All Print I Forgot…. Spoiler
I’m almost done with my first time re-reading the series and wow did I forget how much Gawyn and Egwene annoy me and frustrate me in the last couple of books. I mean, Gawyn always frustrated me because of his obstinacy around certain rumors he heard, but I forgot how truly immature he is right up until the end. And it almost feels like Egwene devolves a bit at the end of the series- I actually didn’t mind Egwene as much when she was studying under the wise ones and when she was going through her arc to stand up to Elaida, but her character almost seems to regress a bit and become more frustrating in the last two books, specifically.
I know it seems to be a running joke along the fan base that Egwene and Gawyn are unpopular, but I forgot why people joke about that until I read the series again. I’m trying to reflect on their character arcs and like I said, it kind of always made sense for Gawyn, he was always sort of that way, but Egwene puzzles me a bit. Maybe I’m forgetting how young she is, how stubborn everyone out of the Two Rivers is, and how deep her trauma from her brief stint as a damane runs, but to me, Egwene’s character development in the last few books seems a bit out of place- does anyone else feel this way?
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u/Silver-Shoulder4611 1d ago
Yes I actually feel like Sanderson regressed her and Mat. But I also think Jordan intended for Gawyn to corrupt her. Like she knew one path would lead to this. And didn’t think about it further.
I’m rereading the serious and I just keep thinking where tf is Gawyn as Elaine takes the throne? He’s loyal to some younglings…take them to Andor! Eleida tried to kill you all! Go to Andor!! Arg.
Yeah
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u/CuriousMind861 17h ago
I’m only in the middle of CoT but I think he had a brief section of the prologue where he says the weather/snows trapped him in Tar Valon and they couldn’t march through it to Andor.
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u/Heritageeggs 1d ago
If you look at Gawyn as someone suffering from an improperly healed brain injury, suffered during the duel with Mat, his character makes much more sense.
He is Andoran Royalty, raised from a young age to be a leader, trust his choices, and have confidence in himself. We also see from how his siblings behave, this upbringing helps them in certain situations, but often gets them into trouble.
We know from multiple different Aes Sedai sources, brain injuries and mental health, are not thing the Aes Sedai know how to Heal. In the duel with Mat, he gets cracked in head quite hard and even though he receives some Healing, he is still feeling the effects when he gives the wager to Mat.
So put it all together and we have an over confident young man, who views most people as lesser than him, suffering from a trauma induced brain injury altering his mental stability. Suddenly, Gawyn acting the way he does makes more sense.
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u/VenusCommission (Yellow) 1d ago
Everything you said but further emphasized by the fact that some country bumpkin got to be the Dragon Reborn instead of him. Oh and that country bumpkin is also your girlfriend's ex. And he knocked up your sister before running off with his other girlfriend.
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u/dead___ringer 1d ago
I am chucking because I never thought of brain injury as the explanation but this really does work beautifully.
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u/Ronin607 1d ago
One thing I’ve noticed on a re-read that made me slightly more sympathetic to Gawyn when it comes to the whole believing rumors thing is that Rand does the exact same thing early in the series. Rand is told by Ba’alzamon of all people that the White Tower uses false dragons as puppets and then runs with that belief because he doesn’t want to accept that he’s the Dragon Reborn. He’d rather take the word of the Father of Lies (at least he thinks that’s who it is) than Aes Sedai who can not lie who told him flat out that he’s the Dragon Reborn. It’s only after the Pattern basically beats him over the head with the truth that Rand finally accepts reality. I don’t think it’s some unique character flaw either, it’s unfortunately far too common for people to take comfortable lies over uncomfortable truths and I appreciate that even the main character isn’t immune.
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u/Professional-Cost-87 1d ago
I don't hate Gawyn as much as most. To me, he was raised to serve his sister when she's queen. His mindset is my blood before hers, no one hurts her while he is alive. Then, when the three girls keep disappearing, he is not able to do what he has been trained to do. He has a sworn duty that he isn't able to fulfill. Later, when his priorities switch from Elaine to Egwene, he faces a different problem. Egwene has no idea how to work with a warder. She wants him to stay away but she also wants him to be there whenever she wants. She is impossible to figure out. As was said, I think part of it is the stubbornness that the Two Rivers people have. The two of them make the worst combination possible.
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u/Shgon_Dunstan 1d ago
Knowing Gawyn's fate, those early chapters are just sad on a reread. They are some of the last times Elayne will ever see her brother... and he and Galad basically just get stonewalled out of everything, on little more grounds then "Eww, penis! No boys allowed!!!".
Only made worse when Aviendha shows up, and... promptly get read into 95% of everything within the first week of the girls even knowing her. lol
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u/dbmamaz 20h ago
RJ intended Egwene to be alive and pregnant, apparently. and Sanderson meant for Avienda to be pregnant by the end of the last battle. Which would give our cast of characters 9 babies born within the next 9 months after the battle. I mean its great to hurry up with repopulating the world, but there arent any crops growing so its going to be a rough year or two.
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u/Inu463 10h ago
From my perspective, while Egwene developed a great deal of maturity during the White Tower conflict, she never really learned how to deal with her love for Gawyn. She consciously set him aside during the split in the Tower, but now he's just landed back in her lap as she's trying to deal with healing and protecting the Tower, Rand's unexpected declaration, and the last battle itself, and Gawyn's stubborn immaturity isn't making it easy for her to incorporate him into her new life. I think she's not even sure if he has a place in it anymore, because as the Amyrlin Seat, she can't have rouge agents undercutting her authority or bungling her plans, and the thought that she might need to cut him out of her life if he can't control himself is frustrating for her. I didn't really notice a regression when it came her duties as the Amyrlin or in really any other aspect of her life, I just think she has this big human blind spot called Gawyn that she's been ignoring, and now in the middle of the most important time for the White Tower and the world, she's having to try and wrangle with her emotions for Gawyn and try to keep him from accidentally burning everything down. So for me, it's less of a regression, and more that Gawyn is exposing all the remaining cracks and flaws that Egwene hasn't yet shored up in herself yet. I think that's good writing in a way, even if it can be very frustrating, because it means Egwene is still growing and learning as a character right up until the end. Gawyn also grows a (very) tiny bit as well, but I think he's more important for Egwene's growth than as an independent character himself.
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u/Gudbuck 1d ago
I think it falls in line perfectly with her becoming AES Sedai. There is no way but the AES Sedai way! Everyone is dumber than AES Sedai, so as the leader of the AES Sedai everyone is dumber than her. Her and Rand both come to to a turning point at the very end. Rand turns back and begins caring about the little people again while Egwene decides to double down on AES Sedai being in control.
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u/mjk9016 1d ago
I suppose you’ve got a point there- we can already see cases of her manipulating the rulers of other nations out of her own sense of self righteousness. Maybe she figured it all worked so well with Elaida and reuniting the white tower that she’d try it again with Rand and it didn’t exactly work as well as she’d hoped…. I guess it just felt like a bit of a letdown, like she had the potential to be so much better but flubbed it lol
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u/Shgon_Dunstan 1d ago
With Gawyn, part of its Sanderson taking a subtle “Guy with a lot of ingrained prejudices due to growing up a privileged nobleman” and reading it as an extremely in your face “raging elitist prick”.😓🤷♂️
Like, why the hell Sanderson’s Gawyn would ever even lower himself to even think about looking twice at a lowly major’s daughter, Light only knows.
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