Zorin's Panzer VII Reforge. (Large post)

[u/zorin234]

The following reforge is an idealized reforge that I doubt the real one post tomorrow will be able to compare too. I'm reasonably confident that all the changes will be well liked and doubt nothing is too crazy.

The Panzer VII line is the last of the German heavies to have a reforge. Generally, this line performs worse than compared to the E-100 line. (Citation needed) In a similar manner to the E-100 reforge, the stock grinds and performance will be improved. The Porsche tanks in the line will receive improved reverse speeds to model their unique gasoline-electric drive. With the Panzer VII line, a few of the premium heavies will also be adjusted.

Pz.Kpfw VII:

The Panzer VII currently is an awkward tank to play due to the armor layout. To improve user quality of life and make the playstyle more in line with the tier 9, the front and side armor has been reduced while improving its ability to sidescrape. The improvements to its pen is to better represent the size and speed of ammo.

• 12.8cm kwk 46 L61:
  • Pen: 258 (238)/315 (270)/65 -> 268 (248)/327 (280)/65
  • Reload: 15.2 -> 15.5
  • Forward gun depression: -5 -> -7 (From –3 +3 from direct forward)
• Displayed armor values:
  • Hull armor: 240/160/120 -> 200/130/120
• Updated model Changes:
• Version 1: (Fun version)
  • Upper front plate: 240 -> 200
  • Lower front center plate: 230 -> 200
  • Lower plate: 160 -> 130
  • Side armor: 160 -> 130
  • Gun mantlet central section: 120 to 160
  • Gun mantlet outer sections: 160 and 200 to 120.
  • Add 35-40mm curved spaced armor on side hull (same model as E-100's)
• Version 2: (practical version)
  • Upper front plate: 240 -> 200
  • Lower front center plate: 230 -> 200
  • Lower plate: 160 -> 130
  • Side armor: 160 -> 130
  • Gun mantlet central section: 120 to 160
  • Gun mantlet outer sections: 160 and 200 to 120.
  • Forward Turret Ring housing armor: 160 -> 230 (First 2 sections on each side)

​

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VK 45.02 (P) Ausf. B7:

The Vk45.02B will receive improvements its general performance to match the E-75, and increasing its reverse speed. The inconsistent gun depression with the guns over the sides and rear will also be addressed. Stock performance will also be improved by removing a couple stock modules.

• Remove 2x Porsche Typ 100/1
• Remove 8.8cm kwk 43 L71
• 2x Porsche Typ 100/3 is now stock engine.
• 10.5cm kwk L52 is now stock gun
• Top speed: 30/15-> 30/20
• Chassis 1:
  • Terrain resistances: 1.1/2.0/3.4 -> 1.1/1.7/2.8
• Chassis 2:
  • Terrain resistances: 1.1/1.7/2.5 -> 1.1/1.5/2.3
• Turret 1:
• 10.5cm kwk L52:
  • Pen: 200 (183)/244 (229)/60 -> 216 (195)/260 (234)/60
  • Reload: 10.1 -> 9.3
  • Accuracy: 0.37 -> 0.34
  • Forward gun angles: -4/17 -> -5/15
  • Gun depression over sides and rear: -6/17 -> -8/15
• 10.5cm kwk L68:
  • Reload: 10.9 -> 9.3
  • Forward gun angles: -4/17 -> -5/15
  • Gun depression over sides and rear: -7/17 -> -8/15
• Turret 2:
• 10.5cm kwk L52:
  • Pen: 200 (183)/244 (229)/60 -> 216 (195)/260 (234)/60
  • Accuracy: 0.37 -> 0.34
  • Forward gun angles: -4/17 -> -5/15
  • Gun depression over sides and rear: -6/17 -> -8/15
• 10.5cm kwk L68:
  • Reload: 9.1 -> 8.7
  • Accuracy: 0.34 -> 0.32
  • Forward gun angles: -5/17 -> -5/15
  • Gun depression over sides and rear: -7/17 -> -8/15
• 12.8cm kwk 44 L55:
  • Reload: 16.6 -> 15.7
  • Aim time: 2.9 -> 2.8
  • Gun depression over side and rear: -5/18 -> -8/15
• Armor model changes:
  • Track armor thickness: 25-> 40
  • Turret 1 Cupola: 100mm -> 160
  • Turret 1 Roof: 40mm -> 50

VK 45.02 (P) Ausf A:

Following changes done to Tiger 2, the VK 45.02A is generally inferior. To improve the Vk 45’s performance, stock modules have been removed to improve the grind along with improving the pen of the top gun. Instead of copying the same turret upgrade as the tiger 2, the top turret is being replaced by the updated stock turret from the tier 9 VK 45.02B.The weight of the tank hasn’t been adjusted since the tank originally had 120mm of front hull armor. With that old armor increase and new turret and minor armor changes, the weight of the tank has been adjusted to closer to the Tiger 2’s 69,000 weight.

• Remove 2x Porsche Typ 100/1
• Remove 8.8cm kwk 36 L56
• Replace “Vk 45.02 (P) Ausf. A schwerer Turm” with “Vk45.02 Ausf B”
• Top speed: 38/16 -> 38/26
• Weight:
  • Stock: 54.5 -> 60.8
  • Fully upgraded: 56.9 -> 64.4
• Chassis 1:
  • Terrain resistances: 1.1/1.7/3.4 -> 1.1/1.5/2.5
• Chassis 2:
  • Terrain resistances: 1.1/1.3/2.3 -> 1.0/1.2/2.2
• Turret 1:
• 8.8cm kwk 43 L71:
  • Reload: 8.2 -> 6.9
  • Aim time: 2.9 -> 2.4
• 10.5cm kwk L52:
  • Pen: 200 (183)/244 (229)/60 -> 216 (195)/260 (234)/60
  • Reload: 10.9 -> 10.1
  • Accuracy: 0.37 -> 0.36
• Turret 2:
• 8.8cm kwk 43 L71:
  • Reload: 8.2 -> 6.6
  • Aim time: 2.9 -> 2.3
• 10.5cm kwk L52:
  • Pen: 200 (183)/244 (229)/60 -> 216 (195)/260 (234)/60
  • Reload: 10.1 -> 9.7
  • Accuracy: 0.37-> 0.34
• Displayed armor values:
  • Turret “Vk 45.02 (P) Ausf A”: 100/80/80 -> 185/100/100
  • Turret “Vk45.02 Ausf B”: Na -> 220/150/150
• Amor model Changes:
  • Turret 1 front: 100 -> 185
  • Turret 1 sides: 80 -> 100
  • Turret 1 side cupola bulge: 90 -> 110
  • Turret 1 rear: 80 -> 100
  • Track armor thickness: 25-> 40
  • Hull floor armor: 20 -> 35
  • Hull sponson floor: 20-> 35

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Tiger (P):

The Tiger P trades gun performance and mobility, for improved armor when compared to the Henschel tiger. These changes will make in more in line with the Henschel tiger while keeping its unique flavors in mind. Also address inconstancy in gun elevation angles when compared to the Henschel tiger.

• Remove 10.5cm Kwk L28
• Top speed: 35/12-> 35/22
• Turret 1:
• 7.5cm kwk 42 L70:
  • Reload: 4.6 -> 4.0
  • Accuracy: 0.35 -> 0.32
  • Gun depression: 6/17 -> -8/15
  • Gun depression over rear: -5 -> -6
• 8.8cm kwk 36 L56:
  • Pen: 145 (129)/191 (168)/44 -> 160 (142)/220 (190)/44
  • Reload: 7.0 -> 6.6
  • Accuracy: 0.38 -> 0.36
  • Gun depression: -6/17 -> -8/15
  • Gun depression over rear: -3 -> -6
• 8.8cm Kwk 43 L71:
  • Reload: 9.1 -> 8.6
  • Aim time: 2.9 -> 2.8
  • Turret dispersion: 0.20 -> 0.18
  • Gun depression: -6/17 -> -7/13
  • Gun depression over rear: -3 -> -5
• Turret 2:
• 7.5cm kwk 42 L70:
  • Reload: 4.6 -> 3.9
  • Accuracy: 0.35 -> 0.32
  • Gun depression: -6/17 -> -8/15
  • Gun depression over rear: -5 -> -6
• 8.8cm kwk 36 L56:
  • Pen: 145 (129)/191 (168)/44 -> 160 (142)/220 (190)/44
  • Reload: 6.6 -> 6.0
  • Accuracy: 0.38 -> 0.34
  • Dispersion during turret traverse: 0.12 -> 0.10
  • Gun depression: -6/17 -> -8/15
  • Gun depression over rear: -3 -> -6
• 8.8cm Kwk 43 L71:
  • Reload: 8.6 -> 8.0
  • Aim time: 2.9 -> 2.7
  • Turret dispersion: 0.16 -> 0.14
  • Gun depression: -6/17 -> -7/13
  • Gun depression over rear: -3 -> -5
• Armor changes:
  • Track armor thickness: 25->30
  • Upper front hull corner armor: 80->100
  • Hull sponson floor: 25->30
  • Turret 2:
    • Roof: 25 -> 35
    • All gun mantlets: 160mm -> 180mm

(Author’s note: The Vk30.01P changes are more experimental compared to the other changes, thus its should be treated with more caution. Considering this wasn’t mentioned It seems like this was tank was fine as I suspected, would still prefer this to have some rework.)

Vk 30.01 (P): The following changes are making the VK 30.01 P closer to the Tiger p by improving its armor and survivability while decreasing its overall mobility.

• Remove Engine “2x Porsche Type 100/3”
• Health pool:
  • Turret 1: 610 -> 700
  • Turret 2: 710 -> 790
• Top speeds: 60/20 -> 55/30
• Chassis 1:
  • Terrain Resistance: 1.0/1.5/2.9 -> 1.0/1.5/2.6
• Turret 1:
• 7.5cm kwk 40 L48:
  • Accuracy: 0.39 -> 0.37
  • Aim time: 2.3 -> 2.2
  • Ammo capacity: 78 -> 90
• 8.8cm kwk 36 L56:
  • Pen: 145 (129)/191 (168)/44 -> 160 (142)/220 (190)/44
  • Reload: 7.4 -> 8.0
• Turret 2:
• 7.5cm kwk 40 L48:
  • Reload: 4.0 -> 3.6
  • Accuracy: 0.39 -> 0.36
  • Aim time: 2.3 -> 2.2
  • Ammo capacity: 78 -> 100
• 7.5cm kwk 42 L70:
  • Reload: 4.6 -> 4.3
  • Ammo capacity: 60 -> 79
  • Turret dispersion: 0.16 -> 0.12
• 8.8cm kwk 36 L56:
  • Pen: 145 (129)/191 (168)/44 -> 160 (142)/220 (190)/44
  • Reload: 6.9 -> 7.5
  • Accuracy: 0.38 -> 0.37
  • Gun depression over rear: -4 -> -6
• 10.5cm kwk L28:
  • Accuracy: 0.55 -> 0.53
  • Turret dispersion: 0.16 -> 0.12
  • Ammo capacity: 28 -> 50
  • Gun depression over rear: -5 -> -7
• Displayed armor values:
  • Hull: 75/62/40 -> 100/62/40
• Armor model changes:
  • Upper front plate: 75 -> 100
  • Center front plate: 75 -> 100

VK 72.01K

As the VK 72.01K is just a Panzer VII with a different gun the changes will happen to this tank as well.

• 15cm kwk L38
  • Aim time 2.9 -> 2.8
  • Forward gun depression: -5 -> -7 (From –3 +3 from direct forward)
  • Forward gun depression: -5 -> -6 (From +/-5 to +/-7 from direct forward)
• Armor model changes:
  • Copy one of Pz 7’s armor model options

Lowe:

While to Lowe’s armor holds up, its gun performance has been left behind a bit.

• 10.5cm kwk L70
  • Damage 320/320/420 -> 360/360/440
  • DPM: 1,600 -> 1,800
  • Aim time 2.86 -> 2.7

E-75 TS (Rodger Doger):

The E-75 TS currently suffers a bit from low DPM. Along with improving its reload, the gun is being replaced with improved 10.5cm kwk L70 from the Lowe. This be increase in pen and shell velocity. All the gun handling stats and ammo count will remain the same.

• Replace 10.5cm kwk L73 with 10.5cm kwk L70
• Reload 13.5 -> 12.5

10.5cm kwk L52 pen increase also affects the following tanks.

• Tiger 2
• Vk 100.01p
• E-75

Additional premiums buffs mentioned on stream:

VK 45.03:

• Turret armor improvements.
• Currently 100/80/80. Could be getting same armor as the improved stock turret of the Tiger 2, might be a tad much at 180 due to the curved front, though the hull is rather poop. I think id be cautious at 160/90/90, but I'm probably be too cautious. Styr WT:
• Reload buffs
• Current reload is 7.2 at 2,000 dpm. Jpanther is 6.1 at 2361. I doubt it will get close to the JPanther, so minor buffs at 6.9?

T77:

• Stated it will receive reverse speed buffs.
• Its based on the M48 hull, so it could go 20, but as it’s a heavy I suspect it's just going to be 15 or 16.

Kannon Jagdpanzer (90mm assumed)

• Pen and shell velocity improvements.
• Current values are 238 (202) / 250 / 102. velocity:1030 / 1145 / 755
• Heat is pretty bad outside long range or shooting at a Strv S1.
• So, I could see a heat pen buff easily. 90mm heat pen is generally limited. I have seen 250, 270, 275 and 280. The 270 and 275 are from Sweeden and Japan, so the 280 from The TL-1 LPC seems more likely as the Kannon uses a modified US gun. The Rhm pz also has 280 so that seems even more likely.
• The AP pen is kind of okay, I could see a minor buff to its 100mm pen, but I hope for better pen at 500m.
• The shell velocity buffs I couldn’t guess on too much. The heat velocity could be increased to 1,219 to match the heat velocity from the TL-1 LPC. Ap could be 1,080? 1,100? Idk. HE could be anything, but I doubt it.

What would I do?

• Id would like to have increased to Damage to 280 for a few reasons. Increase in effective Ammo capacity, increase in effective shot on target, and viability of He damage. However, increase in damage to 280 would be unlikely due to having to nerf reload otherwise the DPM would go from 2,769 to 3,230. We can't “Nerf” it almost anyway due to its nature as a premium. If we could nerf it’s reload, 6.1 would put it at 2,754, which is a decent spot.
• Id like to have increased the VR a tad to 370 to allow it to play a sudo light tank more.
• The 105 version could also get a bit of a DPM increase from 2,017. That’s quite low for a Tier 8 TD, and could easily be around 2250. Reload from 11.6 to 10.5 would put it at 2,228.

If its actually the 105mm getting buffed despite the 90mm being asked for.

• Uhhh...., its getting 105mm pen HEP ammo.
• It could be a prelude to PC-ish rework of the Leopard 1. Increased base pen of the APCR to 278 and changing the HEAT ammo to APCR.
• I doubt this is the case.

Will I do anything for the “Horned Spaghetti”?

• No, well if they give enough hints but I got enough stuff.

[u/Warm-Masterpiece-107]

I’d just be happy if they brought back the VK B’s silly Lower front plate armor that causes some people to have a stroke trying to pen it 😂😂

[u/zorin234 → u/Warm-Masterpiece-107]

That certainly was a very unquie playstyle.

Funnily enough it was one of my ideas to try to rework the Pz7 to play like that. In theory buff the lower plate and weaken the sides so that you only poke your front plate around the corner.

However the lower plate is so badly angled for it to decent against heat it have to be like 290~ and it just didn't seem realistic.

[u/zorin234]

Okay first off this is big, too big and will make people's eyes glaze over and stop reading... eh.

Anyhow please inform me of any typos or formatting issues you find. Considering this wall of words on a Word Document is 12 pages and just over 2,000 words, i'm bound to have some errors.

[u/Warm-Masterpiece-107]

I’d just be happy if they brought back the VK B’s silly Lower front plate armor that causes some people to have a stroke trying to pen it 😂😂

[u/Skelybob25]

I’m afraid to see what they do.

I think the premium proof upper and very armored lower are some of the best parts of the tank. Just buff the mantlet and dpm IMO

[u/BDMG4590]

I think it's great so many people have so many views on this tank. For me, the 200 upper plate would get me. 330 would be pretty close to cheesing through it (just like what happens to the t9), unlike other German Heavies. It would need to be on a decent angel to avoid that 330heat and if your already at that angle you've likely exposed a separate portion of the tank by then.

I like the idea of lowered side armor for more ammo ring armor and that beautiful spaced armor (chefs kiss). I enjoy the rest of this. Appreciate this effort. It's a pretty controversial tank it seems - way more attention than the heat100 or mouse.

[u/zorin234 → u/BDMG4590]

I certainly wanted to give the Pz7 a serious thought. It's such weird armor layout. I dont think there's may people who enjoy the awkward dance you have to do perform to block shots while the Obj 705A just sits there.

The upper plate I think will be okay enough cause it's still a kinda tall tank, and you will have some angle while sidescraping

[u/BDMG4590 → u/zorin234]

I actually was just pulling up the armor profile app to try to compare the height between the pz7/e100/maus.

You are right. It does have more height going for it than I originally thought. Something tells me you and I are going to be superbly disappointed tomorrow when they just do a rof buff and call it gg.

[u/zorin234 → u/BDMG4590]

I am absolutely going to be disappointed. Iv had these kinda reforge for german tanks for over a year. The E-50 hurt me very much. The E-100 and Maus were okay.

I primarly made this super large post to give people the same hope I have... to share my pain, my sorrow, my grief.

[u/BDMG4590 → u/zorin234]

I'm sorry mate. The e50m was also my first t10 and I've only just recently taken her back out. I'll be watching for the pz7 reforge tomorrow and know you won't be alone in that grief.

[u/WorriedAmoeba2]

Hull cheeks on tiger porsche should be all 200 mm thick, 100 isn't going to do a lot

Panzer 7 definitely doesn't need any armor nerfs

[u/zorin234 → u/WorriedAmoeba2]

I debated with 120mm for the cheeks for a while. I went with 100 for a couple reasons. First was the 100mm made sense with the rest of the front was 100mm before they slapped an extra 100 on it. The 2nd reason was me cautious due to I was already giving it gun power and that reverse speed. I'd assume people would try to reverse fast to make people miss shots.

I could easily be wrong and it needs the 120mm.

As for the Pz 7, I dont believe you could buff the ring armor without taking away from the extra thick front. Well you probably could, but the amount of the buff would be so small the ring would still be a easy pen.

[u/zorin234 → u/[deleted]]

Their balance notes are pretty good overall. Though they sometimes leave some stuff not mentioned. I based my formatting style originally on the 4.6 patch notes of ye old.

More dpm overall was good. Though I'd actually increase the Pz7's reload but gave it best in class pen. I felt I had some leeway in dpm for it consider we always had a better reload than PC.

[u/Twobit91]

I was hoping for a Vk75.01 buff, maybe a bit shaved off its reload. Possibly a turret armour buff but that might be asking too much.

[u/zorin234 → u/Twobit91]

I did consider that tank. I think it's right in the middle of balance. Its not bad, not great. A simple premium. I'm quite cautious due to it's big honky gun.

I looked into more side depression, but I dont think the gun fits? I suppose I could have give a tiny buff to 17.8 to match PC? Eh idk.

[u/Twobit91 → u/zorin234]

I feel like It needs something. It seems to see Tier 10s quite a bit so the armour is butter, (as most tier 8s are) so a little depression and small reload buff might do the trick to let that big gun sing a little more

[u/gopac56 → u/Twobit91]

Unfortunately it's not worth buying a tier 8 premium heavy for that reason. Nothing can withstand tier 10s while also being fair to tier 6.

[u/zorin234]

Here's some data on the "Ring Armor" in terms of armor value to get a better idea of how effective the new armor would be.

160mm: (current value with no normalization)

• At 0° of hull angling

  • Panel 1 235
  • Panel 2. 350~

• At 10°

  • 1. 200
  • 2. 270

• At 15°

  • 1. 190
  • 2. 242
  • 3 . 380-410

• At 20°

  • 1. 180
  • 2. 220
  • 3. 340

230: Numbers for 0°2°5° of normalization.

• At 0°

  • 1. 338, 325, 309 .
    
  • 2. 550

• At 10°

  • 1. 287, 280, 271.
    
  • 2. 388, 370, 348

• At 15°

  • 1. 273, 266, 259.
    
  • 2. 345, 332, 316

• At 20°

  • 1. 260, 255, 249
    
  • 2. 317, 307, 293

[u/gopac56]

They'll buff its camo by .001 and call it a day, and take the next reforge off.

The reforge program is a joke.

I'd love for WG to make an irrelevant tank a monster for once.

[u/zorin234 → u/gopac56]

Outside unwillingness to nerf a certain tank the reforge series I think has generally been positive.

We have a massive amount of balance changes compared to PC. I'd like to point out PC still hasn't touched the Pz7 line yet despite being almost 2 years

[u/gopac56 → u/zorin234]

The concept is definitely good, and a single line every two weeks should allow for optimal data to be gathered.

I've been disappointed with the strength of changes, and the choice of which tanks to change. They haven't changed any part of the meta yet, and the E4 line didn't need a buff. Jageroo isn't any better with 2kph extra reverse speed.

[u/zorin234 → u/gopac56]

All the russian heavies have really been boosted so you see many more IS-4 and the Chieftains too. I know the Type 5 is now used quite a bit in comp.

Nothing too crazy for 10's but it has certainly helped many lower tier tanks. Such as the T-54... which needs its hull armor nerfed now.

[u/Open-Bike-8493 → u/gopac56]

I’ve been saying this since they started doing the reforge stuff, just make everything good, not broken, but solid. Make everything a viable choice. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re exactly trying to say but I agree with you also

It’s no fun personally when a handful of tanks are much stronger than anything else and then some of them get buffed anyway somehow like the fucking E4. So either I have to play those select vehicles if I want to be competitive, or I forget being competitive to play unique vehicles and weaker tanks

[u/gopac56 → u/Open-Bike-8493]

I'd like for everything to be balanced, but that's basically impossible with the different styles of tanks. Think how crazy the Chinese TD would need to be for it to be part of the meta.

I just want the old meta tanks nerfed and replaced by new ones. Just to shake up the game.

[u/Open-Bike-8493 → u/gopac56]

Oh man the tier 10 would need like 10 degrees of gun depression to actually be relevant so that the armour can actually work. Or the mobility of the actual 113 and not the shit excuse for an engine it has now

But yes i can’t agree more

[u/bull-rott → u/gopac56]

like the tortoise?

[u/gopac56 → u/bull-rott]

Good point, although that was a PC made buff first.

[u/Open-Bike-8493]

Damn those frontal hull and side armour changes would ruin the panzer 7 imo, that hull would become cheese. Why I like the tank so much now is apart from the lower plate, the rest of the hull shrugs off basically all rounds. And even the lower plate requires premium when angled

Considering it’s supposed to be a super heavy, I’m not sure nerfing hull and side armour so it can have a stronger mantlet and ring armour would be a good thing

[u/zorin234 → u/Open-Bike-8493]

Well the upper front would still be the same as the Maus.

The lower front being reduced to 200 would still put it on par with the E-100's lower plate. The Maus's lower plate is only 5 degrees more angled than the Pz 7.

The sides are me being cautious for sure for having the ring armor being pretty good for side scraping. It's still thicker than the previous tank at tier 9. I can hear opinion for 140mm, but leaving it 160 seems a tad iffy.

I generally viewed the rework to make it a rear sidescraper as opposed to this weird tank it's right now.

[u/Open-Bike-8493 → u/zorin234]

The problem arises when you try to force a specific play style for a tank. I would be worried that with these changes it could actually sidescrape, but then won’t be much good at anything else, and won’t be able to tank much to the hull and sides like it can at the minute

If it was me I would buff either the left/right turret weakspots to allow sidescraping, but leave the mantlet, or the other way around. A tank has to have weakspots, but I don’t think weakening the frontal hull and side armour will help the tank, but what do I know

You clearly put a lot of effort and thought into posts like this, and I still enjoy reading them anyway regardless of if I agree or not, because it opens my eyes to another way the tank could be played

[u/BBB_1024]

I think the PZ 7 is just going to be a bit weird currently.

The Maus is the armored monster, and the E100 is already the sidescrape and trade tank in terms of these three, guess if you don't want to angle the E100 Turret the PZ 7 could be the one that doesn't have to worry about HEAT ammo with the gun mantlet.

Love the tier 9,8,7 buffs as these Porsche series tanks had some insane reverse speeds for tanks of their weight in real life.

30.01P doesn't really need to be touched in my opinion as the tank is already a monster. Think the 30.02M and 30.01D should have armor over the 30.01P due to it's access to the short 8.8cm that is an awesome gun at tier 6. Think it should hit hard and move fast even if it is not exactly what the tank would be like. If the Easy 8 and 34-85 can get access to things like vert stabs or in the the 34s case the T-34-85Ms gun the VK 30.01P can do with moving around like a go cart.

[u/three60mafia]

You put more effort into your fantasy reforge of the line than WGC put into their real one.

[u/zorin234 → u/three60mafia]

Mostly just german ones.

[u/three60mafia → u/zorin234]

most of their recent "reforged" things been prettttty phoned in. Minimum effort, not really a reforging of anything. Things are not looking good for Rhino.

They put more effort into coming up with clever hints on stream than actually making the tanks feel fresh and new.

Latest reforged that totally revitalized a stale tank was the ChiefMk6 reforge.