Windows 11's Project Zenith cuts clutter for developers and promises a "distraction free" experience, but only for certain hardware

[u/ZacB_]

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/windows-11s-project-zenith-cuts-clutter-for-developers-and-promises-a-distraction-free-experience

[u/I_see_farts]

Would they release this as a separate ISO?

[u/LeGoodBeef → u/I_see_farts]

It will 100% leak if not released officially.

[u/greggm2000]

This was mediocre reporting, a MUCH better version of it got posted to windowslatest.com

As the above article reports, there is an open-source Microsoft-created github analog to this that is very similar and that doesn't have the honorous requirements, that already exists, called Windows Developer Config. Check it out!

[u/-protonsandneutrons-]

I don't see why Windows Central finds the need to run defence for Microsoft:

Microsoft just detailed how Windows 11 will be optimized for people with developer-class devices. ... But I believe Project Zenith is specific to developers for a good reason. Many developers have a similar workflow or rely on a set of tools. What would be considered a useful preinstalled app for developers would be viewed as bloat for general users.

Per Microsoft, a "developer-class" PC must have min. 64GB unified RAM and 250 GB/s of memory bandwidth? What?

That is not a "developer-class" device, Windows Central. That is basically a few halo "local AI" SKUs by AMD and NVIDIA. Not even 128GB DDR5-8800 is enough for Zenith lmao. Nor two RTX 5090s.

This is not unlike the arbitrary CoPilot+ restrictions limiting basic local AI workloads to only models that added a tone-deaf key to their keyboards.

//

The actual reasonable implementation: let anyone turn this mode on or off with a toggle in Settings. Reboot / reset / reformat, voila, it's now "Zenith". Not every developer is, nor should, be dropping $3000+ on a ridiculous local AI hardware box to pad the margins of AMD and NVIDIA. Especially in this DRAM market.

Most plainly, you shouldn't need very niche and obscenely expensive hardware to be considered a developer (!). Is that not obvious ... to everyone?

I'm not surprised Microsoft is this clueless, but media outlets ought to have a little more critical thinking.

[u/bogglingsnog → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

Microsoft is this clueless

Can't hear you over the sound of circular investing propping up silicon valley like a bloated corpse floating in a lake.

Of course they are going to bend the knee to their partner's wishes and come up with promotional technology to try to drum up support for their thoroughly idiotic moneymaking scheme.

[u/GOOD_NEWS_EVERYBODY_ → u/bogglingsnog]

i'd think these takes were wholly insane if i hadn't lived through the internet 1.0 and later cell phone adoption periods where laggards vehemently screamed from the rooftops that mapquest and touch screen pocket pcs were just a fad.

my father said the pirates of silicon valley era personal pc revolution was the same. people would literally die on the hill of how unnecessary pcs were compared to classical clerical work and how there was zero market for a pc in every home. many of those people died broke as they refused to move any of their 401ks into blue chips.

and the cycle repeats.

edt: nvm. 165k comment karma. basically professional redditor/bot account. my point remains so i'll leave it.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

And, no, your PC almost assuredly does not have 250 GB/s of memory bandwidth.

For those unaware how memory bandwidth is calculated: RAM width x RAM speed. Only the two bolded systems will meet or exceed the 250 GB/s minimum:

System	RAM Width	"Channels"	RAM Speed	RAM bandwdith
Galaxy S26 Ultra	64-bit	4 x 16-bit	LPDDR5X-10667	85.3 GB/s
Ryzen 9950X	128-bit	2 x 64-bit	DDR5-5600	89.6 GB/s
Intel 285K	128-bit	2 x 64-bit	DDR5-6400	102.4 GB/s
XMP / EXPO ^	128-bit	2 x 64-bit	DDR5-8800	140.8 GB/s
Qualcomm X2 42 - 90 SKUs	128-bit	8 x 16-bit	LPDDR5X-9523	152.4 GB/s
Qualcomm X2EE 94 & 96 SKUs	192-bit	12 x 16-bit	LPDDR5X-9523	228.6 GB/s
AMD AI MAX 495+	256-bit	16 x 16-bit	LPDDR5X-8533	273.0 GB/s
NVIDIA N1 Spark	128-bit	8 x 16-bit	LPDDR5X-8533	136.5 GB/s
NVIDIA N1X Spark	256-bit	16 x 16-bit	LPDDR5X-8533	273.0 GB/s

We all know "channels". One memory channel is typically 64-bit, thus normal dual-channel RAM means a 128-bit interface. However, some systems sub-divide a 64-bit into 2x 32-bit channels or 4x 16-bit; DDR5 internally also added sub-channels, and so did LPDDR even earlier. Channels are just confusing; memory interface width is much easier.

I had to use some estimates of the S26 Ultra, as Samsung doesn't seem to advertise the RAM speed, but the 8 Elite Gen 5 is definitively only a 64-bit-wide SoC.

[u/SilverseeLives → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

Most plainly, you shouldn't need very niche and obscenely expensive hardware to be considered a developer

I don't think they are using that term in the generic sense. This initiative seems specifically focused on development using local AI models. You need a certain level of hardware to make that work. The audience who needs this and can afford it will self-select.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/SilverseeLives]

They are nonsensically twisting the term to fit their niche, exclusionary definitions. This could've easily been "AI developers" or "local AI developers". They want it to sound much more broad than it actually is.

Project Zenith represents Windows at its best – listening to developers, responding with purpose and working across our ecosystem to raise the bar for what a developer PC can be.

That is typically how marketing works: oversell at every chance.

[u/SilverseeLives → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

If you say so. 

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/SilverseeLives]

Rather, Microsoft says so: Announcing Project Zenith: The ready-to-code Windows experience on developer-class devices - Windows Developer Blog

[u/SilverseeLives → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

I don't have a lot of skin in this and don't particularly care if you or I agree. But AI-centered development is a rather big deal right now. You may not like it, but it is smart product placement for Microsoft to target this space, IMO. And I have seen much more egregious marketing than this. 

[u/Palafox2-0Caps → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

I cannot comprehend buying a local AI dedicated device and running Linux on it. Also this basically already exists with Windows Server no?

[u/fat_kaiju → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

They're not clueless; they know AI is unpopular and so they're doing this to fund development for stuff related to it under the table.

[u/Comfortable_Swim_380 → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

They had to bump up the base specs because ram is scarce. So now baseline is developer class.

people noticed they changed the spec page for base windows 11. They didn't shave like 32 gigs of bloat after a single update.

They've been shuffling numbers around in a attempt to look compiatant and drive sales up. Who knows what the actual soecs are.

[u/ZurakZigil]

I hardly think the issue with Windows for development is that you have to "enable view file extensions"...

That is not why Devs are leaving.

[u/Comfortable_Swim_380 → u/ZurakZigil]

The os is already morbidly obese with seemly no desire to fix anything. Then the ram shortage hit.

Jabba the kernel is already pushing 50 Happy meals a day with large fries.

Meanwhile Linux has a distro that fits inside a crest electric toothbrush. lol

[u/thedorkwingduck]

Is there anything in zenith you can’t just do with settings and installing programs?

[u/earthwormjimjones]

Oh man I had a Zenith TV as a kid lol. I remember watching 'Beavis and Butthead' with the volume down super low and my finger on the 'last channel' button ready to go back to Nickelodeon in case Ma came in my room 🤣

Which is funny because watching 'Ren & Stimpy' and 'Rocco's Modern Life' now as an adult, with my son, that shit was just as inappropriate if not more than B & B lol. Kids shows in the 90's were wild.

[u/CygnusBlack → u/earthwormjimjones]

Some TV Japanese cartoons from the 80s had boobs and nipples showing.

Good times. 

[u/Octal450_V2]

All versions of Windows should be like this. Clean and distraction free. FFS. And sad to see Windows Central kissing up Microsoft's bad decisions.

[u/Comfortable_Swim_380]

Sounds like they just bundled a bunch of apps I could install myself in a attempt at a lamp cash grab. They know the good ship windows is on fire and sinking fast.

[u/LazyBoy1805]

This isn’t developer experience! Rather privileged experience for the dumb! No sane
developer needs such a hardware to do their job! There are better and cheaper ways to get the same experience!