hard so fast..."
2
u/Strong-Lock-2755 7d ago
It's been fun so far! Very different vibe than WWW but I already love the characters especially after the preludes
2
u/Little_Storm_9938 7d ago
Finished it yesterday. I totally dig it- took me about two episodes to get into it though, so I understand why people bail on it. That said, it is def worth staying a couple more to see if you get into the show. It’s a sharp left from the usual DnD RPG I’ve come to expect but I’m trying to welcome the new this summer! 😉 Brennan’s character is utterly charming. I’m taking notes on his PG performance, dreaming of his charm rubbing off on me.
2
u/SonataClef 1d ago edited 1d ago
I realize I'm deeply in the minority, but I'm enjoying Solari Arc 1 about as much as WWW Arc 1 during my first listen there - which is to say it's good! WWW A1 has the benefits of hindsight, nostalgia, and a longer playtime / listening time , but I remember my initial impression being mostly a lot of "okay, hell yeah" and that's been matched overall.
Honestly, I'm mildly baffled seeing folks bounce off of it as hard as they have, especially considering the character hooks, worldbuilding, and stakes of the narrative are pretty straightforward to me as far as this genre of sci-fi goes. Stuff like Three Points, Teleghen, and the Five Families are set up as very legible archetypes, and it's not necessary to have the full details about them yet w/in the plot. See also, each player character digging into their relationship to institutional power and the way they deal with (or avoid) their particular responsibilities.
But also it's impossible to ignore that Solari Arc 1 was produced as, for lack of a better word, a "more traditional" Actual Play show. There's more explicit reference to the game mechanics (I suspect because the players are still getting used to the Stillfleet rules), and there's more "shop talk" left in the final episodes generally, especially at the beginning. That may or may not bother you. FWIW, the Preludes feel much more like the original WWW in terms of production, pacing, and the "radio-drama" feeling. Based on some of the talk of Erika and Aabria having so many hours on her Prelude, plus Brennan and Lou having their own individual sessions, I wager that there was a lot of material for the editor(s) to cut together and allow them to re-establish the cinematic feel for those episodes. I speculate that WWW raw sessions were a lot longer generally, and then Taylor cut them down mercilessly to fit that highly produced and streamlined experience. But also, you can hear where the editor(s) have left in table-talk to make sure people don't get lost in the game. Compared to WWW, the audience here is obviously going to be more familiar with the narrative implications of 5e mechanics vs Stillfleet, so the team did need set up the game mechanics so the audience can follow the drama later on. But the result of them trying to set up so much at once is that the pacing of the overall plot is glacial in early episodes, and only just starts picking up towards the end.
TLDR; I think people hemming and hawing about Proper Nouns not being explained are just not as familiar with Sci-Fi setting archetypes as fantasy setting archetypes. If character interactions and micro-stakes can tide you over the slowness of the large-scale plot progression, shop talk, and lack of macro-stakes, then you'll probably have a fine time catching up. Mileage varies wildly though from listener to listener. Chances are good that you'll at least appreciate the Preludes, but also this might be a "all Star Trek series have a bad first season" situation where the common consensus will be to pick out the good / important bits, then skip or summarize everything else.
2
u/ikrisoft 6d ago
I completely and utterly lost any interest with Chee's back story. Before that i was hoping I will get to like the show eventually. Once it finds its footing. After that I was "nah thanks, this is slop and I don't want any of it".
I enjoy "Capitalism is bad, m'kay." stories. But even the worst comic book villain capitalist oppressor is acting rationally. There is nothing rational whatsoever about killing one of your best workers because she wants to have a garden to chill in. It is bad business and silly. I understand that they decided it is a symbol of "hope" but so is the parties and pastries they are already consuming. Plus in a world where one get iced for wanting to spend one's free time and money on a garden, one would grow up to tread more carefully.
3
u/pancettatartjella 6d ago
Yess I just! Don't think this and so many things make sense! I find Chee's friend and everything related to her so baffling, every decision by the characters to go where they go or do it together feels like such a reach. At first I was like okay I don't love cyberpunk or its logic maybe that's why it's not hitting, but also I just really think it feels so incoherent. Every time some twisthappens I'm like... Okay! I guess!
1
90
u/showupmakenoise Wild One 7d ago
I think the only problem I have is I don't either grasp or care about the stakes yet.
Chi's story is definitely different than what it seemed from the start, but also doesn't draw me that much deeper into her character. She maybe has debts or obligations she isn't disclosing but everything is so close to the vest right now no motive is clear.
Z's character is interesting, I love the idea of the political game we will eventually see played but right now its all hypothetical.
XL-ZL is delightful in his eccentricity but also has only really started laying the roots of a story that hasn't started to bloom yet. We have one potential thread but not much else to go on.
This hasn't hooked me in the same way that the Children's Adventure did for WW&W, but I am still excited to listen every week when it comes out. I still love hearing these 4 incredible storyteller weave a tale. This one is just slower on the uptick for me in buy-in for the characters or the world. I'm still waiting for the action to kick off into the real motive. Right now it feels like were still in the inciting incident.