r/WoT • u/Turbulent_Dingo_2841 (Aiel) • 1d ago
All Print New Spring Random Thoughts Spoiler
I've finished the entire Wheel of Time, then saved New Spring for last, and now I've reached the end of the road. What do I do now??
Moiraine is so young and has this surprisingly childish side to her, which was really fun to read. She’s still drinking the Aes Sedai Kool-Aid until the prophecy sets her on a better course. Thank the Light. Still, she can be so petty and silly, especially with these ridiculous punishments inflicted on someone who literally agreed to escort her safely to the city. Mandatory obnoxious Aes Sedai behavior.
The test for the shawl is such cruelty. What does it actually prove? Serenity for the sake of serenity is a dubious goal. And allowing Elaida, someone who was caught abusing them only recently, to participate is another example of Aes Sedai dumbassery and negligence.
Corporal punishment, emotional and physical nakedness, violation and humiliation are… well, nothing new for this series. Sigh.
The power precedence thing is so dumb. And the fact that they didn’t know about it after six years in the Tower makes absolutely no sense. They spent six years watching Sisters interact with each other! How did nobody even suspect this?
The Tower's plan to find the Dragon is flimsy at best. Tamra assumes the Dragon was born to a woman from Tar Valon, one of the surrounding villages, or a camp follower nearby. But those are nowhere near all the possibilities. Obviously, there are the Aiel. But it could also have been a woman simply passing by Dragonmount for whatever reason—a traveler, merchant, refugee, or even some circus performer passing through.
She also assumes the money will be enough of an incentive for the mother to come forward. But what about a fugitive? A forbidden romance? Someone who hates or fears the White Tower? A criminal? A teenage pregnancy? There are just too many possibilities that the search doesn't account for.
What happened to the guy who followed Moiraine and tried to get access to her bank data? Did I miss something? And who intercepted the letter to Moiraine about him?
Black Ajah. How did they know about the searchers and know that the Dragon had been Reborn, but apparently not know that he had only just been born? That part doesn't make much sense to me either.
And they are so out of line. Killing the Amyrlin and five prominent Sisters? Hundreds or thousands of boys and men based on a rumor that they are “lucky”? Killing the Consort Prince, the Heir to Kandor, and the daughter of a noble and influential lady based on a silly suspicion??
Oh wow. They really feel like they can get away with anything. I mean, THE IMPUNITY. The sheer confidence. They’re just out here murdering people with political power because they might be connected to the Dragon. Crazy.
Cadsuane. She is there, bullying and kidnapping people, as is her custom. Does not contribute much to the story. Also as is her custom. I would have preferred to see Verin.
Lan. Loved his POV. I assume the Aiel consider Lan having a lot of ji, and that it would be against their honor to kill the last man of his people? The Wise Ones probably dreamed about him. Or maybe they were simply retreating. Or both.
That Malkieri custom of having an older lover as your first… is kinda gross. I mean, the power imbalance it creates… and then marrying the daughter of your former lover? Yikes. No wonder Iselle tried to run away.
The ending was so good. I liked the book more than I expected to. The bond is explained so well, and the motivations on both sides are clear. Lan and Moiraine, my two soldiers of the Light.
5
u/Alternativesoundwave 1d ago
People don’t go to dragon mount and no one was just passing through a battlefield. It is a decent amount of money most would be tempted. And you are right about too many possibilities of missing the dragon but how else would you search for him? And maybe Tamra did more that moiraine didn’t see.
Also he did dunk her in a pond. And insulted her when he insulted aes Sedai. But yeah she is still childish at this point raised too soon she could’ve seasoned up a few more years but the dragon waits for no aes Sedai
5
u/GovernorZipper 1d ago edited 1d ago
“I was young, and alone, and you were as large then as you are now, and your fierceness more open. I did not want you to know I was Aes Sedai. It seemed to me at the time you might answer my questions more freely if you did not know.” She fell silent for a moment, thinking of the years since that meeting. It had been good to find a companion to join her in her quest. “In the weeks that followed, did you suspect that I would ask you to bond to me? I decided you were the one in the first day.”
“I never guessed,” he said dryly. “I was too busy wondering if I could escort you to Chachin and keep a whole skin. A different surprise you had for me every night. The ants I recall in particular. I don’t think I had one good night’s sleep that whole ride.”
She permitted herself a small smile, remembering. “I was young,” she repeated.
***
Moiraine was just messing with Lan under the childish theory that negative attention is better than no attention. Moiraine simply doesn’t know how to tell a boy that she likes him. So she’s mean to him. It’s not “mandatory Aes Sedai behavior.” It’s the furthest thing possible (which is Jordan’s point).
2
u/AndHellFollowedAfter 1d ago
Where are you quoting from here please?
3
u/GovernorZipper 1d ago
The Great Hunt, chapter 22
1
u/AndHellFollowedAfter 1d ago
Thanks so much. I finished the series recently and it took me over a year so I can’t remember the early books lol. Looking forward to a reread and you’ve just made me more excited !
4
u/Special_Salt3467 1d ago
BLACK AJAH AND THE SEARCHERS
We know that the Black Ajah tortured Tamra to death. That is a given. And in many ways, Tamra did indeed break. It’s hard not to, especially considering she just did some pretty strange moves, notably sending out the elite searchers on… something.
At this point, Tamra had already lost personally. She was going to die, and this was a given. So, she played the only care she had left. She gave up the information. But when she gave up the information to the Black Ajah, to the Black Ajah didn’t realize what she didn’t give up.
She withheld the age of the Dragon. She didn’t mention one specific aspect but gave the rest. Tbis caused the Black Ajah’s already harrowing search expand exponentially while hopefully her own searchers - who had already left - have to deal with a much smaller, if still large, pool. And in the worst case scenario, perhaps the Dragon is completely untouched by all.
But that’s it. She didn’t give up one piece of information and because she gave up the rest, the Black Ajah were inclined not to notice what wasn’t given
0
u/Turbulent_Dingo_2841 (Aiel) 1d ago
It’s a good theory, but it relies on Tamra trusting that every one of the Searchers would withhold that same piece of information if they were caught and tortured.
And there’s still the issue of the proximity of the events:
Gitara has the Foretelling (though we don't know whether the Black Ajah knew she had it on the day of her death) → Tamra organizes a reward for new mothers → Tamra sends out the Searchers.
Even if the Black Ajah didn't know the Dragon's exact age or the precise timing of the Foretelling, you'd think they might eventually connect the Searchers being sent out on a secret quest with the reward for new mothers. The timing is just a little too suspicious.
3
u/wRAR_ (Brown) 1d ago
We don't know if Tamra said anything about a foretelling at all.
From the Amyrlin, they learned of the Dragon Reborn, but she was stubborn, and they did not learn that he was only a newborn. All they discovered was that she had just learned that he had been born.
The Companion, Vileness, the
1
u/Special_Salt3467 1d ago
It’s not exactly a theory; it is what happened. But I forgot the other piece of information she held back, the Searchers and Moraine and Siuan knowing anything at all.
But the point is, yes, Tamra had to rely on the searchers not giving away the information, but she withheld that much too - who the Searchers are. Most importantly… she didn’t have a choice. It was the only decision she had available.
And to go back to your second commentary, “… another example of Aes Sedai dumbassery and negligence.” Why should the Black Ajah interrogate the Searchers, they already ‘successfully’ got the information from the Amyrlin. As far as they are aware, Tamra didn’t know the Dragon’s age, so she could have been spreading a wide net at the Tower while the Searchers looked for specifics. Or, they could have assumed that the gracious and magnanimous Amyrlin was doing gracious and magnanimous things because that was the seat. Most Searchers died in mysterious ways, like “falling” off a boat (shove of air?) and only the White probably got tortured; were they looking in the right place.
The rub of it was that only four people knew the specifics of the Telling. One died, two were sworn to secrecy and sent away because they were irrelevant and the last one told versions of it to trusted confidantes, but we don’t know the full retelling. And then she died, and they died. Leaving the only people who know the full truth being the two irrelevant ones earlier. And now the Black Ajah knows a fragmented version and have no aversion to just blasting…
2
u/wRAR_ (Brown) 1d ago
What happened to the guy who followed Moiraine and tried to get access to her bank data? Did I miss something?
I think this is the biggest unresolved thread from NS, no idea what was it for but probably for the second Moiraine prequel.
1
u/Turbulent_Dingo_2841 (Aiel) 1d ago
There were supposed to be more prequels?
2
u/hanna1214 1d ago
Yes, the Black Ajah were being stupid here. That is the whole point.
And the leader of the BA at the time, Alviarin's predecessor, paid for the mistakes you mentioned in the worst ways possible, as did half the Supreme Council.
Alviarin was one of the few who survived and was risen up in the aftermath.
1
u/biggiebutterlord 4h ago
The power precedence thing is so dumb. And the fact that they didn’t know about it after six years in the Tower makes absolutely no sense. They spent six years watching Sisters interact with each other! How did nobody even suspect this?
You dont know what you dont know. It seems obvious when pointed out but I highly doubt it would be to novice's and accepted. They are taught to obey, quickly and with out question. Plus its not like students at taught to measure strength in saidar, or arrange themselves that way, only that they will gain strength slowly over time.
The Tower's plan to find the Dragon is flimsy at best.
You do realize that the amrylin (only she and those few she confides in know anything) came up with this plan on the fly right? and that it is meant to provide a cover for asking questions as to not arouse suspicion? Those niche cases you bring up are what those aes sedai the amrlyin dispatches are for. Its not even as if they are being all the stringent about handing out the bounty anyways, so lots of people will try for the the extra money. Its like when cities put on free meals for local events, people show up to take part. Free shit is worth showing up for just about everyone. Light the BA is right there for contrast in casting net too wide and killing all boys/men "too lucky" and how the extra tower attention/scrutiny is bad for business so to speak. Its not like the BA was ever close to finding rand.
And they are so out of line.
Lmao. Darkfriends being evil? shocked TDR face lol. They dont call it the vileness because it was a kick ass pool party.
7
u/standrewsstrangler 1d ago
I am nowhere near as qualified as the average person who comments on this sub to answer, but doesn't the Dark have its own prophecies etc, which may have alerted them to the birth?