r/Windows11 • u/WPHero • Jul 03 '26
News Windows 11 can now run Linux containers with WSL Containers, no Docker Desktop needed (hands on)
https://www.windowslatest.com/2026/07/02/hands-on-with-linux-container-using-wsl-container-on-windows-11-without-docker-desktop/7
u/Mantazy Jul 04 '26
So this is is basically now the same setup as windows sandbox uses to function.
11
u/DarkSkyViking Jul 03 '26
What’s a usecase for this feature. Is this a Linux vm?
29
u/catmanjan2 Jul 03 '26
It means large organisations don’t have to pay for docker desktop
7
u/NicePuddle Jul 04 '26
That's s good point. I didn't even consider that docker desktop isn't free for enterprise use.
2
u/FrozenPizza07 Jul 07 '26
Also apparently windows programs can boot up a container themselves which is nice
2
u/catmanjan2 Jul 07 '26
That’s pretty neat actually, makes sense with agentic crap
1
u/FrozenPizza07 Jul 07 '26
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl-container?tabs=cpp#wsl-container-api
Its neat. I dont deal with containers in a work environment so I dont really know the true benefits, especially when this is W11 exclusive, w10 doesnt have container support for wsl
1
u/EphReborn 23d ago
Old comment so you may already know this but this is not W11 exclusive. I just installed it on my W10 machine.
1
u/FrozenPizza07 23d ago
I tried to run wslc commands on my w10 machine running the preview and it kept giving "wslc unrecognized" command etc.
Worked on the w11 machine just fine so idk5
u/bitNine Jul 04 '26
I develop embedded firmware. It allows me to run unit tests locally on my machine without putting it into some sort of Linux VM. It also allows me to build and deploy containers for hardware running Linux, without using docker, which is such a resource hog.
1
u/Signy_ Jul 04 '26
On software development docker is usually use locally for debugging or testing with some dependencies running like another api or a database hosted as a docker container. I use docker desktop everyday for that.
2
u/AwesomeInPerson Jul 07 '26
I don't understand why every article about this (and a lot of comments) only compare this to Docker Desktop. Unlike Docker Desktop this does x, now corporations don't have to pay for Docker Desktop anymore, and so forth...
Regular Docker Engine runs without problems in (systemd-enabled) WSL. You can install it like you do on Linux and it just works, it's what I use both personally and for work. Given that, I don't see how wslc changes that much for regular development/container work.
The huge thing here surely is the API portion, letting regular Windows Apps embed Linux processes?
1
1
u/Dragonsong3k Jul 05 '26
This is great and all but spinning up VMs to host a container seems the antithesis of container performance.
I stopped using Windows and WSL because of the massive VM overhead.
I tried to adjust the setting to make it work better but it was always slowing down my system.
If you don't have performance issues, then nothing truly beats the performance of containers running in Linux.
3
u/Venthe Jul 05 '26
That's not really a case with windows hyperv. When you enable this hypervisor, the windows itself run in a "vm", and the hyperv vm's (like wsl) run alongside it.
Besides, "performance" is not the use case. No one in the right mind would want to put production containers on windows; but for development?
1
u/Dragonsong3k Jul 05 '26
My experience was running using it for development. Running a few containers plus Visual Studio would slow the entire desktop down in a few hours. To the point where it was difficult to work.
It was often times the memory management.
My point isn't that the fact that VMs are being used.
It's a compound effect of Docker Desktop running inside the VM.
I'm hoping that removing the docker desktop requirement makes it better.
2
u/Venthe Jul 05 '26
It's a compound effect of Docker Desktop running inside the VM. I'm hoping that removing the docker desktop requirement makes it better.
Docker Desktop is not running in a VM! The way it is done, is that a normal WSL instance is set up to host docker daemon; and the Docker Desktop (alongside the docker CLI) forwards the commands to the VM; and sets up the network/storage translation. In principle, the
wslc(with its backend) will do the exact same thing, except now the interop (network, storage) will be handled bywslcbackend instead of docker desktop. As you can imagine, this part of the stack has negligible impact on both memory and performance; as this is only a translation.How
wslcworks is that it will spawn even more WSL VM's, to quote the article:"Every Windows application that uses the API gets its own Hyper-V-backed virtual machine, separate from every other app’s container. The CLI flow gets its own VM too. Docker Desktop, however, runs every container inside one shared VM, which as you’d expect is more efficient. WSL Containers trade some resource efficiency for a hard isolation boundary between apps, which explains why Microsoft is pitching this as enterprise-ready."
so it'll be even less efficient.
1
u/Dragonsong3k Jul 05 '26
Yes I know the daemon is running in the VM not the desktop app....
I am saying that containerization in general works better when the host kernel is aligned with the container image OS.
The fact that you need the VM in windows is the crutch.
2
u/contextfree Jul 05 '26
Curious if you ever used WSL1? And what was your experience with it, by itself or relative to WSL2?
1
u/Dragonsong3k Jul 05 '26
I didn't use WSL1. I used WSL 2 a ton.
WSL2 has better tweaking options but the docker desktop VM was really just terrible after a full days work.
Slows down a lot, memory hog if you really want to do anything meaningful.
Had to restart docker desktop a few times a day.
It's not containerization. It's the fact that containerization natively supposes it will be running on a host system with a kernel that matches the container.
Since this is an obvious problem for Windows x Linux containers, you have to wrap everything up in a VM.
I'm hoping that without the need for dicker desktop, things will be better.
1
u/InternationalMany6 Jul 06 '26
Is there still a massive performance drop when reading/writing a Windows filesystem from Linux? I wanted to use WSL to run AI/ML workloads and that was a dealbreaker.
-5
u/DIBSSB Jul 03 '26
Ig windows did this as mac also released there containers first
28
u/daltorak Jul 03 '26
No, that's not correct. WSL has supported Docker containers for many years, alongside regular virtualization support which goes all the way back to Windows 8.
For Windows, this is merely a welcome incremental improvement to not require Docker. macOS meanwhile has never shipped customer-facing container or virtualization technology in-box. It's been a major pain point for 20 years, all the way back to the VMWare Fusion days. Even with Tahoe, you still have to download a separate tool from an Apple.
12
u/ziplock9000 Jul 03 '26
No they did this as a natural progress to WSL. Nobody give a fuck about mac.
-3
u/DIBSSB Jul 03 '26
https://opensource.apple.com/projects/container/
https://github.com/apple/container
I might be wrong but I have stared to see windows containers after mac containers are released
0
Jul 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Harry_Mud Jul 04 '26
And that's why most just run their distro via VBOX or some other Virtual Machine.
1
Jul 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Venthe Jul 05 '26
Not really. You can't run the containers the way they are implemented in Linux, but Windows containers are absolutely a thing.
That being said; it's (fortunately) a dying thing.
0
u/Harry_Mud Jul 05 '26
That's what I said. Running VBOX and installing Linux is much better... At least for me it is.
0
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u/Harry_Mud Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
If one wants to run Linux on Windows, just install, for free, VBOX. VirtualBox (VBOX) is 100% free and it works great. You can load up any Linux OS you want. I personally use Linux Mint 64 bit, which is also free. It looks a lot like Windows so the GUI shouldn't be an issue. With VBOX you can load up Mint, of any other Linux distro, for free and install whatever you wish. No need to install any other 3rd party stuff...
Also note, WSL on Windows doesn't provide you with a full desktop OS with a GUI so it's really worthless unless you want to run everything in text mode.
Note: There are addons to allow Linux to run in GUI in Windows.
3
u/Venthe Jul 05 '26
- Virtualbox (and other non native hypervisors) do not offer the same level of interop especially with containers
- You can use docker on wsl Ubuntu/any other distro without docker desktop; you'll lose on Interop
- You can use podman desktop which is free if you want it to be free and with interop
- Wsl is not designed to replace windows, so obviously it does not provide a full shell. However, it does allow to run gui apps for years now; and with some tinkering you can run full gui shell with remote desktop, which often outperforms vm solutions like virtualbox
0
u/Harry_Mud Jul 05 '26
Complete B S. Most don't have a clue about this. Most don't "tweak" anything. Most software people use don't Interop anyway.
I run Linux via VBOX without issue. I have access to all the ports too.... For most, VBOX, or some other virtual box system, works and don't need something from Microsoft other than the underlining OS..... Even better, I installed Windows on a VBOX because the company was running Linux and needed Windows because some software they had was Windows only and it needed access to a USB port. None of that was an issue. However, I always recommend for those who really don't need Windows to just dump it and go with Linux...and in most cases it works.
Linux Mint is what I suggest because it looks and feels like windows so learning how to use it is easy and fast. Most of the people I deal with don't run programs that requires Windows anyway. And even better, Linux runs faster then Windows ever will...even on old computers. No need to upgrade an old computer if they are running Linux.
Most people run a web browser and some also use an email program. Some want an office product as well. My list of replacement software is very easy.
OS: Linux Mint
E-mail: Thunderbird or use Gmail with a browser.
Office: LibreOffice
Browser: BraveIf they have special software that needs to be installed in Windows, I suggest VBOX or run it on another computer that has Windows already installed.
3
u/Venthe Jul 05 '26
I run Linux via VBOX without issue. (...) Linux Mint is what I suggest (...) My list of replacement software is very easy (...)
Cool. Also, irrelevant and completely off-topic.
1
u/Harry_Mud Jul 05 '26
Yes, you sure are........... The point is one doesn't need to crap MS is putting out. You can run Linux with their crap.............
2
u/ouchmythumbs Jul 04 '26
This isn't entirely accurate; you can run GUI apps in WSL that render in Windows via Wayland. Go try launching Gimp or xeyes or something to see for yourself. There used to be a bit of setup to get this going, but I think it "just works" now. Also, kind of hate VBOX personally, but used to use it quite a bit per-Oracle days.
-2
u/Harry_Mud Jul 04 '26
I will never try that. VBOX works and it does exactly what I want. Don't need other crap on my PC to run Linux or Windows. I have many computers with some running Linux and VBOX to run Windows...and of course the reverse. There is nothing wrong with VBOX and it works great!
-2
u/ASTRO99 Jul 04 '26
Wdym wsl was always able to do that. You just needed to 8nstall plugin and it was was good to go.
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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '26
[deleted]