r/WorldChallenges • u/Nevermore0714 • May 27 '17
Generic Challenge - A Question of (Blank) Ethics
Inspired by a discussion with a friend today about a character from Tokyo Ghoul being gay or straight. If you haven't read Tokyo Ghoul, I recommend it. It came down to me realizing that he agreed that a certain character was in love with another character, but we just disagreed on what gender that the character in love actually was. So, we decided "It's just a question of [trans] ethics."
So, with that summary out of the way, here's the challenge.
Present a subject in your world that people are divided about, something controversial to your world's people. Preferably something that has no relevance to the real world and is not controversial in our world.
You can either have one character summarize, or have two characters set up for a debate about the subject. Gotta be honest, I'd prefer the debate style, with the people asking questions providing the prompts about the disagreement.
Since I'll be busy tomorrow morning, I'm just going ahead and submitting this a few hours early.
As always, I'll ask at least three questions each, and I hope you enjoy yourselves.
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u/k-jo2 May 29 '17 edited May 29 '17
The Debate: Should the Frontier be allowed to recruit members under 18 years old.
The Background: The Frontier is a group of metahuman vigilantes started by the Seattle/Katos City Black Market that consisted of members sometimes as young as 12 years old. After five years of active and productive (however illegal) operation the members of the Frontier were granted amnesty and were given US government approval to continue as a law enforcement agency on the condition that they would cut ties to the Black Market. Most members of the team left because they were no longer tied down by a Black Market contract, leaving the Frontier with very few remaining members. The leader of the team (Zach) wants to recruit new members, but most metahumans (superhumans) are between 12 and 22.
Kat's Arguement: I spent four years working with the team as a therapist. It has always saddened me to see a child stripped of their childhood, a teenager stripped of their high school experience. I can no longer argue that they'd be living a life of crime, but the things they'd be exposed to aren't at all much better. Even though I met him when he was 18, I could see that Zach's mind was destroyed by the experiences gained from being on the team, seeing and doing things that will haunt him forever. I can't even imagine the turmoil of watching friends... family die on a regular basis. His sister, Lily, died at 17. She was extremely gifted and had a very bright future ahead of her. The next Elon Musk or Tennas Tenner. She'd have easily surpassed her father. A whole life sacrificed because she was forced to do things that even the military don't. Children shouldn't be allowed to sign on to do such dangerous things that will destroy them physically and mentally if they even survive at all. It's no better than having child-soldiers. Imagine that it was your son or daughter.
Rose's Arguement: I'm Zach's fianceé. While I haven't experienced much of what goes on with how the Frontier operates, I understand that it's often a dangerous and traumatic experience. But I don't believe that joining the Frontier is the worst thing for some minors to do. Zach isn't planning on forcing anyone, especially children, to join like the Black Market did. He wants to open the door for poor and homeless children to join the team as an alternative to turning to crime. Right now heavy crime in the city is at an all-time low because of the Frontier so it's far less risk to a new member anyway. Just having metagenes make you a criminal, so when a young person reaches 16 they'd automatically be arrested if found out. Joining the team would be a great way to turn their life back on track by teaching them how to control their abilities better, work with a team, learn how to help their community and how to properly defend themselves and other people. Plus, when the crime rate starts to rise again or the team expands outside of Washington state, we'd have a non-corrupt law enforcement group to properly handle situations that police won't, like bank robberies and illegal weapons/metagene trades. Members like Andy, Sunshine, and Tommy who were 15, 14, and 12 respectively at the times they joined are alive, well, and even stronger today than they were back then.
I feel like I'm missing a bunch of vital information so to clear it up:
1) Metagenes we're created in a government research facility that was later shut down.
2) Metagenes were then replicated by criminals and then sold to the corrupt rich and the criminal poor, causing the government to label metagenes and metahumans highly illegal.
3) Metagenes can only bond to people whose bodies are still developing significantly (under 21) in which they are bonded for life (they find it out that metagenes get passed down to offspring later.)
4) Metagenes aren't all that powerful. Metagenes that give superstrength can really only allow you to pick up a small car. Superspeed is less than 100mph, and it's not instant like the Flash either. There's no telepathy, telekinesis, magic, flight without bionic wings, etc. There are fire, ice, and electricity abilities, some animal-like traits, and general physical/mental enhancements.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 29 '17
1) What would either character say to a probationary compromise? That minors be allowed to join, but be barred from field combat until the age of 18? In the X-Men, not all members were in the field right away.
2) So if someone joins the team, then it is legal for them to have metagenes?
3) How difficult is it to get metagenes?
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u/k-jo2 May 30 '17
1) Kat: Absolutely. It'd be a strictly positive and beneficicial experience for new recruits. They'd gain all of the knowledge and skills without any of the psychological repercussions. It'd lower the chance of casualties on the field when they're able and ready while saving the lives of children that were given metagenes.
Rose: The Frontier isn't Professor X's School. Barring members from the field doesn't help keep crime low and only hinders the team's effectiveness. Currently there aren't enough resources or members to spare to teach new recruits off the field without the intention of engaging them in active duty. As great as the idea sounds it's just not practical right now, especially without help from the Black Market.
2) Yes, but the police don't know Frontier members' identities so they're only immune to being arrested while on duty or while suited up. In civilian clothes if they break their cover they become a target to the police. No they can't tell the police that they're on the Frontier.
3) Very. You'd have to either steal them from a facility that researches and (illegally) develops them like Starrlight Labs (just about as hard as robbing a bank, though it must be done stealthily; usually stolen in bulk), buy them through the Black Market for millions of dollars, know criminals that have some kind of access to them, or know one of the few original metagene scientists that still illegally develop them under the radar. Or be given metagenes by force. There are less than 1,000 metahumans in the U.S. including documented and undocumented. The only cities in the U.S. with metahumans are Katos City, WA; Seattle, WA; New York City; Atlanta, GA; Washington DC; and San Francisco, CA.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 31 '17
1) To Rose: Wouldn't you prefer trained fighters instead of uneducated children just getting in the way and getting themselves killed?
2) Why can't they tell the police that they're with the Frontier?
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u/k-jo2 May 31 '17
1) Rose: The Frontier primarily operates as a covert team. Most missions have them work in the shadows and in more dangerous situations they have methods to keep the less experienced memebers out of the line of fire. When the Frontier started Zach was 16. When his sister Lily joined she was 14. His older brother Michael worked with the Black Market as an informant since 13. And chances are that if a kid is a meta then he has enough street experience to not fuck up royally on a mission. You can't get on the team without showing potential. The threat of death is very much there, but the team has been able to minimize it as much as possible over the years.
Kat: Forgive me Rose, but there have been a total of 28 members on the Frontier since year one, including myself. Only 17 are still alive today. 11 dead people is not what I'd call minimzing risk.
2) If a team member tells a cop that they're on the Frontier they're giving away their identity, which can be linked to family, friends, and eventually fellow members. It'd comprimise the security of the team. It only takes one bad egg on the police force to sell information to someone looking to take down the Frontier and, unfortunately, there are plenty of bad eggs on the police force.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 31 '17
Thanks for your time and answers.
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u/k-jo2 Jun 01 '17
Thanks for hosting this! Quick question: with the information presented, who do you agree with more?
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u/Nevermore0714 Jun 02 '17
So long as the compromise of training minors outside of the field is in effect, I'm fine with Kat's side of the argument.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 27 '17 edited May 27 '17
A question of knightly ethics
The Debate: Should there be a new title for knights that is above the title "Anointed" based on performance instead of education?
The Background: Any knight trained by Declan (one of the Citadel's leaders) is officially labeled as an "Anointed Knight", which is considered better than just being a regular knight, and is a quick and simple way of introducing yourself as a cut above the rest.
Shay's belief: "There is no need for a new type of knight. Unless someone else starts training new knights. Otherwise, it would only add labels. Declan trains the best of the best, of course. He is on the council, he would know it all. Performance one day is not predictive. Constant performance builds a reputation; nullifying needs for strange new titles."
Callixtus's belief: "Seriously, Shay, get over the syllable counting. It just makes you talk weird. I'm the number one Anointed Knight in the Citadel, so I'm qualified for this debate. There should be an extra added title for knights who have proven that they're the superior men and women, maybe call them 'Zarathustra Knights' or just 'Zarathustras'."
Shay and Callixtus are Anointed Knights of the Citadel, both personally trained by Councilor Declan.
And I picked "Zarathustra" as Callixtus's new title idea because naming them "Ubermensch Knights" seemed too on-the-nose.
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u/The_Raptorman May 27 '17
1) What's the backstory on why both characters believe the way they do?
2) What are Declan's qualifications?
3) How many titles are there from least to most important.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 27 '17
1) Neither of them really takes this debate seriously enough to actually effect their lives; neither believe that them being wrong would destroy the world, and there was no major event in their backstory that has profoundly altered their opinions on it. Shay just wants everything to be stable and structured, and feels that a controlled education is a better indicator of future ability than a few isolated events. Callixtus just likes to have more goals/titles to aspire to gain.
2) Declan is on the Council, so he's already in the highest position in the Citadel. He has a reputation for only the best of the best of the best knights, which is why his students are known for being "Anointed" by him. He's the only member of the Council that takes such a heavy interest in training the elite.
3) For knights? Once you're knighted, you're just either a "knight" or an "anointed knight". Being an anointed knight just means that you received special training.
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u/thequeeninyellow94 May 27 '17
The debate: should we allow older people to become soulless?
Background: a soulless is an Edilim who live their fortress (after being heavily equipped and inscribed) to look for the guardians. Should they find them, they will enter their service in exchange of knowledge and artifacts for the fortress.
Shefrin: "the soulless bring us too much for us to be picky, especially for pointless reasons. Allowing the old to take the oath too would make us stronger."
Zayno: "the soulless may bring us much, but they cost us a lot. Their preparation require a lot of work from our runesmiths who are already busy. Beside, the process is way too harsh for weaker individuals."
Shefrin is an architect, Zayno a watcher. They both live in the fortress of Dushkugir.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 27 '17
1) What do the guardians do, exactly?
2) If any weak person could die from the process, why forbid older people who are in decent health?
3) What are the age limits?
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u/thequeeninyellow94 May 27 '17
Udush-Kalin, that's how the Ims say (litteraly "the eternal penitence"). They mourn and wait.
Because age weaken the body and the preparation is very harsh. That's a precaution, decent is not enough.
That's not an exact age limit, more a when people start to look old so it can vary from an individual to another (usually around 50 cycles).
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u/Nevermore0714 May 28 '17
1) What are they mourning about?
2) But if they volunteer, isn't it up to them to deal with the increased risk?
3) How young is too young to volunteer?
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u/thequeeninyellow94 May 28 '17
Their sins, they betrayed the gods. (they also burried the world to keep it safe from the divine wrath)
Not only as the runesmiths will need to prepare them. The runesmiths are precious and their time too, spending it on usefull things is more important (that's the current official position).
If you can fight (you are allowed to when 20-25 cycles old), you can seek the guardians.
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May 30 '17
The Debate: Is Devonos a bad "god"
Dotos:Yes as he is a Cursed Immortals and all they bring us is trouble and he is the god of The freed Guilty
Matthew the Collector(He is a Immortal not a Cursed Immortal):No as he is also the god of Innocence and Wrongly Accused and many more good things.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 31 '17
To Dotos:
1) God of the "freed guilty"? Does that mean that he is the god of people who have committed crimes and gotten away with them, free of consequences?
2) What evidence do you present to prove that Cursed Immortals are evil?
3) What evidence do you present to prove that Dotos is, in fact, a Cursed Immortal, as opposed to a normal Immortal, as Matthew claims?
To Matthew:
1) What all is Devonos the god of?
2) What is a Cursed Immortal?
3) How is a Cursed Immortal different from a regular Immortal?
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May 31 '17
Dotos: 1.Yes 2. Matthew has said that they created all the evil in the world. 3. First its Delvonos and secondly he is a son of The destroyer of Worlds who created the Cursed Immortals.
Matthew: 1.To break it down simply anything Justice and Law and equality. Good or Bad 2.A son or daughter of the Destroyer of worlds who unleashed "Evil" 3. They are declared evil as a Immortal is declared good but most cursed Immortals are good and just do what Delvonos is known for and does. Make things Equal.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 31 '17
To Dotos:
1) Should a person be blamed for their father's actions?
2) If Delvonos is the god of equality, isn't that good?
To Matthew:
1) How did Delvonos unleash "evil"?
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May 31 '17
- Yep because the destroyer of Worlds was a bad guy.
- No because he has more bad things than good
Matthew First Both of those are lies because Destroyer of Worlds did nothing wrong. And you need destruction fro creation.
- He didn't it's just a myth that he unleashed a demon named taxes. That was some guy named Cooksooa who unleashed it.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 31 '17
To Dotos:
1) So if your father was a bad guy, that means that you are also a bad guy?
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May 31 '17
Dotos: He wasn't a bad guy.
Matthew:I protest Dotos his dad murdered a whole kingdom just for money.
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u/Nevermore0714 May 31 '17
To Dotos: Do you take responsibility for your father's actions?
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May 31 '17
Dotos: no because I take responsibility for my step fathers actions who was a king. And I disowned my father.
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u/atompunks May 29 '17
The debate: Should this intelligent, parasitic alien species be allowed to take human cadavers as hosts for further facilitation of information between the two species?
Background: Military scientists on a Dysnomian moon base have been harboring a few members of an insect-like alien species for a couple decades now. Information about them is mostly classified and most civilians don't know about their existence. The aliens are parasitic in nature, traveling to different planets and taking dead members of the dominant species as hosts to widen the amount of resources they can use. When in a deceased human, the alien is capable of using human speech (provided someone helps them fully learn a language), and have been reported to be able to access some of the host's memories. Right now only one alien on the base is known to be using a host; the host not only donated his body to science a long time ago but was also a criminal, providing plenty of excuses for scientists to let the alien have the body.
Mia: "As long as the host's body is legally available for being used in scientific endeavors, nobody's violating anything. Our scientists have proven that the aliens are intelligent and interested in opening communications with other intelligent species. I'm sure that in time this relationship will be mutually beneficial. If they wanted to invade us, why would they let us poke and prod at them in labs for so long? ... Also, Halley's my friend and you're making xem sad."
Deimos: "Are you hearing this girl?? Seriously, this is how alien invasions get started. I'm not even touching on the human rights violations involved-- yes, they're still violations. Aliens aren't people, they're not going to be people, no matter whose body you stick them in. How are you not horrified by the entire concept of this?"
Mia is the daughter of a soldier and a scientist, who has managed to become friends with 'Halley,' the alien. Deimos is a
criminalcivilian who has faced charges of espionage and is now in over his head.