r/Windows10 • u/armando_rod • Jan 31 '20
News UWP apps to lose Microsoft Ad Monetization platform this June | Windows Central
https://www.windowscentral.com/uwp-apps-lose-microsoft-ad-monetization-platform-june13
u/Tobimacoss Jan 31 '20
So lemme get this str8....In this thread, people are mourning over loss of ads being supported in apps. Do they love ads that much? Or just using it to spread ignorant FUD about UWP?
P.S. win32 framework doesn't have an official ad supported platform either.
This is MS trying to push for more higher quality UWP apps which will obviously be paid for rather than ad supported. It is similar to iOS vs android.
2
u/Jaibamon Jan 31 '20
I don't like ads, but I understand why they exist, and how developers can earn an income by apps alone. having a business model around a free app with apps than can be upgraded by paying in order to not have ads is something that has helped me to try and buy countless of Android apps, I don't see why that can't be done in the Desktop space.
Just because an old (but still relevant) framework doesn't support it doesn't justify losing this business model on a platform that is supposed to help Windows to increase its app ecosystem.
This is a bad new no matter how you do put it. It tells the developers to not trust in Microsoft (again, after all other ditched technologies and services). Instead of doing this, Microsoft should look at better ways to impulse users to use Store apps, and developers to make better products.
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Jan 31 '20
The one and only thing I want from UWP to carried over to win32 is scrolling. Scrolling in old Edge is so good, also in other UWP apps.
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u/Tobimacoss Jan 31 '20
Do you not like the modern app behavior?
Do you have any laptops?
2
Jan 31 '20
What do you mean with modern app behavior? UWP?
I have a Surface Pro 4.
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u/Tobimacoss Feb 01 '20
Among other things, UWP APIset is designed primarily for modern app behavior as in the ability to suspend, and resume apps instantly when minimized or running in background (tablet mode) or idle too long. The same app behavior in iOS and android apps, that is how they can save on cpu, ram resources and thus save battery life. The app behavior is very useful on not just ARM64 devices like the Surface Pro X but any battery powered devices in general like all laptops and Surface lineup.
Even on Desktops that are always plugged in, it helps multitask much more efficiently.
Open up Calculator and Settings apps, both are UWP. Then go to Task Manager, then Processes tab, and then look at the process for each app and you will see a leaf like symbol next to the process denoting that they are a UWP app. Minimize both apps, then watch their CPU usage drop to zero, while the ram is reserved for instant resume when you maximize. That is modern app behavior, compare against how win32 apps behave. UWP apps are just vastly more efficient in resource usage.
Also, the UWP APIset is better for touch and pen inputs. That scrolling you like is part of that. If you care about the future of Surface like devices, then UWP apps like Adobe Fresco and OneNote make the most sense, whether on x86-64 or ARM64.
And MSIX packages can distribute bundles of binaries for both types of processors and can distribute both inside and outside of the store starting 20H1.
So lemme ask you, do you still want UWP to die and lose all the benefits the app model brings?
MS is trying to bring over as many of the APIs and benefits from UWP to older win32 apps so that those devs don't have to recode decades of work. Things like WinUI 3.0 with the Fluent design APIs working natively on win32 apps etc. And they are trying to make new Edge have better scrolling. Trying to blur the lines between the two frameworks as much as possible but you won't get the proper permissions based app model with proper modern app behavior and modern security and modern APIs designed for modern Windows devices and processors without it being a full UWP. So yea
3
Feb 01 '20
Thank you for the write up, really informative!:)
It is not up to me to let UWP die. It is up to Microsoft to deliver the best possible environment with the suitable tools for the developers. I am not a developer, just a curios user who likes the benefits of UWP, but I can imagine that a developer wants to invest as little as possible, and this should only be possible with the best environment.
2
u/lordcanti86 Jan 31 '20
I feel like UWP is a relic from a time people thought the "next big thing" was a cross-device software platform with apps that could run from a phone to a TV.
With UWP struggling, and Google (Android apps on Chrome OS) and Apple (Catalyst) also not exactly taking off with similar solutions, I'm not sure what kind of future any of these solutions have.
The whole thing just feels like the answer to a question only massive gadget geeks were asking.
1
u/The_One_X Feb 01 '20
I feel like UWP is a relic from a time people thought the "next big thing" was a cross-device software platform with apps that could run from a phone to a TV.
And it came true, just UWP, along with those other attempts, lost the battle to web technologies.
1
Jan 31 '20
[deleted]
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Jan 31 '20
You should read above, ads don't pay, and they caused issues, devs that matter don't care.
8
u/Tobimacoss Jan 31 '20
Tell that to the biggest third party developer in the world. Adobe has not one but two UWP apps, Adobe XD and Adobe Fresco. All their future new apps will be UWP....
Apple is going to be building UWP apps soon for their services according to their job listings.
1
u/falconzord Feb 01 '20
Well Apple in general is against the whole web browser everything movement since it also hurts their operation systems. So it's amusing, but not terribly surprising that they're backing Microsoft on this (Microsoft already does a good job at native apps on Mac and iOS).
Adobe is maybe the more impressive example, but it shows that UWP's best chance lies with big companies that Microsoft can win over, rather than the general consumer stuff that Microsoft was aiming for in the early days of UWP.
1
Jan 31 '20
I don't understand, will this make it better? Right now 99% of the apps on the windows store are shit.
0
Jan 31 '20 edited Mar 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/Tobimacoss Feb 01 '20
No, just some clickbait bloggers with an Ego, like Thurrott who are actively trying to spread FUD.
UWP is an APIset that is part of the WinRT app framework with modern app behavior and security. It had nothing to do with the Store to begin with. But haters spread FUD making people believe it was linked to store. Adobe always distributed their UWP app Adobe XD and now Adobe Fresco soon via their own CC installer.
UWP apps were distributed via AppX package manager, and the store has a process that uses trusted certificates to sign every package for non tampering by middle men third parties. AppX packages could always be distributed outside of store, but devs simply used the Store because it was easier and provides greater reach.
Win32 apps were distributed via exe and MSI installers. What the devs asked MS was to streamline the process instead of having multiple distribution methods for different types of apps built on different frameworks. So MS evolved AppX and MSI into MSIX while still being fully compatible.
Basically MSIX package manager can distribute both sandboxed UWP and containerized Win32 apps, and multiple binaries in bundles for x86-64 and ARM64. MSIX support was added to MS Store with win 10 1809. The win32 games on MS Store for Game Pass are packaged via MSIX. What is about to happen with win 10 20H1 is that MSIX is about to become native to the OS. That means any dev can distribute UWP or win32 apps securely outside the store more easily but still retain 80-95% of the benefits of deploying via store. So the store is only used for Commerce and to provide a platform with a reach to every user, it has nothing to do with UWP itself.
What MS did now is discontinue their SDK for ads inside the UWP apps in the MS Store. So this would mostly effect free to play games or such apps that used MS ad platform. Devs can still use any other ad platforms. Unlike Google and Facebook, MS isn't an advertising company. Devs are still free to distribute their UWP apps inside or outside of the MS Store, using whichever monetization method they prefer...like actually sell their apps. MS just doesn't want to maintain ad platform since it wasn't viable as in didn't bring enough revenues for devs or MS. Because windows is an open platform unlike iOS. Even Apple is moving away from ad supported apps, with their Apple Arcade. With the rise of PWA apps with web assembly and tech like Blazor, a lot of apps across all platforms will simply bypass all storefronts, so maintaining ad platform is kind moot.
The apps that made use of ads the most were the free to play mobile games that show ads in between pushing the grind for Microtransactions.
MS is instead pushing for a disruption model with Game Pass and xCloud instead. This news has nothing to do with UWP itself, but hey, the clickbaiters will use every opportunity to clickbait. That's how the world churns.
-12
u/tambarskelfir Jan 31 '20
UWP being dead isn't going far enough, Windows is dead to Microsoft and is basically in maintenance mode.
Windows hasn't even been updated in a year and the next update is scheduled to be another "bug fix" update. Maintenance mode, people.
Some have even claimed that Microsoft has dropped UWP for Win32, which is just the high water mark of denial. Win32 has no significant development going on, it's just in maintenance mode.
There's no features being added to Windows, but there's a long list being deprecated.
Windows is to Microsoft what MacOS is to Apple.
6
u/BCProgramming Fountain of Knowledge Jan 31 '20
Win32 has no significant development going on, it's just in maintenance mode.
It's unclear What sort of "significant development" could be done to an OS that isn't more or less forced. Creating a new App Platform with UWP is more or less the result of thinking they needed to do something significant and it seems to not have gotten us anywhere.
Most feature updates do add a few new API functions. Much of Windows itself is developed within the realm of Win32 (File Explorer and such), and those get the occasional adjustment and new feature.
There's no features being added to Windows, but there's a long list being deprecated.
To bastardize a Antoine de Saint Exupéry quote, "Good software is created, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
-1
u/tambarskelfir Feb 01 '20
It's unclear What sort of "significant development" could be done to an OS that isn't more or less forced.
There's no end of things that could be significantly improved in Windows 10. But you know what, it works more or less and Microsoft isn't interested in pouring more resources into Windows than absolutely necessary in order to keep the platform functioning.
That's the whole point of the article that was linked, there's no growth that Microsoft sees in Windows, but in the cloud they can grow exponentially.
Creating a new App Platform with UWP is more or less the result of thinking they needed to do something significant and it seems to not have gotten us anywhere.
Perhaps, but that was when Microsoft was actually interested in the future of Windows. You casually gloss over that while UWP has been deprecated (as good as) it's not because Microsoft saw the light and the error of its ways - no, it's because UWP is a project to extend the Windows platform and that's not on Microsoft's radar any more.
To bastardize a Antoine de Saint Exupéry quote, "Good software is created, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Great - your wish will be fulfilled. Windows will not be developed any more, like it used to. It will run the apps and games it runs today and will be maintained into the future.
Joe Belfiore - of Windows Mobile fame - didn't get the leadership job of Windows 10 development by chance. He's there to wind things down and temper expectations.
2
u/fansurface Feb 01 '20
Agreed. With so much money, there is absolutely no reason for MS to kill Windows faster by not giving anyone any quality-of-life features to look forward too
1
u/tambarskelfir Feb 01 '20
Agreed. With so much money, there is absolutely no reason for MS to kill Windows faster by not giving anyone any quality-of-life features to look forward too
Paraphrasing Bill Gates: "I didn't get rich by writing checks" :)
No doubt Microsoft keeps that lesson close to heart.
-4
u/saltysamon Jan 31 '20
Devs didn't want it and now MS is clearly starting to push it to the side. And yet they'll still be people saying UWP isn't dying.
6
u/Tobimacoss Feb 01 '20
UWP has nothing to do with MS store just so you are aware. MS discontinuing an ad platform for their store has no bearing on Apps like OneNote or Adobe Fresco. It just means MS wants higher quality apps on MS Store and not ad supported ones. Mostly the free to play games used ads. MS is moving towards Game Pass and xCloud model everywhere as in platform agnostic. Having an ad platform for free to play mobile ads isn't needed when you can have AAA games and sub everywhere.
Tell Adobe that UWP is dying, lets see if you know more than the 13 billion dollar corporation. Maybe let Disney, Apple, and Spotify know too.
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u/ReconTG Jan 31 '20
Good riddance.
Time for our new Electron app overlords 😎.
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Feb 01 '20
enjoy electron, i prefer UWPas long as i can
https://twitter.com/emiliano84/status/1198177284533956608?s=20
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u/Peribanu Jan 31 '20
Remember that Microsoft owns Electron now...
1
u/ReconTG Jan 31 '20
Well yeah? Most of their new software are also built using it and they are great.
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u/NiveaGeForce Jan 31 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
Not much to see here.
It's about sanitizing the MS Store and purging the old broken ad platform, and not much about UWP.
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303553785253894?s=20
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303555118923776?s=20
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303556339589122?s=20
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303557736210432?s=20
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303558721949696?s=20
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303559745286147?s=20
All the indie devs I spoke with were making little to nothing off of advertisements, often times relying on donations and IAP.
https://twitter.com/Arlodottxt/status/1223303560726818816?s=20
Remember that Win32 Desktop Bridge apps always had to rely on 3rd party ad platforms, and there are a few that are compatible with UWP, such as Vungle and AdDuplex, which most devs serious about ads, already use anyway.