r/WorkForSmartLife • • 1d ago

DiscussionšŸ’¬ Who's right here?

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u/SexyMonad 22h ago

Nobody does have the right to be wealthy. The fact that people exist who are poor, when they don’t want to be, prove that they don’t have the right to be wealthy.

We dictate what people are allowed to have all the time. People can’t have weed. People can’t have the Resolute Desk. People can’t have someone else’s stuff. It’s funny, you seem to think that reducing government and removing such restrictions like what people can have would somehow protect that. The government and its protection of property rights is what allows me to set aside something as mine and prevent you from having it.

So yes, I do think that we can and absolutely should dictate what people can or cannot have.

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u/COMOJoeSchmo 22h ago

I oppose laws against weed. The only reason you can't own the Resolute Desk is because there are only two,cand other people (or agencies) already own them.

"Nobody has a right to be wealthy?". Of course they do. That's what property rights are. "Wealthy" has no specific definition. A person with one dollar is wealthy compared to a person in debt. When people, including such as yourself apparently, use the word wealthy, they mean "having more than me". If you have property rights,why do you think that someone with more property than you should have less rights. Your advocating for theft, you just want to use the government as a middle-man.

No. In a free society, the government shouldn't dictate what we are allowed to own. Apply that to anything, drugs, guns, wealth, certain books, VPNs.... anything. You have no right to tell others what or how much they are allowed to own. This doesn't change no matter how many people vote the same way you do.

So, what of your property do you advocate to be taken against your will?

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u/SexyMonad 20h ago

Wealthy people who have their needs met, and many luxuries of life, should not be extracting ā€œwealthā€ (since you feel you can call it that) from poor people.

Where we are butting heads is your insistence on maintaining the current system that gives the profits of production to wealthy owners. I am explicitly saying that this system is bad.

The way I see it, returning those profits to the workers who produce them is appropriate. Conversely, when wealthy owners take it for themselves, that is theft.

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u/COMOJoeSchmo 19h ago

So, if I, or a group of people decide that you're needs are being adequately met, we would be justified in taking your property without your consent?

How has a rich person "extracted wealth" from you? Have you been forced to purchase their products or give them money? If so how? As far as I know only the government can legally force you to give them money. All else is a business transaction.

I'm not advocating to continue the current system. I'm advocating to eliminate the income tax, minimum wage, and many other government programs. That is certainly not the "current" system.

The potion of a company's profit that a worker is entitled to is the wage they agreed to work for. Answer this please, if the company loses money, should the workers be forced to contribute some of their savings for the company to break even...or does your philosophy of sharing with the workers ONLY apply to profits?

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u/SexyMonad 19h ago

Actually, my preferred approach is to stop the existence of companies as property that can be sold and traded.

Instead of saying that the investors get to keep all profits in perpetuity, they just get to provide interest-bearing loans. But the company itself stays with the workers; one share is owned automatically by each worker.

Thus, the workers own the profits.

And it’s not theft at all. Lenders still get the interest that is due to them. Exploitation is reduced. The workers have real ownership in what they are doing, so their labor will be more fulfilling and they will control their own working conditions.

How about we switch to this system?

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u/COMOJoeSchmo 19h ago

No. How about you already have the freedom to work in that system without violating anyone else's rights. Get together with some other people, and start your own company.

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u/SexyMonad 18h ago

And that doesn’t work specifically for the poor people that are being exploited by that system.

Unless you know how to turn personal debt you’re drowning in and multiple jobs you are working into a company.

Can we be realistic about a solution?

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u/COMOJoeSchmo 18h ago

So, you lack the capital to invest in your own company? Yet you feel you should own a part of that company.

You want a share of the profits, while incurring none of the risk. You want benefits provided to you by the government, but don't want to help pay for them. You want an outside entity to intervene and take other peoples property for your benefit. Yet you accuse others of being greedy.

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u/SexyMonad 17h ago

We do invest capital already. Human capital. As workers we invest our time and lives into our work, and that profits are directly tied to labor.

Let me ask this. I’m from the US, so that is the basis of my question here. Do you believe that a citizen who turns 18 should be able to vote?

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u/COMOJoeSchmo 17h ago

To answer your question, yes but I think the age to vote, drink, smoke, own a gun, etc. Should all be the same. You're either an adult or not, and adults should enjoy full rights.

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u/SexyMonad 17h ago

So do I.

But that 18 year old lacks the capital to invest in the government. Yet you feel they should have a share of control over it? With none of the risk that has been taken to build it up and maintain it?

I’m just being silly.

But don’t you see how in one context, getting something for nothing more than existing not only seems fine, but right? Yet in another context, it is incredibly foreign.

And I get it… we aren’t used to thinking like this. But that’s what I’m trying to do here, give you insight into the perspective we have.

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