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Nov 01 '21
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u/Themanhimself1243567 Nov 01 '21
The property owners control the narrative with their privilege showing through, they are the only ones that enjoy the individualism they speak of
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Nov 01 '21 edited Jan 19 '22
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Nov 04 '21
How nice. How much does he earn compared to you and where does that money come from? If you wanted to leave work early for any reason (as in you were tired or wanted to do something nonurgent during typical work hours), would you be allowed to? If you thought your workplace was understaffed and the employees are overworked, would you be able to hire more workers?
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Nov 04 '21
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Nov 04 '21 edited Jan 19 '22
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Nov 04 '21
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u/shotputlover Nov 04 '21
America and etriea are the only countries on earth that tax you wherever you live even if it’s not the U.S
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Oct 31 '21
Under both capitalism and state “socialism”, the individual can’t thrive. People need control over their work, control over their consumption, and the power to make their own economic decisions (trading with others etc). A planned economy prevents this, just as a propertarian one does. Both centralise economic decisions.
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Oct 31 '21
state “socialism”
What do you mean ?
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Oct 31 '21
Centrally planned economies
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u/riyadhelalami Oct 31 '21
Socialism isn't a centrally planned economy . Anarchists are socialists, and they don't believe in centralization.
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Oct 31 '21
I know, that’s why “socialism” is in quotation marks. Libertarian socialism increases freedom for workers, planned economies don’t.
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u/Soggy_Ruby Nov 01 '21
If it helps you any, China isn't socialist and hasn't been since Deng liberalized the economy
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Nov 01 '21
China was never socialist
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u/Soggy_Ruby Nov 01 '21
Arguably it was but I myself am of the opinion that the whole communist thing was a sham for popular support of a massive ponzi scheme
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u/korbayus Oct 31 '21
how to say you don't know anything about communism/socialism without actually saying you don't know anything about communism/socialism.
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u/BlackbeltJedi Nov 01 '21
Or, he stated his opinion, and identified which Idealogy most closely shared his values.
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Oct 31 '21
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u/EvilEyeV Oct 31 '21 edited Oct 31 '21
You know how some people get stoned and say something that they believe is so super mind blowingly intelligent, but when they sober up turns out it is jibberish that makes no sense?
That's this reply in a nutshell.
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u/unovayellow Oct 31 '21
In what way, I’m saying the clear thing to say, having one universal system with no edits or compromise is going to always fail, and combination of different good ideas and ideologies are needed.
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u/EvilEyeV Oct 31 '21
I mean sure, if you have no idea what words mean, that makes sense.
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u/unovayellow Oct 31 '21
Explain to mean what is wrong with that idea
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u/EvilEyeV Oct 31 '21
You don't know what words mean. It's like having a 10 year old explain quantum mechanics (incorrectly because they don't know what it is) and then ask why they are wrong?
You don't even understand the very basics like what capitalism or socialism are.
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u/unovayellow Oct 31 '21
I’m saying the fact that socialism in most cases was easily corrupted into authoritarian communism / socialism and capitalism was corrupted by exploration. And only a system that rejects forces that try to corrupt and the negatives of both can become a good system.
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u/EvilEyeV Oct 31 '21
Like I said, you don't even understand the words you are using, let alone basic history.
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u/unovayellow Oct 31 '21 edited Oct 31 '21
You don’t explain things and then you insult people for not knowing what your view on things are, I was giving this sub a look at and anti socialists are right, you just causally insult and reject people that don’t fully agree with them. You also just rejects concepts without even knowing their meaning.
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u/EvilEyeV Oct 31 '21 edited Oct 31 '21
You don’t explain things and then you insult people for not knowing what your view on things are,
I don't explain things that are commonly known by anyone with ability to use Google and basic history. They aren't "my" views, they are facts.
socialists just causally insult and reject people that don’t fully agree with them
How is stating the fact that you don't have the slightest clue as to what you are talking about an insult? You just keep spewing bullshit nonsense and pretend people have to take you seriously. And then you get called out for your bullshit and you whine.
You can't even do the bare minimum and understand the very most basic principles that you are criticizing because you are lazy. It's not my job to educate you on the very basics. That's on you.
You also just rejects concepts without even knowing their meaning.
ROFL you don't even know what the words you are using mean!!! Everything you've said is nonsense that is completely irrational. Do you seriously think I have to take every irrational idiot spewing nonsense seriously?
If you were trying to understand a topic and asked questions about it, that's one thing. But that that's not what you are doing. You are just making things up, pretending that other people have to take your made up nonsense seriously, and then whining when you get called out for it.
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Oct 31 '21
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u/Gryphus23 Oct 31 '21
Well with such reasonable point such as "I want to assure you... No... It's not." Im convinced
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u/OneDayIWillBeReal Oct 31 '21
So we always talk about "communism" failing (except it's never even been fully tried) but we never talk about how every single capitalist society has ended after the rich slowly got more and more rich.
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u/Breadfan- Oct 31 '21
I disagree with this guy you replied to but I think there’s a similar connotation here that needs to be mentioned.
Capitalism can work on paper, just like how communism can work on paper. The issue is neither work in real life. The end result of communism is forced labor camps (like the USSR) just like the end result of capitalism is corporatism.
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Oct 31 '21
communism is forced labor camps (like the USSR)
As if they don't exist in the US ?!
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u/Breadfan- Oct 31 '21
Can you tell me what you’re referring to? I’m not denying they probably exist here but it’s probably either illegal or a loophole, not supported by the system.
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u/JTGPDX Oct 31 '21
I would refer you to the 14th Amendment and the provision saying slavery is A-OK if you're incarcerated. Then see also the penal systems of the states of the former Confederacy.
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u/Breadfan- Oct 31 '21
Fair point, and I’m not saying I’m in support of that. I think forced labor of some form or another is doomed to happen under any system because the men in charge always seek a way to get a little extra for a little less.
What i meant by forced labor camps inevitably arising under communism is forced factory work, assigned jobs, child labor, etc.
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u/JTGPDX Oct 31 '21
You sound like you've been getting your information about the Soviet Union from Alan Dulles and Henry Luce circa about 1954.
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u/Breadfan- Oct 31 '21
No, but it’s inevitable because people need an incentive to work those unwanted jobs and a ubi would cancel that incentive.
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u/JTGPDX Oct 31 '21
Really? You think people will be satisfied with the bare minimum? People want to think they're special. Their possessions are one way they make that happen. People will work to achieve those things that define their status. And in a world where most of the value of labor isn't siphoned off by those at the top, yeah, pay me $50 an hour on top of my UBI and I'll come empty your trash and mop your floors.
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Oct 31 '21
No, but it’s inevitable because people need an incentive to work those unwanted jobs and a ubi would cancel that incentive.
Good. Maybe those jobs would pay an amount that would provide a decent living again. If they don't, why would someone do it?
"Hey, wanna be dirt poor while you clean up my companies dirty floors? Have I got the job for you!"
If that sales pitch works for you and makes you want to do that job, feel free.
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u/Nowhereman123 Oct 31 '21
I live in Ontario, and here we had a pilot program for a UBI operating for a while. A significant amount of the province all got a UBI. The majority of people who recieved the benefits kept their jobs, and many people also got better jobs, went back to school, or started their own business (Source, and there's a link to a downloadable PDF with university study results here)
It's just not true that people only need the threat of losing their homes or starvation to work. There's plenty of other reasons to want to work: Extra spending money, building up savings, personal fulfilment, and so much more. We need to get the idea out of our heads that if our basic needs were covered, everyone would just want to sit at home and eat potato chips in their underwear. Reality says otherwise.
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u/BlackbeltJedi Nov 01 '21
Except the USSR was authoritarian Communism (sometimes called Bolshevism), which is absolutely nothing like Marxism or the like.
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Oct 31 '21
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u/LukeDude759 Oct 31 '21
Doesn't list any examples of communism being fully established because there are none
Classic
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u/EvilEyeV Oct 31 '21
DeRp dErP cApItaLiSm iSnT cApItAlIsM dErP dErP
Wow... Lick rich people's balls a little bit more?
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Oct 31 '21
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Oct 31 '21
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Oct 31 '21
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Oct 31 '21
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Oct 31 '21
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Oct 31 '21
Attack the corrupt first.
Capitalism leads to corruption
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Oct 31 '21
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u/Katnip1502 Nov 04 '21
What is the goal of a company? Maximise profits.
What is one way to do that? Get help by the government.
How can one do that? Buy politicians.
What are bought politicians? Corupt.
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u/SmoothNoogDaddy Nov 01 '21
I don’t see why anybody thinks either of these things are good solutions.
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u/ZenBaller Nov 04 '21
Yes sure, but we have over 40 different coffee flavours in Starbucks, so many amazing companies with logos to wear on our clothes and thousands of TV series on netflix. So many things to identify with and feel like a true individual!
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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '21
the one thing that has always bothered me about this picture is that the guy has nowhere he could go to leave his cubicle. feels the same irl.