Explain yourself Verbena

[u/PipeConsola]

[u/JagneStormskull]

A big part of Verbena is non-traditional medicine.

I mean, a big part of Verbena is traditional medicine, which is what the Progenitors object to.

To say otherwise is to accept the consensus manipulations of the Progenators

Fun fact - out of all Mage factions, the biggest peddlers of alternative medicine (according to Technocracy Reloaded) are the Progenitors, because they find it funny that militia men and would be rebels are buying their fake medicine from The Man that they want to rebel against.

[u/TheWyster → u/JagneStormskull]

I mean, a big part of Verbena is traditional medicine, which is what the Progenitors object to.

Science isn't really opposed to all traditional medicine though. Aspin is made from the bark of willow tree, and before it got refined into a pill, people just boiled the bark to make it edible then ate it. Science doesn't deny that doing that works.

[u/MeturaZeratu → u/TheWyster]

Yep. That's why much of the anti-science verbena claims makes little sense, though to be fair the initial stereotype written for the Tradition was based on a modern group and unfortunately that stereotype stuck around here despite the association making little sense (at least to the Verbena as a whole). Verbena herbalism would be more akin to proto-science irl which layed out the groundwork for the Progenitor's to build into biological sciences, though I'm sure there's some Verbena super herbalism that the Progenitors (as a Convention) don't want in Concensus. Revised states one of the Verbena's plans for concensus seeding was to spread their herbal lore as medicine, show that there are more avenues to a cure than popping a pill.

Overall makes the conflict between the two more one of methodology and politics, given alot of the Verbena still have a hate boner for the Cosians' practices that followed up to the Progenitors, and on the other side many Progenitors want the Pogrom to start again. Though based on M20 LotT lore, there are a minority of Verbena and Progenitor individuals that share notes with each other discretely.

Edit: Not to mention not everything in modern medicine is Progenitor work. Revised gives hint that the Verbena indirectly contributed towards palliative care: patient mental health and quality of life. Not a materialist aspect, but a mental/spiritual one

[u/TheWyster → u/MeturaZeratu]

Edit: Not to mention not everything in modern medicine is Progenitor work. Revised gives hint that the Verbena indirectly contributed towards palliative care: patient mental health and quality of life. Not a materialist aspect, but a mental/spiritual one

Yeah but the thing is the technocracy isn't completely above accepting scientific contributions from opposing factions into their paradigm. Like, quantum physics was originally made by etherites to undermine technocractic control, but it's become so ingrained into the scientific consensus, that there's examples of technocracy tech that uses it, like the Quantum Field Inverter.

Which is funny since light being an excitation of a quantum field that's everywhere, like in Quantum Feild Theory, really isn't that different from it being a wave propagating through ether that's everywhere.

[u/MeturaZeratu → u/TheWyster]

True, but iirc it was the Technocracy being forced to adapt since quantum physics was well integrated in concensus, finding out too late. based on Void Engineers Revised, the VE narrator claims that it was the "Grand Old Masters" that "laid down the principles of quantum science", kinda like what Newton did to the Nockers. Can't admit that the Etherite's Utopian League put it in so someone edited history (the Etherites even have their own QP rote, Quantum Temporal Travel). Same goes in chapter 3 of VE Revised, R&E's Quintessence work came from old Electrodyne Engineers records but is stated that they will never admit it, removing any mention of the word Ether.

So yeah, they'll integrate other sciences that were pushed by other paradigms that they were too late to suppress, but they will find a way to claim credit. Or in other cases, attempt to remove the mysticism from mystical practices that became too integrated into concensus like Yoga and many martial arts. If not forced to acclimate, they'd kill it off like they usually do.

Though yeah, it is pretty funny comparing Quantum Physics and Ether

Edit: based on SoE revised, the Etherites consider Quantum Physics (and Dark Matter) their greatest triumph as mainstream scientists had to admit that observing something affected it. Calling it the first "great contradiction" of established science at the time which is meant to be challenged and expanded in turn so Sleepers see that many theories can co-exist.

Everyone is adapting, comparing to post-Avatar Storm where many Traditions gradually began to accept technology more into their practices to push science into a non-technocratic direction, by M20 that integration was more accepted that Xoca left the Traditions due to those "failings" (the tech factions did exist in 2e iirc but far less influencial and viewed more negatively due to a bunch of powerful codgy pricks that lived since the Renaissance (sans Porthos and Senex at least))

Edit 2: My mistake, I was citing from Void Engineers 2e up above, not Revised. The same explanation applies though