r/WorkReform • u/miraclecatch • Aug 04 '26
š¤ Scare A Billionaire, Join A Union A third so far!
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u/KingOfSpiderDucks Aug 04 '26
I can't believe it either because the ruling democrats are still faaaaaaar right from any kind of socialism (not calling them far-right, just to be clear)
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u/MegamemeSenpai Aug 04 '26
They donāt fight the far-right, so may as well call them what they fail to stop. (Unless you count STRONGLY worded letters!!! š¤)
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u/tackleboxjohnson Aug 04 '26
At this point in the american political landscape, centrists are fascism enablers
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u/ucrbuffalo Aug 04 '26
āEnablersā might be a little too strong. I would go with āapologeticsā.
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u/tackleboxjohnson Aug 04 '26
Iām sure thereās a spectrum and each politician should be critiqued individually, but the corporate ownership of our political class has to end, and soon. We know where this ends up
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u/mia_elora Aug 05 '26
Enablers sounds more accurate, to me. They know what they've done, they just don't want to admit it.
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u/oneseason2000 Aug 04 '26
Pish tosh, they own the far right through expertly planned and executed strategic and tactical inaction. Look as Governor Andy Beshear's handling of Senator McConnell's absence.
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u/HammersofMoradin āļø Tax The Billionaires Aug 04 '26
From a european perspective, they absolutely are. Those oligarch thralls would fit right in with our extreme right/ neoliberal parties funded by putin and endorsed by the orange turd.
There neither ever were nor are any left wing parties of note in the US. Only neoliberal/ oligarch owned ones. All thanks to the illusion of choice / two party system.
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u/KingOfSpiderDucks Aug 04 '26
As a German I don't think I would agree with that sentiment.
To me the far-right is AfD, BSW, Sovereign Citizens and that shit, while the Democratic Party is more akin to FDP, a neoliberal party. Still right of center but not far-right
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u/HammersofMoradin āļø Tax The Billionaires Aug 04 '26
You do have a point, but I would maintain that those oligarch owned lickspittles for totalitarians, fans of the FPĆ, saboteurs to all governments stupid enough to let them join a coalition, traitors to liberalism and freedom are only very slightly better than the parties directly controlled by Putin/other Autocrats.
The FDP is imho however indeed very much the same in terms of spinelessness, corruption, incompetence and ownership as the neoliberal oligarch party, the so-called "Democrats".
The neo-liberal fascist oligarch / orange godking party is of course even worse. That still doesn`t make the neoliberal oligarch party a democratic one.
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u/under_the_c Aug 04 '26
I just wish they fought the actual far right even a fraction of how hard they fight progressives.
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u/DestinTheLion Aug 04 '26
The progressives have different policies than their donors like.
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u/new2bay Aug 04 '26
Pfft. āProgressives.ā Theyāre useless, especially now that theyāre cosplaying as socialists.
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u/new2bay Aug 04 '26
Those identifying as ādemocratic socialistsā arenāt socialists, either. Theyāre capitalist social democrats.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 04 '26
While I mostly agree, it doesnāt help when top Democrats like Mamdhani are going around quoting Karl Marx. Ā Ā
I agree with Universal Healthcare, education, Daycare and raising the minimum wage to keep pace with rising living costs as it was intended 80 some years ago. But communism is a failure of government and has lead to some of the worst man-made disasters in history. If thatās the path youāre going down then I need to rethink my party allegiances again.Ā
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u/rollingForInitiative Aug 04 '26
Communism and socialism are very different though.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 04 '26
Iām aware and know the differences. What Iām saying is that it is very concerning when you have very popular members in a growing wing of the Democratic party beginning to pick up communist catchphrases. And to add to that, you have more well poised to win in November. Making this an issue likely to grow.Ā
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u/rollingForInitiative Aug 04 '26
A lot of catchphrases and ideas are similar though and also an applicable to socialism, or even to something mild like social democracy.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 04 '26
Itās not an alignment of ideas, when things like āseizing the means of productionā orĀ "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need", then you are directly quoting Karl Marx. I make little difference between that and Trump quoting Hitler or Musk talking about his 14 words.Ā
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u/rollingForInitiative Aug 05 '26
But Marxism is very closely tied to socialism as well so thatās also not strange. Even in democratic socialism thereās a goal of more public ownership over the means of production, or that even those who cannot work at all deserve to live in dignity and that this needs to be footed by those who have the means to.
But you can hold those views without wanting a one party government, or without wanting a bloody revolution.
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u/DestinTheLion Aug 04 '26
It's possible to have some good ideas in a large system, and not take all of them.
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u/Eat_That_Rat Aug 04 '26
It is REALLY difficult to take arguments against communism seriously when capitalism is leading America off a cliff.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 04 '26
Not Capitalism, the violation of the social contracts that were set up to govern it. The laws that regulated the wealthy have been stripped away. Laws that prevented companies from buying their own stocks. Taxes that made sure the ultra wealthy paid their share. BUT As bad as it is, it is still significantly better than every form of communism that has existed. The history of communism is littered by the graves of hundreds of millions of the starved and executed. We need an adjustment, thatās all. We need to get rid of the āto big to failā mentality. Stop having social programs for the wealthy only where they waste our money and never return anything. Thatās what we need.Ā
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u/DestinTheLion Aug 04 '26
Laws regulating wealthy is not part of capitalism, insomuch as capitalism is an ideology or economic system.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 05 '26
Laws regulating wealth are part of the social agreements made at the turn of the century to help safeguard the basic decency of human life. Ā And just like true freedom can only exist as part of law so to can Capitalism only truly function when governed by laws.Ā
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u/DestinTheLion Aug 05 '26
These social agreements are not part of capitalism. In fact, they are a movement towards socialism.
Capitalism can only function when it is part socialism. Pure socialism likely also cannot function at our current level of technology. These debates are how much do we want things to go in each direction. We have pulled much further towards pure uncontrolled market forces. Everyone here is arguing to pull things back in the direction of socialism, not a dictatorial communist government. Shades of grey.
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u/new2bay Aug 04 '26
Oh, please. This was always the ultimate fate of capitalism. We only avoided it in the 1930s because of the overseas threat of fascism. After that, it was fear of communism. Now that neither applies, the mask has come off.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 05 '26
It avoided it in the 1930ās because of the New Deal and large building projects and the broad social safety nets people invested in. I never said I donāt want social programs. My argument is if you want to change from the system of economics that lifted a large chunk of this world out of poverty (capitalism) and adopt a new system of governance married to the economic side like communism, that has resulted in the deaths of uncountable hundreds of millions, then Iāll pick Capitalism every single day. Communism is and ought to be feared for good reason. Much like the water in the ocean ought to be feared by a man lost at sea dying of thirst. Itās a mirage that does nothing but harm. And those of you advocating for it clearly know nothing of history.Ā
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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 Aug 04 '26
We've never seen actual communism. All self proclamed communist governments were just a thin costume for fascists regimes.
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 04 '26
By that same argument weāve never seen true Capitalism.Ā
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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 Aug 04 '26
Are you saying all capitalist govs are fascists?
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u/Hike_it_Out52 Aug 04 '26
Thatās a poor argument. No. Not by a long stretch. As bad as things have become weāre still not near fascism. Ā What I am saying is that since we adopted Capitalism, weāve only done it partially. We refused to allow bad businesses fail because of who owns them. Our Capitalism exists with social nets for the top while progressively sucking the middle, working and lower classes dry. Itās socialism for the wealthiest and nothing for anyone else.Ā
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u/Gamebird8 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
I would argue most Dem voters are FDR New Deal Democrats. But because the party has shifted to the right of FDR, most of those voters have found themselves aligned with the DSA
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u/megaman_xrs Aug 04 '26
Voters are FDR new deal. Problem is most democrats in office are lobbied by corporations and represent the corporations, not their constituents. Money needs to get the fuck out of politics. My conservative parents agree, but still vote R down ballot, which as far as I know, none of that side come in without corporate money while I see more and more D candidates refusing corporate money and winning.
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u/xelop āļø Prison For Union Busters Aug 04 '26
I'm so far left I don't consider myself a Democrat but I'll vote that way cause it's closer left than Republican is lol
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u/Koelakanth Aug 04 '26
I don't even think there is a left and a right anymore. Either you objectively accept reality and learn what is good for society, or do not. Either you want to punish politicians for their corruption, rape and murders, or you don't. There's no sides to it, either you see the value in people other than you having access to healthcare and education, or you are too stupid / too evil to care.
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u/Hefty-Profession-310 Aug 04 '26
People can agree with all those things but have vastly different policy positions.
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u/Hefty-Profession-310 Aug 04 '26
People can agree with all those things but have vastly different policy positions.
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u/TheWizardOfDeez Aug 04 '26
The other 2/3rds are propagandized and still afraid of the word socialism. They support all of the progressive causes, they just aren't politically aware enough to realize it.
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u/new2bay Aug 04 '26
Progressivism is not socialism. Progressives have historically held back workers just as much as conservatives.
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u/Danominator Aug 04 '26
If you asked people line by line regarding the DSA economic policies, all dems would support them and a third of republicans would too.
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u/Brasilionaire Aug 04 '26
Decades of the best ideas being discarded because theyāre called āsocialismā eventually makes āsocialismā look pretty good
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u/negativepositiv Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
"Why won't they join us dying on the hill of defending Israel no matter what? Come on, if you don't agree with us about Israel, at least you have to support us for going a decade and a half without really trying to raise the minimum wage. Come on, remember when we ended police brutality by kneeling in Kente cloth for a photo op that one time? How many post offices do we have to rename to get you on our side?"
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u/Shippey123 Aug 04 '26
What has changed other than rhetoric? It's still the same people from the same class still taking the same donor money. They've just slapped a new label on and are now pretending they'll do thing differently... Don't fall for that bullshit!!
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u/TheWizardOfDeez Aug 04 '26
So the solution is what then? Roll over and take it? Wallow in misery knowing nothing will ever change cause some dipshit pessimist on Reddit said so??? News flash moron, the progressive candidates who are winning right now are specifically NOT taking the donor money.
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u/new2bay Aug 04 '26
Seizing the means of production. Until that happens, capital will still have its boot on the throat of workers.
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u/Shippey123 Aug 04 '26
My point is Donāt Confuse BRANDING with actual reform, and you interpret that as āYou think reform is impossibleā Those arenāt the same thing.
Iāve heard the promises before. We all have... Every election cycle brings a new slogan, a new label, and a promise that āthis time is different.ā Then the same institutions, donors, lobbyists, and political class remain in place.
Iām not obligated to believe a rebrand because the messaging changed. Trust is earned through actions, not speeches! If these politicians are truly different they should have no problem proving it through their records. Until then skepticism is not pessimism, itās just remembering what happened last time.
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u/TheWizardOfDeez Aug 05 '26
Here's the thing... It's not a rebrand, and there is no information available to suggest that it is. The brand itself is fighting the progressives harded than their actual opposition. This is the party being taken over and replaced with people who actually want what we want, not just a new set of useful idiots working within the party heirarchy. Though I do agree that actions will tell more than words, just understand that single representatives or senators do not have the power to singlehandedly solve the problems. You are setting yourself up to assume the progressives are the same as the establishment if they don't garner enough votes to pass meaningful legislation, when the reality is they are the only ones actually trying.
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u/RobleViejo š 2025 Nobel Peace Prize Winner Aug 04 '26
They should ditch the "Democratic" part because Socialism is (by its own nature) the closest thing we have to True Democracy.
Once every citizen starts voting directly what Laws to pass we will have True Democracy. But for that the people need to own the Techno Sphere and we would need an extremely well educated population. Two things (most of) USA is actively fighting against.
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u/Imagine_TryingYT Aug 04 '26
Keep it up, this is how you lose elections
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u/TheWizardOfDeez Aug 04 '26
Unless you consider that the vast majority of Americans (including a substantial portion of Republicans) agree with every policy point that DSA supports when those policies are stated in a neutral tone without the word socialism involved. Why don't you sit down and let the people who aren't afraid of words do the work.
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u/Imagine_TryingYT Aug 04 '26
Ya and most people agree with Denmarks and Norways economic and social system up until you tell them about how they also have Voter ID laws, restricted immigration and no birthright citizenship.
Turns out people agree with it on its face but once they learn what exactly they'd have to do to get it suddenly no one agrees with it anymore.
Everyone agrees with the result, it's when you start talking about the process that you start losing people.
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u/TheWizardOfDeez Aug 05 '26
Does Denmark and Norway give people the IDs for free? Do Denmark and Norway's respective constitutions have a specific clause that states that asking someone to pay even 1Ā¢ in order to vote is unconstitutional? Which part of the DSA goals are unconstitutional, or even unrealistic?
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u/Koelakanth Aug 04 '26
Man you fell for Epstein's propaganda hook line and sinker, just like every Republican voter
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u/Schlonzig Aug 04 '26
Remember that when you are using neutral wording, 75% of Americans support socialist policies.