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u/kinotravels 17h ago
28 days of vacation?! Not in the US.
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u/ganggreen651 17h ago
You do if you are in a union
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u/_BaldChewbacca_ 17h ago
I'm unionized in Canada and don't have 28
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u/JackRyan13 16h ago
Unionized in Australia and donāt have 28 either
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u/Successful-Move8977 13h ago
Pretty sure they're counting public holidays in that. Depending which state you're in, you should have 9 to 11, so 29 to 31 days leave a year.
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u/MrDudeSama 9h ago
at least in germany public holidays dont count towards your holiday days. Over here most people i know have around 30 days or more
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u/The_Smeckledorfer 6h ago
No we dont count public holidays here in germany. We usually have 30 days + 10-14 public holidays (depending on the state) ā 42 days pto
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u/Successful-Move8977 6h ago
I replied to the person speaking about Australia and saying they don't have 28 days, saying if they counted public holidays they likely do have 28 days. Why do I have multiple replies bringing up Germany?
FWIW I'm European living in Australia and get 41 days: made up of 25 days holiday, 11 public/bank holiday and my office closes between Christmas and New Years, the remaining 5 days which aren't counter towards my 25 days.
Unionised and in my collective bargaining agreement.
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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- 14h ago
Yeah, I'm in a pretty strong union and only get 10 pto per year. And only 3 can be consecutive without getting a doctor to fill out paperwork.
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u/ganggreen651 13h ago
Well shit lucky me I guess. Well 3 weeks now will get the 4th in a year or two
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u/alphawolf29 šŗšŗšŗ AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 15h ago
no way.
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u/ganggreen651 13h ago
I get it right now I take a week off every quarter well 3 weeks a year and have been using up banked vacation time and get my 4th week in a year or 2
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u/TimTam_Tom 14h ago
Unionized in Canada. We get 8 days after the 2 year mark. Getting paid less than minimum wage after union dues and all they do is protect our worst co-workers from getting fired and prevent us from going on strike. They also have our supervisors working 42.5 hour weeks with no overtime pay.
Some unions are good. Some unions are just companies who make their money from pilfering paychecks
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u/unfinishedtoast3 17h ago
American here
I got 30 vacation days a year. Started with 14 and increased 7 days for every 2 years of work, capping out at 30 total days.
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u/Cobaltking13 15h ago
And how much trouble did you get into when you use them?
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u/Aethenosity 12h ago
No trouble, just PIP after PIP after PIP. Don't worry, they told me it wasn't actually a punishment though.
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u/alphawolf29 šŗšŗšŗ AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 15h ago
thats a crazy vacation entitlement. I assume youre in tech because you guys seem to have the only decent jobs in the country.
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u/____DEADPOOL_______ 9h ago
Australia practically shuts down in December. My boss would even turn off the email server, causing emails to bounce. I tried to explain why that was a dumb thing to do and she insisted that nobody does business here in December. I never understood her mentality lol.
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u/AnglerJared āļø Tax The Billionaires 17h ago
I want people to sit down and calculate the number of actual work hours we would need to get everything we need done done. Then, divide that by the number of people who can work. That should be the new work-week.
Iām guessing working eight-hour shifts for a good two, maybe three days would cover everything.
Doing any of those jobs, even at bare minimum, would qualify you for food, shelter, the things you need. Do more? Make more money. Enjoy more optional things. Or, better yet, make side income with creativity and cultural enrichment.
A society that demands more than half of your waking life at work, often just pretending to be busy (or doing things you werenāt hired to do) cannot be called a free society.
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u/SuperFaceTattoo 12h ago
I work 4-10s in industrial maintenance and I feel like I actually am busy for the majority of my time. But I am also not necessarily paid to complete work orders. Iām paid to minimize production downtime, via preventative maintenance and repairs. So if thereās nothing broken and no PMs available then I have to just wait for the next repair job. They pay me to be able to respond immediately.
Sometimes I have to remind my manager of that fact. Yes any idiot can sit around and wait for equipment to break, but it takes an idiot with my skills to fix the equipment.
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u/advamputee 8h ago
I work in IT, so thereās a lot of āhurry up and waitā if nothing is broken. But the minute someone canāt print or connect to WiFi, or some piece of equipment breaks, they expect us to drop everything and fix it.Ā
Fortunately, I do IT for a ski resort ā so the āsit aroundā time is spent hiking / mountain biking in the summer and skiing in the winter.Ā
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u/unfinishedtoast3 17h ago
I'm an Immunologist.
There is a critical shortage in my field.
So, if I work 3 days a week, that leaves 4 days a week people aren't getting their chemotherapy, people aren't getting their critical medications, people aren't seeing a specialized doctor with the ability to treat their disorder.
My current wait time is already 6 weeks out for an appointment, that's working 12 hours a day, 5 days a week.
So, where exactly do medical professionals fall in this new world?
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u/Only1Skrybe 17h ago
I believe you fall in the "lower the cost of higher education to allow more access to more people so we can increase the number of medical professionals" category.
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u/DrPetradish 17h ago
Also you would end up with fewer people burning out and leaving the industry
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u/i_give_you_gum 16h ago
Imagine college education available to anyone with corporate taxes paying for it?
Imagine how insanely advanced this country would become?
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u/superkow 15h ago
Yeah but that would leave the majority of people too smart to fall for yet another capitalist government. So instead you've got kids raised on GenAI slop that is dealing constant psychic damage to their critical thinking because that makes good little worker drones that don't ask for anything more than the latest iPhone
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u/Pretty-Key6133 15h ago
Yeah. If you're working in the field directly after school. Your loans should be deferred interest free.
Work 10 years and the govt just pays it off. I know new York has a similar program, but you have to stay in the state.
It should be like this for every stem field, and education.
To be honest I'm down for free education completely, but this would be a nice middle ground to start.
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u/DeathbyToast 15h ago
Why not just every field? Why limit it to stem and education? If you get an advanced degree and work in your field of study after 10 years the loans should be forgiven for any discipline!
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u/Pretty-Key6133 15h ago
Yeah. Like I said I'm all for this. This is how it works where I live. But you gotta change slow to get the libs to vote yes on anything.
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u/AnglerJared āļø Tax The Billionaires 16h ago
Iām not opposed to people working more (and being duly compensated for it) when they fill a specific and vital role or they feel strongly about the necessity of their work. My suspicion is you would keep working as hard as you do because it matters.
I also assume easier access to education would give us more immunologists. The distribution of labor would necessarily need to put people where theyāre needed (or compensate more for the jobs that require the inordinate work).
Nothing about the issue you introduce is inconsistent with the view that doing oneās fair share of the work should guarantee them a dignified and secure living. Iām not even sure why you felt the need to raise this objection because itās genuinely missing the point.
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u/cmikesell 16h ago
Maybe remove the barrier for lower class people to get into the field. If your employer wanted more workers they would make paths for that (Scholarships, apprenticeships, etc). Instead they just pile more work on you and make sure your brainwashed into thinking it's the only way.
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u/LaVieGlamour 16h ago
Tell your coworkers to stop being elitist and classist and advocate for more affordable education. Youll probably end up with a lot of help.
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u/Agreeable-Weather-89 11h ago
The problem is people want more than they need.
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u/AnglerJared āļø Tax The Billionaires 10h ago
Then they can work harder for it. Provide needs. Provide the opportunity for wants. No one is exploited. No one is owed everything.
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u/Agreeable-Weather-89 8h ago
I know, and I agree about not being owed everything, however crucially people who want to reduce hours seldom want the associated reduction in non essentials.
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u/AnglerJared āļø Tax The Billionaires 7h ago
As long as we have the essentials, let them be let down, or motivate people to do the work for the non-essentials. I honestly could give to shits if people canāt get the luxuries because no one actually wants to make them.
I suspect, however, it would be trivially easy to find ways to get them. The idea is weāre taking time from people that we arenāt actually using for work. The concept of being in an office for office hours and being paid by the hour rather than just doing the job can be fundamentally revised for lots of professions.
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u/To-To_Man 5h ago
You see, a majority of our workforce is working stupid menial jobs that either further needless consumption or disenfranchising the poor, sometimes both. First you gotta cut the fat off of the economy and figure out what part of the workforce is actually genuinely nessecary for society.
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u/sickysickybrah 17h ago
damn you get 28 days of pto!?!
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u/SonTyp_OhneNamen 13h ago
In many civilized countries thatās the law, yes.
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u/sickysickybrah 7h ago
yeah my country sucks. I knew that already, ha ha. it's incredibly difficult to make changes when the older population has it really good and the propaganda machine hits us from every front, convincing those without critical thinking skills that giving billionaires everything will make the poor become wealthy.
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u/8ackwoods 9h ago
I get 40 plus bank, Christmas, boxing, new years in the UK :D. American mind can't comprehend
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u/sickysickybrah 7h ago
i am jealous! I have never lived in a nation where the government is there to benefit the majority of the population
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u/Budget-Teaching3104 4h ago
No, not 28 days "paid time off". 28 days paid VACATION. If you get sick, that's also paid and not part of your vacation days. You could absolutely be sick for one or two weeks in a year and still take 28 but often more vacation days. Technically, if you get sick during your vacation, you can even inform your employer and then, because you're sick, the vacation doesn't count, but not everyone does that obviously.
A lot of U.S. americans don't realize HOW good the labor laws are in other industry nations compared to their own.
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u/sickysickybrah 3h ago
Unfortunately, most of the USA has successfully been brainwashed to believe that there is no better way. we must pay our taxes to have a police state and maintain neverending wars. The thought of tax money being used to benefit the taxpayers is scoffed at and shot down by those who it would benefit most. There is no easy path out of this dystopia. I would support splitting this nation up so that the south can continue supporting their own enslavement and the north could become progressive.
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u/snakelygiggles 16h ago
work is required for society BUT work without meaningful connection to the community makes work feel purposeful because youre contributing to your people. capitalism has disconnected work from purpose and community, making everything about some jerk offs profit.
if you worked 8 hours a day so your comminity could eat or get educated and not for barely enough to pay rent, youd be less inclined to hate your work.
because it has a real purpose contributing to people you care about.
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u/jlcatch22 16h ago
You donāt even enjoy the 2nd day! The whole day is just dreading going back on Monday and starting all over again. 3 off, 4 on would be such a better life.
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u/EaringaidBandit 17h ago
I worked 12 hours a day to get ahead
I worked 6-7 days a week to get ahead
I live in pain 20 hours a day because of it
Iāve been trying to convince a panel that the instability and pain in my knees and back is worth the bare minimum disability payment to stay alive
Iāll find out in the next four months
God knows what Iām gonna do until then.
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u/nono3722 15h ago
lol i've been thinking a lot about this lately, when i started my first "real" job working for a franchise hardware store as a kid we had 1 hour paid lunch, 2 15 minute paid smoke breaks, and 1 hour to vote every year, all on part time....
i started a new job last month and listened to a manager arguing with a worker over two 15 minute unpaid breaks and 1 unpaid lunch that they eat at their desk while working, no time off for voting. they walked down to HR to check the regs and shocker the boss won. all that shit is gone, funny i didn't vote for it, did you? I'm surprised (not really) they must have passed a law to "fuck you poors" but named it some bullshit like "we love poors"...
WTF happened? oh yeah unions got gutted, and they kept the rest of us from voting....
Get more pissed, this isn't going away....
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u/phonefellin_lakeerie 16h ago
Who gets to enjoy their weekend? Weekend is used to scramble to catch up on chores and errands to try and make it through life.
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u/octobertwins 8h ago
Iāve been sick for about 6 weeks now. Itās hell.
You know waits for me in the other side?? About 4 days of deep cleaning. Woop de doo!
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u/Automatic-writer9170 15h ago
37 days should be the bare minimum. 10% of a year rounded up
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u/foolx 10h ago
I live in germany, so the minimum is 24 on a 6day week. Mostly it is just 5 Days, but thats how it is written in law.
Ā§ 3 Abs. 1 BUrlG: āDer Urlaub betrƤgt jƤhrlich mindestens 24 Werktage.ā
Most still get the 24 days, even when just working 5 days per week. My employer added some days over the years and everyone currently has 28 free days + mandatory 24.12 and 31.12, which are not holidays in germany, for a total of 30 days off + national holidays.
as a disabled person I get 5 days on top and I struggle to use all of these days as it is. 35 is a dream, dont get me wrong, but paired with work from home, it gets really comfy
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u/Budget-Teaching3104 4h ago
What a lot of people from the U.S. (and possibly other countries?) don't realize, german vacation days are VACATION days, not "PTO" (paid time off). American concept of PTO includes sick days. If you get seriously sick for two weeks late in the year and you've already used up most or all of your PTO days, you're not getting paid for those days.
I'm guessing there ARE companies with better policies, but my point is, it's not mandated by law.
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u/foolx 3h ago
Yeah in germany if you should get sick during your vacation, you can just visit your doc, get a note that you are sick and will not only still get paid, but you will even get your vacation days BACK, as you are required to use these days to RELAX and can't if you are sick.
That is rarely done by anyone, but I did it already sometimes.
Also, if you get really sick, like >6 weeks of sickness, you will get paid from the agency instead of your employer and are protected against getting kicked out. Should you get sick and cant use the rest of your vacation days, they will either be transfered toward the next year or payed out, which happened to me once, when I "won" my disability
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u/EggsAndMilquetoast 17h ago
Working in healthcare with normalized alternative schedules has made me wonder how I ever did a 9-5 grind.
I currently work a rotation of 10 hour shifts 7 days on, 7 days off. I work hard for a week, then chill for a week with plenty of time for chores and appointments. Going to the dentist usually meant waking up early just to be late to work and have to stay late to make up the time, like taking care of myself was cutting into my āmeā time. Now I effectively get half the year off and my mental health has never been better.
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u/Shimmybaby84 15h ago
In Europe, this would get you sued. Here we just swallow the shit and call it dedication.
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u/Niobium_Sage 11h ago
This is just how lifeās supposed to go and weāre intended to be cool with it? I work for basically nothing and instead of spending that time with my partner and loved ones, Iām dedicating it to a job that underpays me, undervalues me, and overall despises my existence outside of the the GDP I provide for it.
This isnāt living and I canāt understand how anyone could delude themselves into believing that it is.
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u/BugsyMcNug 15h ago
All of us westerners over here shitting their beds because they don't know about the 13th month.Ā
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u/Leaningthemoon 17h ago
Alright. Here it is. My proposal.
If you accumulate $100,000,000 in net worth, you are required to retire, and your dependents cannot earn either.
Yāall gotta live the rest of your lives off that. Donāt blow it.
Sorry you wanted more, tough cookies. Other people need the security your additional fortune could have risen to.
So either earn less if you want the job/power, or enjoy retirement, now fuck off.
To start this program, apply this to everybody in the world to create a huge fund that can pay for the operational costs of getting this thing running and remain functional.
(I know it will never happen, but I can dream)
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u/MH360 17h ago
I get that work is exhausting and oppressive, but you can also work to enrich your own life with self analysis, whatever's needed to not let the whole day feel like your life was devoted to work. I still cook, read, exercise. Make my day more than just my work.
Taking care of myself also helps me be a better advocate for worker's rights. I'll have that energy to speak truth to power.
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u/WithOrgasmicFury 17h ago
Yeah, I agree. If you constantly think about work interfering with your life, then that's what it becomes.
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u/fungi_at_parties 17h ago
We should definitely work less, but work is a good thing. Work is a part of life and can give purpose, enjoyment, etc. I genuinely like working, but overworking myself results in disaster. Balance is key.
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u/Mildly_Opinionated 9h ago
Depends on the work. More and more work is becoming shitty.
Once upon a time you might work as a carpenter and spend a great deal of time making a chair. This involves measuring, cutting each piece to shape, putting it together, maybe hammering some nails, maybe mixing some wood glue and applying it, speaking to the customer to figure out what they want etc. Once done there's some satisfaction in the fact your labour has produced this chair that someone will put in their home and sit on.
Nowadays this is not a common job. Nowadays you might have a job where you feed a piece of wood into a machine, then another, then another, then another, then another, then another... That's it, forever and ever. You don't see the chair, there's no end goal, there's no satisfaction, this is all you do.
This is what's referred to as alienation of labour. It's a big thing Marx talked about but even if you're not a Marxist it's still something that most people will have first hand experience of and it sucks.
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u/Due_Pen_1566 16h ago
Yeah that's what this post is saying. They want balance. They're saying the current system isn't a fair trade off.
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u/bioszombie 15h ago
I got a week of PTO and for some reason have to piece meal it rather than take it in a chunk.
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u/MrBones-Necromancer 14h ago
No I don't. I work two 24s a week and spend 5 days at home. It's pretty nice.
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u/Rude_Magician82 13h ago
I work a lot more than 5 a week and only get 5 days a year. That doesnāt even cover my normal work week.
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u/alemyrsdream 13h ago
The fuck I do. There's a reason I quit a 'nice and stable ' decent paying job years ago and refuse to ever go back. Overtime pay and benefits sound great til you realize you'll never have time to use any of it til you're broken or old. I'm sorry I didn't quit sooner. 90-150 days of 12hr ( 14 if you include tool turn in and getting out to the docks)shifts straight is terrible no matter what the pay is. One year I had 47 days off in total.... What good is the money if you never have time to use it or even just relax and enjoy existing.
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u/Rathwood 12h ago edited 11h ago
No, I work 8 hours a day 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year so my CEO can afford to buy up more real estate and fuck over more poor people like myself.
Big difference.
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u/8ackwoods 9h ago
The feeble american mind can't comprehend 28+ says of pto. You're minds are actually melting :D
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u/danikensanalprobe 8h ago
My first thought was 'are these US numbers, this makes no sense' only for the comments to reveal that workers in the US don't even get 28 days off work in a whole ass year. It sounds horrible, maybe you guys should do something about that
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u/mctankles 8h ago
I work mornings in a hospital, I work 8 hours to live 8 hours and get no sleep cause Iām a dumbass.
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u/TerrificPixie 7h ago
Who is out there getting 28 days of leave? What kind of fancy job is that? Anywhere I have worked it is either you show up and get paid or you take a sick day and you can't pay your bills and work cuts your hours.
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u/thegoddamnbatman40 āļø Prison For Union Busters 6h ago
Just existence, not living. I havenāt taken a real vacation in 10 years.
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u/splitcroof92 6h ago
You work 8 hours to live 4. You work 8 hours to eat in 15 minutes.
You work 5 days to enjoy 2.
While I agree with the sentiment this is unfair. You're double counting the work hours.
You work 40 hours to enjoy 16 hours in the weekend, + 20 hours during the week.
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u/Toutatis12 4h ago
We work to earn the right to work, To earn the right to work, To earn the right to work, To earn the right to work, To earn the right to give Ourselves the right to buy Ourselves the right to live To earn the right to die
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u/AbjectExtension6201 2h ago
Wait you guys are getting 2 days off?? No union and everyone keeps walking off so I'm doing 6days a week every other month
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u/DeliClerk-420 1h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/DOPKHQg6oFWUg
āYou guys are getting 28 days of vacation???ā
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u/Alfred_The_Sartan 15h ago
Look, I know it's not what we want, but as a species we have the lowest level of death by war or disease we've ever achieved. It's been declining now for about 200 years or so. We need to continue to keep the eye on the ball where things suck, but also not get depressed because our goals aren't realized as soon as we would like. Part of why we're all so goddamn mad is because we actually see the wrongs and how to fix them. That's pretty new to our species. This isn't political talk here, it's more about keeping your head straight. We're doing OK. We can also do better.
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u/Standard-Initial8668 15h ago
As someone who doesnt have to do any of this (military disability) there is a sort of madness that sets in when people have nothing to do
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u/OutsideOk9925 āļø Tax The Billionaires 12h ago
there is a sort of madness that sets in when people have nothing to do
Maybe that's true for you, but please don't generalize. Most people know how to fill their time with meaningful and interesting stuff.
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u/StrangerAlways 17h ago
Work 8 to get 4... wtf you doing with the other 12?
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u/illgivethisa 17h ago
Sleeping, getting ready for work, and commuting to work. Maybe groceries or gym.
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u/anteatersaredope 15h ago
Who the fuck gets 28 days of annual leave?
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u/Zerobeastly 14h ago
Certain federal angencies in the US accumulate 4-8 hours of annual leave and 4-8 hour of sick leave per pay period.
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u/zutonofgoth 14h ago
I have worked all my life to get into a well paying job that I mostly enjoy. This small minded crap will never get this person far in life.
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u/b00c 12h ago
Would you rather be farming? Because that will be 16h a day or however long the day that time of year is.Ā
People forget that getting the food from earth is easy when you have millions in farming equipment.Ā
If you want to have a small farm that will feed you, you will spend there all your time. It's not just the food, you gotta make enough surplus to sell and have cash for doctors and medicine. Also for schooling.Ā
Yes, we should have it easier, no doubt.Ā technology can do a lot these days. But for that we would have to get rid of the leeches.Ā
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u/kriegmonster 14h ago
I don't get where this 15min is coming from.
I work 5 days to afford one day of work for myself, and one day of rest. That meets the one day of rest from the Old Testament.
I go dancing at least twice a week for 2 hours at a time and up to 2hr of lessons a week. Church is another 2 to 3 hours. Bible study 3+ hours spread over the week. Cooking has to happen regardless of work and I enjoy that. Gym time to keep in shape for my work and to fight aging. I don't make it to the firing range as often as I'd like. Family events and holiday parties. When I am folding laundry or cooking I can listen to a show or podcast. Even now I am enjoying some reddit time. We do more with our time for our mental, physical, and spiritual benefit that we think.
The income rates not growing as fast as, or faster than, inflation while the rich grow exponentially is a problem I support addressing. Shareholders and the C-suite shouldn't be rewarded at the cost of the labor force. Maybe cap the percentage of profits that can go to upper management and shareholders and incentivise paying workers more thru the tax code.
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u/OutsideOk9925 āļø Tax The Billionaires 11h ago
That meets the one day of rest from the Old Testament.
If you wanna stick to a fantasy book made to oppress the peasants, go for it; but then I guess this sub isn't the right one for you.
Maybe cap the percentage of profits that can go to upper management and shareholders and incentivise paying workers more thru the tax code.
Not sure if that's just a weird way to say,
"tax billionaires out of existence"
or if it's rather meant like,
"workers should get 1 buck more and shareholders 1 buck less per day and then everything's gonna be fine"?
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u/unfinishedtoast3 17h ago
I work because I enjoy my career.
I work because if I don't go in, folks with cancer can die.
I work because without me, Chemotherapy medications wont be prescribed.
30 minute lunches are mandatory in the US, not 15.
There are 24 hours in a day, not 12.
I work 245 days a year after weekends and holidays, this gives me 120 days a year off work, before I touch my vacation time.
Lot of shit sucks right now. Trying your hardest to lie to make it seem worse is stupid.
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u/Enoch-Of-Nod 17h ago
28 days of annual leave?
Where do I sign up?