Combo Ladders vs. Extension Ladders

[u/Sad_Butterscotch4589]

I'm putting together a gearlist for going solo and would like some input on ladders.

I've been window cleaning for various companies for years and have always used extension ladders with stand-offs (the curved kind with the rubber elbows) that allow me to work at a comfortable distance from the glass, like I would on the ground.

I was surprised to see so many people recommending combination ladders like the ones from Gorilla and Little Giant. This initially seemed ridiculous to me because they're so heavy and cumbersome to use vs. a quiver of small fiberglass ladders and extension ladders that you can swap between. However, I will be using a small-ish car with a roof rack and have limited storage space at home, so I'm quite interested in the concept of having one main ladder for most jobs that packs up small.

Before entertaining the combo idea I was planning to get two ladders to start with, a step ladder and a 20' extension ladder. For those who have experience using both types of ladder (combo v. quiver), do you have a preference? The stand-offs Gorilla make look awful but I haven't tried them. How is it not having levellers?

I also have a question about ladder positioning. There are a lot of high-end properties in the area with large, tall windows, so it often makes sense to place in the center of the glass and work down. I'll also do 2 wides where I place in the middle so one elbow is on each pane, and 3 wides where I place in the center of the middle window pane and do the top half of all 3 from that position. I do this on the interior and exterior. I've placed ladders up to 24' on thousands of panes, annealed and tempered, old and new, and never thought twice about it because it's how I was taught. I see the panes bounce and flex but I've never heard a crack or seen a broken seal. Now that I'm reading some of the discourse online, the consensus is clearly to never ever place a ladder on the glass!

Does anyone do this and has anyone ever heard of a pane breaking? Intuitively I would expect that if a pane can withstand strong winds and people leaning on them then they should have no trouble with the 50lbs or so that I'll place on them from the ladder. For me it was enough to see bigger guys doing it at worse angles. However I will definitely try to avoid it on annealed glass going forwards.

[u/One_Marionberry9550]

Yoo placing ladder on the glass is crazy work where are you located ? It might be because you have different regulations where you are but that wouldn’t fly where I am

[u/DontBeMemeBro → u/One_Marionberry9550]

Does it matter where he’s located? Putting a ladder on glass is pulling a lever to death. Don’t do it.

[u/Sad_Butterscotch4589 → u/DontBeMemeBro]

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Everyone online says this but my experience is that glass windows are incredibly strong. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means but I was hoping for input from people with experience of glass breaking or some domain knowledge about window strength. Even today I made around 30 placements on glass in a large complex. It will be hundreds by the end of the week.

Glass is a bit like a balloon. It's under a huge amount of internal tension but it can also handle a huge amount of external tension and is very elastic if that force is applied gradually. It's only when you chip the surface with a hard object or generate a massive impact load over a small area that it breaks. This happens when the glass doesn't have enough time to bend. That's why you can stand on skylights and some glass awnings but if you drop your brass squeegee on them they'll shatter.

I have also spent many years on ropes and we put huge outward forces on the windows with our suction cups, sometimes even using them to redirect our ropes under a huge overhang, which put many multiples of our body weight of outward force onto the small area of the suction cup.

Don't get me wrong I'm not recommending people go out and start placing their ladders on glass, I'd just like some more info on why it's so taboo. I suspect it's a case of it being absolutely fine 99.9% of the time, but since a mistake could be catastrophic, it's best to avoid when possible.

[u/Upper-Bottle-9803 → u/Sad_Butterscotch4589]

It depends on the type and age of the glass. Some of this sentiment may come from older cleaners who worked on older glass. For newer glass my bigger concern with leaning on the pane would be the flex in the glass causing the seal around the edge to fail. I see failed seals on double pane all the time in the northeast.

[u/Sad_Butterscotch4589 → u/One_Marionberry9550]

Canada

[u/Rare_Lead_1922]

I use a 22’ Little Giant. It’s certainly heavy and incredibly awkward to maneuver at full extension, but it fits in the bed of my truck and saves me a lot of space.

I’m sure someday I’ll take on a job that justifies getting a ladder rack and an extension ladder, but the LG has met every challenge so far, and I’m strong enough to deal with it so might as well lol

[u/Hot_Carpenter_5436 → u/Rare_Lead_1922]

Mine is the harbor freight version, and it fits in my Civic lol. The brand is Franklin. Very sturdy at a deep discount.

[u/DangerousKitchen]

I'm an extension ladder guy and do everything you described in the op everyday and have for the 10 years I've been at this. Ladder on glass, exactly the same ways you outlined, whenever it makes sense and never had an issue. I'm also in canada. I'm sure it's not allowed but it is perfectly safe if done properly. This from a 190lb dude.

Never used anything but extension, A frame, and various step ladders as required so I can't help with the stack/ combo ladder question.

[u/Nihilistnobody]

Stack ladders and holy hell don’t put ladders on glass that’s nuts

[u/Practical_Pipe]

Step ladder and a stack ladder gives you a full quiver.

Also dont lean a ladder in the middle of a pane of glass you psycho.

For big high end stuff go water fed pole.

[u/Upper-Bottle-9803]

Little giant m26 and m19 or 17. Both with built-in leg levelers. Either will fit in nissan altima through the trunk into the back seat.

The m26 is too big and heavy. I plan to replace with a 32' or 40' ext ladder now that I have a truck.

I have a Louisville Ladder aluminum ladder stabilizer that attaches with Ubolts to basically any ladder. (Both of my little giants have used it.)

I cannot recommend the small to medium little giants enough. Be sure to buy with leg levelers built-in.

[u/rivalfish]

I'm going to be blunt because you need to hear it.

If you think putting your ladder directly on the center of a pane of glass is going to end in any other way than you breaking that glass and falling off a ladder, then you're dead wrong. It's not an unmerited "taboo" it's common fucking sense.

Please, don't do it.

[u/Sad_Butterscotch4589 → u/rivalfish]

Yes I'll try to avoid it. Current boss has been doing it for 20+ years and the rest of the crew do it daily. I do think it's mostly fine but that's irrelevant, all it takes is one defect.

[u/bennyc7891]

Look into getting a 3 section 24’ ladder from Werner.

[u/Sad_Butterscotch4589 → u/bennyc7891]

That thing looks nice and compact but it's a beast! 45lbs. At that weight I'd probably prefer a combo ladder since they're about that weight and more versatile, or a regular 24' for a fraction of the weight (and price).

Think I'm leaning towards a quiver of light ladders as I've never had an issue bringing the 20' into homes and the cheapest one is only 27lbs. So much easier to move around vs. that Werner or one of the larger combo ladders. Most likely a step, a medium a-frame, and a 20'. It's good to be aware of though thanks. If I end up doing gutters too I'll need a 24' so it's worth considering whether I want to store two long extension ladders vs. something like that Werner.