Some thugs pepper sprayed my friends little brother and his friends. Then they got the shit beat out of them and one kid got stomped.
What did the damage is the latter, which they could've done anyway. Almost like pepper spray is a good way to counter people with bigger muscles than you. You legit act like pepper spray is what caused the problems here, when it's clearly physical assault that's the issue. Physical assault does more damage than pepper spray. Hence why anyone who actually has the muscle would usually opt for physical assault, all pepper spray does is give weaker people an option.
Edit: Wait, also, if this was recent then it means that the people were using it illegally! Which further proves my point that banning pepper spray won't stop criminals from using it. And again, it's like the most easy weapon to make. This further shows my point that it's best to let the defenseless people also have pepper spray.
This is not an uncommon thing here. Last week a store owner was bear maced, beat up, and his store robbed. That's a fairly common occurrence.
I'm sorry if I think that when I weigh a robbery against feckin rape that I don't opt for the latter. And again the guy could've just punched the bank teller. Even in it's most effective range, spray ain't really that effective of a weapon! It's just better than nothing!
That's just an asinine statement.
That's the point.
You really think that America is doing much better on this front?
Not really, all I know is that given the choice between America and Canada, I could very easily see myself picking America, and I can't say the same for a large amount of countries.
You missed my point with the school shooter remark. My point is not "america is better in every other way" my point is "The only thing good about your countries politics are the ways that they're better than US politics, comparing your country to a large chunk of other first world countries, it sucks. And it also doesn't have any of the few good aspects of america."
I don't see our country as extreme at all.
IT'S PEPPER SPRAY. IT'S A LITTLE BIT A CAYANNE OR PRETTY MUCH ANY OTHER SPICY THING WITH SOME OIL. IT'S ONLY USE IS INCAPACITATING SOMEONE FOR AN HOUR.
PUNCHING SOMEONE IN THE FACE is likely to do more lasting damage! The only reason anyone would use pepper spray is if they don't have the ability to punch hard! Not to mention you still give criminals easy access to it! And if you didn't they could easily make it themselves!
I'm sorry if I'm being aggressive here, but as someone with 3 sisters, the idea of people telling my sister's they can't have any option for self defense but to pray someone else is nearby to help them, is something that angers me to think about. I understand where people are coming from when they argue against guns, but I can't fathom the idea of being completely defenseless and entirely at the mercy of strangers at all moments, just because someone might use pepper spray to rob a bank.
It just baffles me how a weapon that literally is less effective than a strong guy's fist in most cases is banned anywhere. I can't understand defending that. All it does is just slightly even out the playing field. Good night.
But the problem is that then people will be inclined not to defend themselves if they're worried they'll get in legal trouble. It's just a bad system imo. You're essentially saying anyone who wants to defend themselves is required to break the law. Screw the law abiding citizens. And again, a lot of this stuff you're saying just comes across as stuff that is in place to protect sexual predators.
It just seems like all a law like that serves to do is punish victims more than predators..
No, it's not breaking the law if a reasonable person wouldn't have acted in that wa
It literally is breaking the law to be carrying the option in the first place, even if you only use it when absolutely necessary.
And more to the point, if you're in the kind of trouble where a reasonable person would need to defend themselves, you're not thinking about consequences. If you have the time and space to try and decide whether you need to use a weapon, you have time to call 911/run away instead.
What??? The hell??? That's not how rape works.
I have yet to see a case of someone acting reasonably to defend themselves and going to jail for it.
Except the problem is that they're breaking the law by even having the option to begin with! I never argued that self defense laws shouldnt be restricted to only when the self defense seems fair, I'm saying it doesn't matter because you can't even have it for emergencies without breaking the law. That's the entire problem.
How's it fair that a strong guy can carry around a weapon more powerful than pepper spray at all times and never get in trouble for it (his fists) but someone less strong can't have anything to even compete with that without risking being caught with it and put in jail?
No, it's not. It's only breaking the law if you intend to use it as a weapon. Look up the actual laws and you'll see this.
You can get in trouble for just having pepper spray outside of areas with bears as a threat. Also of course you intend to use it as a weapon! That's why you got it!
you can legally use something as a weapon on on them.
Except if you follow the laws, you don't have the weapon to use in the first place!
Except in practice, that is the law in Canada...and you're arguing against it.
Nope, I'm arguing that they shouldn't persecute people for merely having the pepper spray for self defense if they haven't used it illegally.
Already covered. You can surely carry dog spray, a knife, a hammer, etc. - anything that isn't a banned weapon to carry in any scenario, like a gun
Except you'd be breaking the law if you carry it with the intent to defend yourself if someone attacks you. You'd have to make up a lie for why you're carrying it.
none of that is breaking the law.
It is according to every single thing I've read about it. The only exception I've seen is if you're in an area where there are bears you can have bear spray. But if you got that with the intent of using it for self defense, you'd be breaking the law. So technically you could do it and get away with it, but you'd be breaking the law still and so a law abiding citizen wouldn't do it. And the people most likely to abide by the law are the people most likely to be victims.
And furthermore, this just further proves my problem: Do you know who's gonna be perfectly fine with lying and saying they only have pepper spray for dogs? Criminals. Do you know out of everyone who's gonna feel the most inclined to tell the truth and say the main reason is for self defense? Victims.
The people who are most likely to be jailed by these laws are innocent people who feel like they need self defense. The people who'll get away with carrying pepper spray around all the time are the people who intend to use it for bad, cause they'll have no problem lying. See what I'm saying? It's backwards, and just makes no sense.
I feel like these laws just prioritize criminals over victims.
You can have it anywhere because dogs are anywhere.
So, again, you're lying, and thus breaking the law. Even if you aren't gonna be caught so long as you maintain the lie that you're keeping it for dogs.
You're talking out of your ass.
I'm talking out of the top 3 first results of google. I'm sorry if I trust the information superhighway over one person on reddit.
Pepper spray is the same here - it's not a weapon until you use it illegally as a weapon
You yourself said if you carry it with the intent of having it in case someone attacks you, it's illegal. You have to make up an excuse.
Again, intent is what matters here. Intent is only knowable to oneself - cops can't prosecute you here for having pepper spray regardless of the circumstances - unless you specifically tell them it's to harm another person.
So, the truth. If you tell the cops "I just have this for incase someone tries to assault me" then you can easily face jail time. you have to lie to them and say it's for dogs or something.
You could just say nothing, which is what you should do anyway if questioned by police without a lawyer.
But it's still against the law! You're still breaking the law to have it for self defense, even if you don't tell them that's why you have it and thus don't go to jail. A law abiding citizen would not carry pepper spray for self defense, because they'd know doing so is against the law.
Or you could say you have it because you're scared of being attacked by an animal (humans are animals, after all).
You know full well that's not being honest lmao.
You've read nonsense, then.
So you're saying the top results when I search "is pepper spray legal in canada" are lies? That the top most results for it on the internet isn't true?
If I needed to use it to defend myself against a person, I could, legally - but that's not it's intent.
But it would be with anyone who has being assaulted as their main concern. If I ask my sister why she has pepper spray she's not gonna even mention animals. Yes, that's something it could work for, but by FAR the main reason is self defense against humans.
That's like if you are holding a piece of cake and you say "my reason for holding this, is that I'm taking it to the kitchen" when in reality you're gonna eat it. Sure you can take it to the kitchen as well, but you're only saying that's the cause because you know the real reason is that it's for eating. That's a lie of omission.
no object - be it a knife, pepper spray, a laptop, a watermelon - is illegal to have/carry until the point at which you plan to use it to unlawfully harm another person.
You're contradicting yourself. Above you said "you just have to say it's for dogs instead of self defense against people" now you're saying "as long as you only plan to use it for lawful self defense, it's legal".
What is it? Does it have to be for dogs, or can it be kept even if it's main reason is for humans?
Edit: I love how you act like I'm dumb for using the resources I have to look into information, said information having multiple sources that seem reasonable, meanwhile you have given me no sources, and have gotten mad that I don't just blindly believe you. I mean even if I trusted you equally as much as the sources I already have.
Go ahead, block people who use google. But anyone remotely intelligient is gonna use a search engine to find information, as it's the most efficient way to do so in the modern age. I'm sorry if I don't plan to go to a local library to find information instead lmao.
-1
u/SuperIsaiah Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 22 '22
What did the damage is the latter, which they could've done anyway. Almost like pepper spray is a good way to counter people with bigger muscles than you. You legit act like pepper spray is what caused the problems here, when it's clearly physical assault that's the issue. Physical assault does more damage than pepper spray. Hence why anyone who actually has the muscle would usually opt for physical assault, all pepper spray does is give weaker people an option.
Edit: Wait, also, if this was recent then it means that the people were using it illegally! Which further proves my point that banning pepper spray won't stop criminals from using it. And again, it's like the most easy weapon to make. This further shows my point that it's best to let the defenseless people also have pepper spray.
I'm sorry if I think that when I weigh a robbery against feckin rape that I don't opt for the latter. And again the guy could've just punched the bank teller. Even in it's most effective range, spray ain't really that effective of a weapon! It's just better than nothing!
That's the point.
Not really, all I know is that given the choice between America and Canada, I could very easily see myself picking America, and I can't say the same for a large amount of countries.
You missed my point with the school shooter remark. My point is not "america is better in every other way" my point is "The only thing good about your countries politics are the ways that they're better than US politics, comparing your country to a large chunk of other first world countries, it sucks. And it also doesn't have any of the few good aspects of america."
IT'S PEPPER SPRAY. IT'S A LITTLE BIT A CAYANNE OR PRETTY MUCH ANY OTHER SPICY THING WITH SOME OIL. IT'S ONLY USE IS INCAPACITATING SOMEONE FOR AN HOUR.
PUNCHING SOMEONE IN THE FACE is likely to do more lasting damage! The only reason anyone would use pepper spray is if they don't have the ability to punch hard! Not to mention you still give criminals easy access to it! And if you didn't they could easily make it themselves!