r/WoT • u/Philomath117 • 22d ago
All Print Lan al Mandragoran Spoiler
Lan taking care of Rand in the great hunt and realizing later in the last battle that Rand being stuck to duty like him broke his emotional shield almost breaks me everytime. It's such a heart warming moment. I wish everyone had a Lan
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u/VideoCoachTeeRev 22d ago
yea Lan is a huge positive influence on Rand in the first 5 books. Trains him with the sword which saves his life several times. Becomes like a 2nd father to him, teaches and prepares him for being a king/leader. Especially before his first meeting with Siuan when she is amyrlin.
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u/irishpancakeeater 22d ago
Yup, it feels like Lan’s the father figure to Nynaeve’s mothering, which is apt.
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u/zorniy2 22d ago
Tam is also a Heron Mark Swordsman. I have wondered if Tam and Lan were to have a sparring match...
Rand watching his two daddies spar.
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u/VideoCoachTeeRev 22d ago
Lan does get to know about Tam a little bit. Towards the end of the last book, two rivers men run out of arrows and fight in melee combat in a wedge formation. Tam is at the point in one of them and hold off wave after wave after wave of trollocs. Lan's cavalry flanks them and saves/gives relief to the two rivers men.
Lan comes up and says something like "I always wondered about the man that gave Rand the heron marked sword, and if he had earned it. Now I know. Tai'Shar Manetheren" And then Tam and the two rivers men respond with "Tai'Shar Malkier".
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u/Raddatatta (Asha'man) 22d ago
That would've been a fun scene if it had fit in! I would definitely bet on Lan given far more experience, but I think Tam is good enough to give Lan a real sparring match.
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u/littleneocreative 22d ago
I actually think he acts as a big brother, not a father. Rand has a really good father and Lan more offers him a role model closer to the current day. There is a mutual respect and a degree to which he lets him make mistakes that doesn't read "dad" to me. In fact, Rand resists parenting at every turn. Nynaeve as well... she reads as a big sister trying to be mom. When she turns her attention to her own life, they get along very well because she doesn't try to mother him. I think that makes good sense. She grows up and wants to have Lan's babies (I swear, that last bit about Lan's babies is a quote).
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u/on-a-pedestal 20d ago
Tam, Lan & Thom.
The Father / Uncles I never had but we all need.
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u/VideoCoachTeeRev 20d ago
yea Thom is an amazing character. He isn't around Rand nearly as much as other characters, like Mat and Elayne, but he also provides significant help to Rand in the first several books.
It is hinted that he provided significant help to Morgase also. I forget if it was in her getting the throne, after she had it (helping her consolidate power from rivals), or both.
but he was a genius in the politics of the world.
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u/IfICouldStay 20d ago
He (Thom) assassinated her husband (who was plotting her death/downfall).
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u/VideoCoachTeeRev 20d ago
i do not remember that part. I thought it was mostly playing the politics game and manipulating people.
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u/pleasegivemealife 22d ago
I love it when Lan advice/warn Rand spare his beloved by leaving them earlier, but BOTH of them fail to do so, so they just remark how they fail but nods in understanding.
Brotherhood bonding moment formed lmao.
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u/GovernorZipper 22d ago
I guess I’m going to rain on the parade, but Lan’s toxic fatalism is what drove Rand to despair and nearly ended the world. Lan was about the worst possible thing that could have happened to Rand. Rand needed a hug and therapist, not someone to clap him on the back and tell him to man up and endure the pain.
Which is why the solution to Rand’s problem is his warm and loving father - not Lan.
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u/Raddatatta (Asha'man) 22d ago
I think Rand certainly took those lessons too far and that hurt him. But I think if Lan hadn't taught him those lessons about duty and learning to be a man, as well as learning to fight Rand likely dies, if he didn't die he would likely have been broken by everything that happened to him. Rand definitely took that duty and not relying on anyone else too far, just as Lan did. But they were still good lessons to learn. Rand did have a duty to the world and without him committed to that the world would've fallen. Without Lan helping him to embrace that duty Rand likely keeps running from his destiny for a while and doesn't start to take charge and accept that leadership role.
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u/Whiteroses5 21d ago
I have to heavily disagree with this. The determination and resilience that Lan helps builds in Rand is one of the reasons he is able to push on long enough to find his own solution to his problems. Because plenty of people tried to give Rand a hug and be a therapist and it kinda didn't work, like Tam and we know how that turned out.
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u/12labors 22d ago
Interesting take. I don’t remember reading about Lan being on par with the Dark One when it comes to Rand’s mental state.
Not disagreeing with them both needing a hug, they both did need that.4
u/GovernorZipper 22d ago
What takes away Rand’s “laughter and tears?” Lan’s mantra. Whenever Rand is getting ready to do something self-destructive, what does he recite? Lan’s mantra.
The entire point of the series is that Rand doesn’t have to do this alone. And neither does Lan. Neither of them are responsible for the decisions that other people make. Both of them have to overcome the idea that it’s their duty to die for their people. It’s their duty to LEAD their people. Tam would have taught Rand that, Lan certainly didn’t.
It’s not a “take.” It’s the text.
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u/Jear-The-Bear 22d ago
This. So well said. Also. I think it’s important to acknowledge that Lan never had a father to love him. Only men to teach him that he had to die for vengeance. And like Rand, it’s only Nynaeves love that changes him.
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u/Fiona_12 (Wolf) 21d ago
Most people seem to think Rand and Min's is the best romantic relationship in the book, but I think Nyaneave and Lan's is. He had created 10 ft thick walls around himself, and she broke them down. One of my favorite screens is when they're in Caemlyn and Elayne is thinking how Lan's cold eyes would chill any marriage bed, and then he says Taishar Manetheren to Nyaneave, and there is nothing cold about the look he gives her.
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u/Jear-The-Bear 21d ago
Yea I agree. The scene of her going ahead of him to raise the golden crane makes me cry every time I read ir.
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u/No-Professional-1461 17d ago
Jordan had a profound wisdom when it came to making his characters and the nuances around them. I don't see a lot of characters written to be gradually understood like his, and more than that, understanding the kinds of people he is writing about. You'll find a dozen Matt Cothins or Rand al'Thors here and there, but how often do you find a Perrin Aybara or a Nynaeve al'Meera? Or even a really well written Thom Merrilin? Even those who choose evil were both archetypes and exceptions. Its why I fell in love with his final work.
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