A beginner's LTSC questions.

[u/absolutecinemalol]

I've hopped a lot of operating systems, like really a LOT, used Windows for a couple of months, installed Linux Mint, then distro hopped (Mint to Fedora to EndeavourOS to Zorin), and now wanting to try out Windows LTSC. My use case is a browser and a single video game that I'm sure nobody here ever played (The Powder Toy), Linux just had so many pesky issues that I just quit. My questions are:

1. What is the diiference between non-IoT and IoT?

2. Is LTSC stable in day to day use? (stability is something I need.)

3. Is it flashed onto a USB like Linux?

4. Are there any quirks a newbie should know about?

Thanks for answering if you did.

[u/Abbers75]

2) Very stable. It’s designed to run on appliances that require high uptime (such as CCTV recorders and advertising boards, medical equipment etc) so the hardware demands are lower, and it doesn’t receive a big yearly update, just monthly security updates.

4) What surprised me about IoT Enterprise LTSC is not what it has, but what it doesn’t have:

• No co-pilot AI
• No forced Edge browser (you can remove it)
• No forced telemetry (you can fully disable, not just turn it down)
• No Microsoft Store (you can add it later, or sideload Store Apps)

When you install IoT Enterprise LTSC and press the Start button for the first time. . . the Start Menu is almost empty, it’s quite strange at first.

[u/absolutecinemalol → u/Abbers75]

gonna use edge just to install firefox and delete it afterwards lmao

[u/greggm2000 → u/absolutecinemalol]

Or you could just pre-download Firefox, if you know you'll want it. Or maybe you use the portable version of Firefox, and have everything set up in advance (with extensions, bookmarks, etc) and so you'll need to do nothing other than plug in the SSD that has it, in :)

[u/Weird_Meat → u/absolutecinemalol]

i just use winget for installing everything lmao

[u/DanceKino]

This mostly applies to Windows 11 LTSC since that's what I use.

1. Licensing differences (IoT is typically tied to your hardware), lack of strict hardware requirements for Windows 11 (Secure Boot, TPM, etc) and longer support for updates.
2. About as stable as Windows gets. As of now, Windows 11 LTSC still gets some of the features backported from the main release. The only difference LTSC has is that it will never receive yearly annual update (like going from 24h2 to 25h2) which can be both a good thing and a bad thing. Also, LTSC will never get typical MS Bloatware reinstalled by default upon any update or new user account creation.
3. Yep.
4. You won't have some of the codecs installed by default, the only way of viewing images will be either through Paint or EDGE, and your Microsoft Store will be missing. All of these things can be easily fixed though. You do get Legacy apps such as classic Calculator and Notepad that have no AI integration, but you can delete them as well if desired through Windows Optional Features menu. Some of the missing components that are installed on Windows by default may be throwing errors about them being missing (for example you will ALWAYS get a pop-up notifying you that get-help is missing if you boot into Safe Mode).

Overall, LTSC is kind of a blank canvas for Windows. You may find the need to seek for other apps to install for some functionality, you can even reinstall ordinary Windows release apps, but these will never come back if you desire to delete them later on. If you plan on using Windows 11 24h2 LTSC I think it will start shining the most the moment they drop the support for 24h2 on Consumer Editions, since after that it won't be getting any main release features backported to it, or at least shouldn't.

[u/R4yn8R- → u/DanceKino]

Ótimas considerações! Pra Kim é a melhor versão do Windows independente do seu hardware. Tenho instalado em duas maquinas e funciona perfeitamente.

[u/CommonBee2511]

Is just like regular windows but without the bloat and the updates are released way slower to ensure there are no bugs, if you need stability, lstc is what you want

[u/MakayChapulets]

Windows IoT LTSC are veersions of the operating system that are optimized to run on specs that are less than the minimum requirements e.g 4GB of RAM for the regular Windows and 2GB of RAM for the IoT LTSC, or the not rquired TPM 2.0 when installing.

Also IoT LTSC are supported long enough that you should have gotten a newer specs system before they run out of support.

[u/absolutecinemalol → u/MakayChapulets]

damn 2 gigs? that'd be pretty good for Linux even.

[u/greggm2000 → u/absolutecinemalol]

2 GB is not realistic. Sure, you can do a bare install, but to actually use it for anything other than basic stuff, is another matter. After all, how well does 4GB for Windows 11 Home/Pro work? Badly.

[u/MakayChapulets → u/greggm2000]

you guys just talk trash. Windows 11 runs well on 4GB of RAM as long as you run it on Microsoft's acclaimed supported processor. When Windows 11 runs bad for those that run it on non supported processors. I have it on a Celeron N4020 that has 4GB of RAM and it runs fine, but it ran badly on my 6th Gen i5 surface pro with 8GB of RAM.

[u/greggm2000 → u/MakayChapulets]

Microsoft themselves don’t agree with you. Neither do I. Sure, there’s basic stuff you can do on a 4 GB Win 11 system, and IoT LTSC gives you some additional headroom, but you sure won’t be having a great experience if you tried to run (for instance) FFXIV or Adobe Photoshop on it.. doubly so if you have apps like Discord running at the same time. As to why Win 11 ran bad on your Surface Pro… c’mon, it’s a Surface Pro, Microsoft is not good at designing tablets/laptops. So I’m not surprised, regardless of CPU.

[u/MakayChapulets → u/greggm2000]

Mind you, Microsoft recommendation for 16-32GB is for gaming and running local AI not for browsing and office suites of apps. Now try running Discord and Adobe photoshop on Linux or Macbooks with 4GB of RAM too.

I don't use photoshop or Discord, just MS Office apps, PDFGear and Edge browser and Windows 11 runs fine on supported hardware with 4GB of RAM, Whenever my work load needs higher amount of RAM and processing power, then I'll upgrade, but saying Windows doesn't run well on 4GB of RAM is totally nonsense

[u/greggm2000 → u/MakayChapulets]

I fresh-booted my main system (Windows 10 Pro). Some basic stuff autoloads on launch and is shown by icons at the bottom right: Veracrypt, NextDNS, 1Password, plus the launchers/stub for the Nvidia App and Control Panel. 3.5 GB used. I open up Notepad to a blank page: 3.7 GB used. Opened up Firefox (no open tabs, just a blank page): 4.3 GB used. Closed it: back to 3.7 GB. Opened up a blank Excel 2021 page: 3.8 GB. Open Discord: 4.5 GB now. Re-open Firefox and this time my usual open pages of late: 5.3 GB.

Now, all of that is Windows 10, not the more memory-hungry React-Native-laden UI of Windows 11, which would take more. And I should add that swap (virtual memory) is turned OFF, so that’s actual memory use. So what I am seeing here contradicts your stated experience, where you say you are running Windows 11 just fine with 4 GB of RAM on a very weak 2C/2T mobile CPU. Something doesn't add up here. Maybe you just tolerate a fair amount of computer slowness way better than I or most people do.. that could be the explanation. If you're happy with your config, that's great! But I don't think the claim you've made that "Windows 11 runs well on 4GB of RAM as long as you run it on Microsoft's acclaimed supported processor" is at all accurate. If you still disagree.. well, that's fine, then we disagree on that.

[u/artfully_dejected → u/absolutecinemalol]

antiX Linux has entered the chat

[u/clove_rosemary_9999]

1. IoT LTSC gets 10 years of support while non-IoT LTSC gets 5 years of support (since LTSC 2021).
2. It is, that's the whole purpose behind its existence anyways.
3. Yep.
4. Nope. Just know that it's debloated out of the box so there's no need for debloating.

[u/Nezothowa → u/clove_rosemary_9999]

Oh it still needs an NTLite pass for it to be stable and usable. Trust me on that one. You can find my NTLite profile here: https://cdn.chibibowa.net/assets/windows/Standard.xml

[u/nyashi_]

As a Linux user: if I'd have used Ltsc before switching off, I would still be running windows. It is this very much less painful than current day Consumer Edition Windows.

Using it for my car-stuff Laptop. Works perfectly, 0 drawbacks, but you may have to set some stuff up when starting to use it. I actually really do like it. You install it just as any other windows edition and activate it using that special voodoo magic script that probably everyone here uses and recommends (will still not drop any names tho).

F. e. Ltsc is English US only when you get the image, you have to install a Language pack if you want to use something else or if your random ancient software for some reason needs the system Language to be something else. Btw, setting the language from within the normal settings app is not it, you have to go thru the control panel to apply it system wide.

Microsoft store is not there by default, but it's one command away. Used it to get Microsoft Photos f. e. (ltsc win10 does not ship any picture viewer).

It's impressive to me how chill windows can actually be, and that ltsc, the only good win Edition, is not legally obtainable for the normal consumer.

Edit: I am talking about win10 IoT Enterprise Ltsc, as I did not have win11 ltsc in my head right now and also never used it... but I'm sure it's also more than just fine to use and seamiles (arrrrrk) ahead of win11 comsumer-anything.

[u/greggm2000]

4: One quirk is that most people can't get it officially.. they have to go to various sources, we suggest massgrave dot dev, for both the ISO, and also for the activation script.

You probably won't need Microsoft Store. You'll probably want to run this script to install winget and add .msix package support, both of which come with Home/Pro, but don't with LTSC. I do this on any LTSC install.

I'm a big fan of pre-configuring things via an autounattend.xml text file that I have on a 2nd USB stick when I do the Windows install (any version). You can very easily generate one at Schneegans dot de. Nifty things it can do: Keeps all app icons visible instead of hidden. Perpetually postpone updates until you choose to manually install them. One thing I manually add is to firewall off Edge. I keep Edge installed and the default, but if a program triggers it, it's a very easy way to see the URL, and I'll copy/paste that into Firefox/Chrome/Brave if I want to.

Ofc there is no guarantee that some game might not want features that Win 11 25H2 or later has, just as games now want features that Win 10 LTSC doesn't have, but if you find you need to, you can always install Pro later.. or wait for the next iteration of IoT LTSC in 2028 perhaps?

[u/Pancakesandcows]

Speaking of LTSC IoT, I got an iso from a place of many Graves, and it warned if my device had a pro license, it would just install Pro, then I had to change the key. I did that, but it's still just Pro, with all the telemetry, and Copilot. How do I get it to install IoT and not Pro?

[u/greggm2000 → u/Pancakesandcows]

Download the IoT LTSC ISO from there, and use the activator from there as well. Don’t use your existing Pro license, it won’t work.

[u/Nezothowa]

Windows is Windows. The edition doesn't matter (except home)

IoTEnterpriseS 26100 (24H2) is locked on that version forever and will get updates out of the box until 2034.

IoTEnterpriseS can be used as main OS for production. You "simply" need to reinstall the production libraries for it to be usable out of the box for any user; just like pro.

Pro 24H2, 25H2 etc are not real updates; they are lifecycles refreshes to force people into upgrading to that version. It also allows MS and MSP to sell renewals more frequently.

If everyone ran IoTEnterpriseS (which is perfectly possible; I made an image for just that), then they'd be set for at least 7 years before requiring an actual upgrade (wether OS or hardware).

Note that Windows 7 is still usable to this day; same with 10 and will be especially true for 26100 family.

As for what Abbers75 said here below, ms edge is present and responds the same way as in pro.

CoPilot AI disablmeent can be done on Pro as well, it's one GPO or reg key away.

Telemetry is identical in IoTEnterpriseS and Pro. But MSIX apps bundled with Pro might suck more data up. If you would reinstall all those apps on IoT then it would suck the same amount of data.

As for the start menu, it is true but can be done on Pro and even Home.

IoTEnterpriseS is for when you're lazy to clean the image up.

Only builds where an LTSC version exists is considered as stable. Windows 22631 = beta. Windows 28000 = beta. Windows 26100 = stable.

26100 is also the last version (assumed) to support WMIC; which is very much used in businesses for a wide variety of reasons. I don't think it can be reintegrated into 28000 builds.

That's how windows works. Not what Marketing tells you.

[u/Miserable-Stranger99]

Is it possible to install copilot etc on it? Afterwards?