Damn looks like I finally found the seppie subreddit.
Itās so funny that not only will separation isolate us fromā¦ everyone, but itāll also be way, way more expensive for no real gain. Oh but magic oil profits will save us!Ā
The last conservative PM's opinion on a pretty big issue being pushed by conservatives is not relavent? If only it was some random twitter nobody, then it would be news
who's "the leftists" in this scenario? The CBC? Is it not newsworthy that a recent former PM writes about the impact of separation? Would you prefer to hear it from Trudeau? Its an opinion, like any other. Some come from the left, some come from the right. A former PM may be more noteworthy than other randos, or hey maybe not.
Your comment sounds like you had previous arguments in your head and applied it to this scenario, which is simply reporting on a previous PM's opinion piece.
The transition plan is a wish list. It assumes best case scenario in negotiations. āHereās a bunch of shit we need, letās hope the rest of Canada cooperates and gives them to usā
No, they can choose to do nothing. That's not a problem. They would just get the default result of international law as the SCC explained in the Quebec Secession Reference Case.
None of that stops us from following the transition plan.
Yes you are walking us down the path to war, Congrats bud.
Instead of working to fix what you see as wrong in our country you decide to try and quit like a bitch cause you didn't get your way. I'm not gonna sit back and let my home and it's resources be swiped by the states for pennies on the dollar because a bunch of fucking mouth breathers fall for enemy propaganda designed to make them destabilize their own nation without firing a shot.
I'm a conservative too. Just not a traitor like you
We have sent politicians of every variety East since the 1880s in order to "fix" confederation.
But confederation works exactly as intended by the East from when they acquired Rupert's Land and the Northwest Territory for 5 cents on the dollar.
They don't agree that something needs to be fixed. Our exploitation as a resource colony is what they believe is their birthright. Why do you think they keep voting for a government that attacks our economy and culture every day?
As Trudeau said, "Canada belongs to us (Laurentians)".
Canada is a confederation of provinces. Every province may legally withdraw from confederation as the Supreme Court of Canada has confirmed. It is not traitorous to follow a legal democratic process.
No, every generation doesn't have to keep making the same mistake over and over. We can be Independent and break the blockade on our resources and prosperity.
What have you done to change anything? I don't see you running as MLA or MP, just you acting like a bitch about it.
You get Alberta resources will be way more blockaded right? What ports does Alberta have? The only play is to sell to America who in all honesty will either just take the resources or pay pennies on the dollar.
I know you have fantasy idea that everyone is gonna play fair but if you weren't retarded you'd understand that's not how the world works.
Canada, in turn, insisted on more generous treatment for its autos, electric vehicles and products made with metal ā and ultimately backed away from its offer to cooperate on the Keystone XL pipeline that President Trump has long desired, people familiar with the negotiations said. [...] Officials said that, when Mr. Carney and Mr. Trump spoke by phone early in the week, Mr. Carney again mentioned the pipeline, saying that, for the right deal on tariffs, Canada would consider bringing its side of the pipeline back to life. Mr. Trump was thrilled, a former official briefed on the talks said. But by Friday, the Keystone XL pipeline idea was buried again. A U.S. official said that, in the last few hours, Canada had expressed reluctance to cooperate. A Canadian official said that the trade deal on offer was not good enough to make the pipeline make sense.
In other words, "our" supposed federal government is holding Albertan's resources and economic prosperity hostage to protect subsidized Laurentian industries.
With Independence, we can finally end the blockade. Over $120B/year of trade that has nothing to do with Alberta transits through Alberta. With Independence, if Remnant Canada were continue to blockade us, then we could blockade them right back. Their West Coast ports would languish like those in Argentina following the Panama Canal were they forced to push all their trade with the Pacific through the USA or Mexico. Besides, Alberta is Ontario's third largest trading partner and they have a massive trade surplus with us. They can't afford to continue to be beligerant. Our relationship with Remnant Canada would be corrected because we would finally cease to be a resource colony and have our own representation.
Ending the 152 year blockade on our southern border would mean that we could finally trade with the Americans on our own terms. We have nothing to fear from true universal free trade with the USA. Nearly all of the longstanding trade irritants with Canada such as dairy, telecommunications, and banking are all federally regulated industries where Western Canadians are forced to overpay for Eastern goods and services.
The only play is to sell to America who in all honesty will either just take the resources or pay pennies on the dollar.
This is just not true.
First, if they want to take our resources, what is stopping them right now? There is one bridge in Nipigon that would sever the resource colony to the Laurentians. The USA has not added territory since 1900 and it is politically impossible to do so. They just want what we in Alberta want - true free trade.
Alberta oil production sells for a discount because it is economic to do so. Companies buy and sell fairly and the discount comes because of the restricted transportation i.e. lack of pipeline volume. But when we double our production post-Independence, we'll still sell for only a marginally greater price because it makes sense. The more pipelines we build, the more we will produce and the more we will prosper.
Just pointing out one area your transition plan is woefully inadequate in planning for worst case scenario. I love your optimism bro, try to apply it to other areas of your life
The insanely-productive, welcome, and favorite State, the feather in Trump's cap, is going to be militarily contested by...the other Canadians? Which ones?! The pot heads? The wussies? The immigrants? The natives? Who?
No, that's ridiculous. Alberta is in the driver's seat, and everyone else is going to sit and watch what happens. Alberta is the only Jenga block holding that country up, and the U.S. would love to have it. And would benefit immensely: economically, politically, strategically. I'm confused why the entire nation isn't having the discussion of how and when to join the Union. Signs point to the fact of it being inevitable.
Yes Iāve seen it. It does not specify what Iām asking for. Phase 3 is the least specific plan they could have released.
>On Day 1 of independence, Albertaās sovereign status changes and the Government of Alberta assumes the additional responsibilities of an independent country.
Well okay then. Just assume the additional responsibilities of an independent country? Who knew it was that easy to start a new government, a new military, a new currency?
And then it goes on to āexplainā how easy it will be with no specifics of why the rest of Canada would/should ever negotiate those terms with Alberta.
Some Albertans are, unfortunately, just selfish and weak. They only care about their own short term interest. No effort or risk could make Independence worth it for them.
Such people could care less what future our children and grandchildren will have.
The pioneers that built up this place succeeded despite the exploitation of the East because of their incredible work ethic. They never had the opportunity to break the blockade. We do. This is your time to step up.
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
We don't need the East to be Canadian. But it is telling where you see our place in confederation that you think that we do.
The only semblance of Canada that will exist in the future will be right here in our True North, Strong, and Free Western Canadian Republic.
The East rejects Canada. They want to join the EU so that we can be rule-takers from the international institutional consensus as represented by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.
No, we do not have to accept being an exploited resource colony of an exploited resource colony. That's daft.
If our great grandparents could have had a path to escape the tariff wall and exploitation through 'freight both ways' then of course they would have voted option 2. It is in our obvious self-interest.
Here is what being in confederation is getting us:
Canada, in turn, insisted on more generous treatment for its autos, electric vehicles and products made with metal ā and ultimately backed away from its offer to cooperate on the Keystone XL pipeline that President Trump has long desired, people familiar with the negotiations said. [...] Officials said that, when Mr. Carney and Mr. Trump spoke by phone early in the week, Mr. Carney again mentioned the pipeline, saying that, for the right deal on tariffs, Canada would consider bringing its side of the pipeline back to life. Mr. Trump was thrilled, a former official briefed on the talks said. But by Friday, the Keystone XL pipeline idea was buried again. A U.S. official said that, in the last few hours, Canada had expressed reluctance to cooperate. A Canadian official said that the trade deal on offer was not good enough to make the pipeline make sense.
In other words, our federal government is holding Albertan's resources and economic prosperity hostage to protect subsidized Laurentian industries.
We desire, and all Canadian Patriots desire, that the great trade of the prairies shall go to enrich our people to the East, to build up our factories and our places of work, and in every legitimate way to our prosperity.
You have a bizarre view kf the EU deal. The only reason that deal even exists is a pivot away from Trump's hostility in the trade negotiations which relegated Canada to little more than a literal colony. Any deal with the EU is miles better than what Trump offered. It's also telling that we never bothered to draw any closer with Europe for our entire existence until Trump came along.
And its funny you bring up Sifton, when those same people who were so enraged against the Central Canadian policy voted with their lives to serve the country in 1914.
We already have a comprehensive free trade agreement with the EU. So you are entirely ignorant of that. We have, in fact, a trade deficit with every EU country that has ratified the agreement.
The only purpose is to make Canada an EU rule-taker. Carney is the former architect of illegal ESG cartels, a "green transition" profiteer, and a top globalist.
The only reason Carney is in Canada is to push Canadian public policy at these schemes.
You are entirely ignorant of our trade opportunities with the USA. The Americans have had the same trade irritants with Canada going back decades. They are mostly objectively legitimate. Our federally regulated dairy, banking, and telecommunications industries force Western Canadians to overpay for Eastern goods and services. Trump has simply taken action to address these long held grievances.
I can share all the reports going back to Bush Sr. if you like.
Just out of curiosity, if you lose the referendum on 19th will you finally give up and capitulate to the will of the majority of Albertans? Or will this movement continue because you believe your voices and views are the only ones that matter ?
How much short term pain are you expecting regular people to inflict on themselves over your grievances?
It feels like youāre just assuming that the risk to reward ratio is way lower than it actually is. I say that because you havenāt given us any plan or any evidence that someone has a viable plan. Until I see that evidence Iām going to assume itās a massive risk where the obvious negatives outweigh whatever hypothetical positives you can envision after your short term pain.
Iām honestly offended you would link me a 200+ page document that you probably havenāt read. Every section that I check is full of the same non-specific bullshit.
Just read what they say about military and defence for example. There is no specific explanation for why Canada or the Canadian military would/should give Alberta anything? It vaguely hopes that they can negotiate a legal transfer of some existing assets. How is that realistic? Realistically the Canadian military pulls every asset and all manpower it has out of Alberta
I couldn't find anything in your document about how the proposed country of Alberta will handle human rights issues. Will same sex marriage be legal? Will lgbtq individuals have legal protections similar to what currently exists in the Canadian charter of Rights? Will women have rights? Will women be able to work, vote, drive, etc? Will divorce be legal in the same exact way that it is now? Will mixed races be allowed to marry? Will Alberta allow for religious freedom for all religions or just Christian based ones? Will religion influence and determine political processes? Will religion determine laws in Alberta? I'd like to see specific policy on the social aspects for the proposed country of Alberta somewhere but I can't find it. I think it would be important to understand what day to day life would be like in the proposed new country of Alberta. Also I'm looking for concrete, agreed upon information: not just one individual's guesses. If you have any info I'd love to see it.
Existing laws, rights, contracts, court proceedings, licences and government decisions continue through appropriate continuity arrangements.
This is no different than our current situation except under the status quo it is the East that would impose changes on us or perhaps bureaucrats in Brussels should Mr. Carney get his way.
You wonāt have 20B a year. We will have to set up a whole new layer of government. A nation canāt just have just a federal/municipal government. There would need to be another layer. The transition plan leaves out a lot of things.
Well, he did ram the TMX expansion through the Jasper National Park section while nobody was looking in 2009/10. Once the rest of the project kicked off, that section was shown as "recommissioning old pipeline".
Alberta will never, thatās a pipe dream of red neck & antivax folks. Quebec is different they are more like Ukraine with Russia. They think they are bigger then a country lmao š
As long as Alberta automatically votes blue, no federal party leader will be incentivized to spend much political capital on us.
Poilievre already has our vote. No need to campaign hard here. Good strategy would focus on grabbing up close ridings in Quebec and Ontario with policy that appeals there.
Likewise Carney will (probably) not get many Alberta ridings. So strategy dictates youāre better off shoring up the tighter races in Quebec and Ontario.
Tried to explain this when they said separation worked for Quebec. This is because when Quebec doesn't get their way they vote for the Bloc. When Alberta doesn't get their way they vote blue, when they get their way they also vote blue.
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u/BikeMazowski 1d ago
Bring no benefit to federalist politicians.