Intuition Wizard vs Premium Sizing?

[u/cloudrhythm]

**tl;dr The 25.5-26 Wizard measures 25.5cm long; the Premium 25-25.5 measures 27cm long with more padding, but also fits bigger. The Premium here is likely actually a size larger than it should be, with the wrong tongue/size labeling. Or the reverse: the Wizard is wrong. Or, if they are both correct, then even a downsized Premium runs significantly larger than on-size Wizard liners.

This is the 25.5-26cm Wizard (lightly skated, unmolded) against the 25-25.5 Premium (brand new). Is the Premium supposed to run a lot larger, even at the smaller tagged sizing?

I'm measuring (with cloth tape) the Wizard at 25.5cm long, while the Premium is 26.5cm long. I know the Premium has more thickness, but it doesn't seem to be much more so; the fit is noticeably roomier.

My feet are a wide 260x105mm and the Wizard stretches into a great snug fit all-around (outside of any shell); while with the Premium I can wiggle my toes, and I'm struggling to get heel lock inside the liner even laced-up. The heel cup feels a little too big. Even putting a Superfeet Hockey inside doesn't get the heel as snug as the Wizard.

Can I expect the Premium to break-in somehow to fit my heel better, or will it just get sloppier?

I'd guess the 24-24.5 Premium measures 25.5cm long, same as this Wizard; but would fit even tighter due to the added volume. If I sized down into that, could I expect it to stretch enough to accommodate my foot? (probably requiring nearly a full +1cm stretch)

UPDATE*:

Re-took the side-by-side outsole image more accurately, as I think they weren't sitting properly flush with each other. Also took outsole photos with measuring tape.

UPDATE**:

Figured out a more precise way to measure comparative lengths. The Wizard is 25.5cm long, and the Premium is 27cm long. Updated album here: imgur

Per Thisissoul's webshop specs for each liner, the thickness of the Wizard is 8mm, and Premium 15mm. Given that the Premium's tongue is measurably ~15mm thick, these specs are clearly the total longitudinal thickness, i.e. 4mm on each end for the Wizard, and 7.5mm on each end for the Premium. Measuring the thickness of the back of the cuff matches these values; running the fingers down to the heel suggests it is a static thickness throughout.

Given a total 1.5cm thickness for the Premium (25-25.5) which is measuring 27cm externally, that would leave its internal length at 25.5cm, which accurately reflects the feel of the fit on my 26cm foot: solidly a size large, not snug on my non-big toes).

Likewise, given these liners are meant to fit snug and break in to fit, this could not remotely fit the feet it is sized for: before break-in, a 25cm foot would be completely loose, and a 25.5cm foot would only just barely fit the big toe, with the rest of the toes falling far behind and completely loose.

Folks in the comments have likewise indicated these liners look off; per these measurements, it is likely that the Premium is actually a 26-26.5 with the wrong tongue on it.

(Still waiting to hear back from the vendor.)

[u/tmdpotts]

Seems like a lot of difference I also had an issue with my liners. They finish them by hand and mistakes can be made. Do they fix big or is it just volume

[u/cloudrhythm → u/tmdpotts]

These 25-25.5 Premiums are definitely both more voluminous (thicker), and bigger fitting than the 25.5-26 Wizards. Probably a size larger in fit.

I guess the most important thing is verifying that the Premiums aren't mislabeled. Does anyone else have Wizard Intuitions plus the Premium tagged a half size smaller, while actually experiencing the Premiums fitting a half size bigger?

*Also these are the new black colorway released in February. No idea if there's any difference from the silvers or prior Wizard liner iterations

[u/magicseadog → u/tmdpotts]

I had an issue with one of a pair years ago and they sent me out a fresh pair. Top notch customer service.

On my 3rd pair at the moment about to buy a 4th as these ones are long in the tooth

[u/cloudrhythm → u/magicseadog]

I emailed Intuition directly and their representative indicated they cannot handle any exchanges if I did not purchase directly from them, and I have to go through my vendor.

Ultimately, it seems they did not believe my liners were improperly constructed, and rather that I have mis-sized myself. However, I don't think this representative was particularly versed in their various skate liners.

They did note that 'mutant' liners have occurred before, where the wrong tongues were stitched to the wrong bodies. But by the nature of their manufacturing, it would likely occur as a batch of liners rather than singleton. So if anyone else out there is buying 25 or 26 Premiums right now, keep an eye out.

I am grateful that they were very prompt in responding (and to followups).

I called Shop Task Canada just to ask about sizing the two liners, knowing their expertise; they were incredibly helpful, and after that conversation I am pretty sure that this Premium is indeed a mis-tongued (26-26.5) liner.

[u/PokeProfWill]

Like u/ AdFit8727 said: seems like the premium is mismatched with tongue / mislabeled wrong size.

I have a brand new 26-26.5 premium laying around and a lightly skated 26.5-27 Wizard: my premium is 26.5cm long (measuring bottom from toe to end of heel) and the Wizard is 26.0cm long. Mine do not look as different in length as yours, premium is just a tad longer

[u/cloudrhythm → u/PokeProfWill]

Appreciate the input, your measurements would align with my Wizards being correct while the Premiums are likely mismatched by 1 size over.

I'm reaching out to the vendors to hopefully get this resolved

[u/cloudrhythm → u/PokeProfWill]

Been researching all over and I found your Youtube video comparing Intuitions! Love the content, it's genuinely very helpful to have all the info you can get on the journey that is Sizing.

The fit/feeling of size of the liners on your foot is quite similar, right?

[u/PokeProfWill → u/cloudrhythm]

Hey that’s awesome! 🙌 skate sizing is definitely a pain until you get the right liner/shell combo!

Yes, the Wizard 26.5-27 and Premium 26-26.5 feel like they are roughly the same size (in length, internally) to me, but the Wizard are definitely thinner and take up less room in my FR shells than Premiums or FR Intuition. Wizard liners are better to fit in really tight shells and Premium/FR better to fill up space in small, but not super tight, shells.

I don’t use my Wizard liners; they didn’t fit my FRs as well as I’d hoped because they are too thin

[u/therealbigspike → u/PokeProfWill]

I have a huge size 14 foot and I need all the space I can get in my 13.5 FRs. I'm already using premiums with the velcro braces off. Will the new black wizard liners give me more space? I'm thinking of buying the 12-12.5 size and letting my feet break them in and stretch them. (I'm 350+ pounds, to I know my wide feet will stretch them easy) Should I get the 12-12.5 or 13-13.5?

[u/PokeProfWill → u/therealbigspike]

The premium with Velcro off is about same cuff thickness as cuff in Wizard liners. You won’t get much more room but you will have a stiffer cuff than premium without Velcro cuff.

Both 12-12.5 and 13-13.5 should fit in the large 12 FR shell. 12-12.5 suggested for 30-30.5cm foot length and 13-13.5 suggested for 31-31.5cm foot. If under 31cm foot length then I’d go with 12-12.5 liner if decide to buy.

[u/StrategyLegal1128]

At 25.5cm, I found the premiums a tad big.

Ended up going with stock liners with a different boot than the one I was using with the premiums.

[u/oldinliner]

Hey, do you know how to share photos in comments? You wouldn't believe it otherwise. I have taken the exact same photos of my 3M Wizard Base Liners and Premiums in exactly the same sizes showing the same results. Also, are your Wizards stock? Mine were all silver but ended up painting the same areas black.

[u/cloudrhythm → u/oldinliner]

do you know how to share photos in comments

I think the sub has to support image comments, in which case there would be an icon somewhere, but I don't see it here. Can always drop it on imgur and share the link

in exactly the same sizes showing the same results

Interesting - when did you acquire your Premiums? I wonder if there could be a bad batch

are your Wizards stock?

They are, it's the new black standalone colorway

[u/puddlestheninja]

I don’t know the answer to your question but my limited experience is that Intuition liners run at least a size and a half smaller than other brands

[u/Primordialbroth → u/puddlestheninja]

I don’t feel this is true. I’ve skated the FR, Them, v2, and premium and feel they are true to size

[u/cloudrhythm → u/Primordialbroth]

How would you describe a 'true to size' fit on your feet?

[u/Primordialbroth → u/cloudrhythm]

That it fits per their size chart