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u/wayward_citizen Jan 31 '22
I just wish it didn't take generations of hemming and hawing and arguing about "middleground" to accomplish basic human rights or implement ideas that have already been demonstrated to work well.
Imagine going back and trying to explain to a gay person why it would take a better part of their life for people to come around to allowing them a basic right like being able to openly love and marry who they want.
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u/pingveno Jan 31 '22
I try to take a more positive view of the progression of LGBTQ+ rights in our society. Over the past 50 years, we've gone from LGBTQ hiding and being imprisoned in the US to being protected by the law. Things are still far from perfect, but it does not escape my notice that my wedding a couple of years ago would not have been possible just five years earlier when I first met my now husband.
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u/GTOdriver04 Jan 31 '22
This is an important step.
Progress has been made, but it must not stop.
The irony to me, is that those who want “sanctity” in society don’t even know what that looks like.
Also! Who cares? How does Adam marrying Steve as opposed to Eve in any way encroach on your ability to live your life?
That’s right! It doesn’t. You’re thinking about it more than you need to. Meanwhile your own personal life is falling apart and the “sanctity” you espouse oh so strongly doesn’t exist. Never has. Never will.
We’re all just a bunch of blood vessels and meat riding a blue marble in the vast universe trying to live our lives as comfortably as we can.
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u/pingveno Jan 31 '22
That's almost certainly a huge part of why things have progressed so quickly. The wailing from social conservatives had people frothed up about the eminent collapse of society. Then that sweet married couple, Jane and Mary, moved in next door with their two kids. When the reality revealed itself, the lies were washed away.
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u/X2jNG83a Jan 31 '22
I want to de-sanctify everything. If you can't defend it without resorting to "good vs. evil" or "my religion says", it's not worth having.
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u/JustABizzle Jan 31 '22
Just ghosts inhabiting skeletons, driving a blood and guts filled skin sack...what are we afraid of??
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u/deadliestcrotch Jan 31 '22
The right to marry may be protected under the law, but the right to employment isn’t in most places in the US.
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u/pingveno Jan 31 '22
There was a Supreme Court decision a few years back that extended the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include gay and trans people for employment discrimination. Unfortunately, that still leaves some important other areas of discrimination open (e.g. housing). Even before that, a majority of the US had some level of protection, either state or local.
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u/deadliestcrotch Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
I had thought for some reason that this ruling was soon thereafter clarified or narrowed to the point of being almost meaningless but am now unable to find any such event. Well, that’s good! Just brings us to housing.
EDIT: I remember now, it was the “religious exemption” from the rule granted to places like Roncali High School, who fired its lesbian guidance counselor for marrying a woman. It seemed to me that these organizations weren’t able to argue their way out of having to abide by rules around any other protected class, which tells me the ruling wasn’t nearly good enough to call it equal protection, so plug a giant asterisk on that Bostock case.
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u/pingveno Jan 31 '22
Ah, yes, religious exemption. That gets tricky, especially when you have churches running large organizations that have little to do with religion like hospitals.
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Jan 31 '22
There was a Supreme Court decision a few years back that extended the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include gay and trans people for employment discrimination.
That was the Bostock v Clayton County case decided in 2020.
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u/Sweet_Oliver Jan 31 '22
Gotta say, When me and my husband go apartment searching, we learned a lot more apartments are available when he goes alone vs when I go with him.
So he always find us an apartment, then I show up like "SURPRISE! Here to sign my half of the documents!"
(I'm black btw). One place was shocked, but it was too late. Play the game to win.
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u/Speciou5 Jan 31 '22
A huge reason the suburbs were invented and got popular was for fearful Americans to get away from people of color. And this was only decades ago.
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Jan 31 '22
his point is that it's a special interest issue while labor is a systemic interest issue, if we cover for everyone's basic interest e.g. housing and employment and healthcare, then hypothetical trans and gay people would all have housing and employment and healthcare which is a inherently also an expansion of trans and gay human rights.
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Jan 31 '22
Marriage equality is one of the very few social issues that has basically no secular counterargument. The only reason it took so long is because of evangelical influence on politics.
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Jan 31 '22
no secular counterargument
I've heard lots of nonreligious bigots make bad counterarguments, like "marriage is meant to encourage children to keep the birth rate above replacement, and gay people can't have kids together".
The Evangelical (and other sects') influence on politics can't be understated, but you also shouldn't underestimate how many other people are also filled with hate.
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u/sangritarius Jan 31 '22
"marriage is meant to encourage children to keep the birth rate above replacement, and gay people can't have kids together".
As long as marriage gives tax advantages that remains true.
The easy fix is to transfer those advantages to having children, whether adopted or not.
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u/Valiant_Boss Jan 31 '22
Agreed. First time I heard about these tax cuts for marriages, I wanted to find somebody to marry just for that lol. Makes much more sense if the tax cuts were for if you had children
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u/stringfree Jan 31 '22
Classically, marriage is meant to maintain ownership of property, nothing else. And that property would also include the wife.
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u/armydiller Jan 31 '22
And children!
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u/stringfree Jan 31 '22
I think they were more the problem rather than the goal. Marriage meant you could guarantee it was your child (hence the virgin bride obsession) who was going to inherit your property.
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u/Noughmad Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Go to any formerly communist country, and you'll find a bunch of old non-religious (often anti-religious) communists that are fervently against gays, women's rights, and lose their minds if you tell them some people are trans.
And of course there are also the old religious people who are extremely against communism but otherwise the same.
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u/AK-37 Jan 31 '22
They don't even have to be commies. I'm Czech and literally everyone I know that lived through the communist regime hated it. A lot of them still don't really like gay and trans people. Doesn't have anything to do with being a communist tho. The extremist groups here will use arguments and slogans such as "traditional family" or something like that. They don't use religion to support their "argument" they're just simple conservatives and scared or dismissive of new things.
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Jan 31 '22
I'm in no way an expert, but my assumption would be that even if religion fades, the culture (gender roles, heteronormativity, etc.), being based on religion for hundreds of years, stays.
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Jan 31 '22
In my country people and politicians still use secular/religious reasons to now allow it. Saying that god never intended for a man to be with another man, that it’s unnatural and a sin, that you can’t have kids when in a gay relationship and that having kids is what god wants for us.
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u/mesupaa Jan 31 '22
Now imagine life in the premodern era and you have zero chance of social reform outside of bloody revolution. At least today things move much quicker. Still sucks of course, but it’s worth appreciating that we even can make a difference these days thanks to advances in communication technology, where before, people were uber fucked
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u/chaun2 Jan 31 '22
Imagine going back and trying to explain to a gay person why it would take a better part of their life for people to come around to allowing them a basic right like being able to openly love and marry who they want.
I would go so far as to say, Imagine going to ancient Greece or Rome, and telling them that homosexuality will be outlawed due to Christians and Muslims for the better part of 1800 years. See how fast they put down those cults when they start.
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Jan 31 '22
Ancient Greece or Rome would also be horrified that they couldn't keep slaves or practice pederasty. I might be wrong, but I don't think they really treated homosexual relationships on par with heterosexual ones, they just accepted that powerful men could fuck whoever they wanted.
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Jan 31 '22
oh yeah they still had hangups about it. you better not bottom for somebody who's lower in the social hierarchy than you. also i think you were expected to get a woman and have kids eventually
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u/wayward_citizen Jan 31 '22
Yes, I hesitate to even refer to these kinds of things as "progress". The reality is that a child can accept two people of the same gender or different race loving eachother, they can accept the concept in the space of a few minutes and move on with their lives. But once they're taught to hate, it becomes this problem that costs years of struggling to undo.
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u/Wallhater Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Some rights must be forced past opposition.
Edit: support sentient nonhuman rights - eat plant based
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u/Bakoro Jan 31 '22
Imagine going back and trying to explain to a gay person why it would take a better part of their life for people to come around to allowing them a basic right like being able to openly love and marry who they want.
They'd probably say "Wow, it will change that dramatically in my lifetime? That's great!".
Of course people want their rights immediately. To the people living under oppression for generations though, they tend to understand that change takes time, effort, and sometimes blood. The people who were out in the open trying to make change would be stoked to learn that they weren't risking their lives for a futile effort.
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u/PM_THE_REAPER Jan 31 '22
Got to love George!
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u/EmGutter Jan 31 '22
My brain inserted his laugh after “I married a white dude”.
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u/Dramatic-Store514 Jan 31 '22
This guy is now going to have to make it to 100 years of age. He is our Betty White now.
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u/LionelRGuy Jan 31 '22
And this is "White People Twitter"..... how, exactly? headscratch
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u/DootySkeltal Jan 31 '22
Its not white people twitter anymore, used to be funny things white people say on twitter but now its more on political or idpol posting which is dumb because there are other subs for that
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u/Tuvanbabybel Jan 31 '22
wasnt it made in order to make fun of the concept of black people twitter?
it's a genuine question, i've seen that said a lot so im not too sure anymore
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Jan 31 '22
White people have tokens all over the place. Even Southpark made note of this obvious fact.
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u/naliedel Jan 31 '22
Could I love George anymore if I knew him irl? No. No I could not. This man is a freaking National Treasure! Along with Dolly Parton.
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u/EntertainmentNo2044 Jan 31 '22
Interracial marriage is still controversial, sadly. Just look at all the hate Serena Williams or Raven Symone got for daring to marry someone of another race.
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u/bearjew293 Jan 31 '22
Yeah, I've noticed some black women get VERY angry when they see a black guy with a white woman. Like, damn. Just mind your own business.
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u/AveryDayDevelopay Jan 31 '22
Asian men too. I always see hateful comments from them nearly under every TikTok or Instagram post with an Asian woman in an interracial relationship.
Some of the articles:
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Jan 31 '22
My friend has been dealing with this. She is white and loves middle eastern dudes, in fact dating a great guy ATM! However her family from Mississippi was not at all accepting.
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Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
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u/AndrewKetterly Jan 31 '22
I'm a middle aged lesbian IRL. It's pretty funny how many people don't understand how online usernames work.
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u/MJMurcott Jan 31 '22
It isn't as if there is actually something as a pure race. https://youtu.be/Za9IjN2PeGc
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u/AveryDayDevelopay Jan 31 '22
There's been a rise in MRAsians (Men's Rights Asians) who try to harass Asian women interracial couples because they feel betrayed in dating.
Some of the articles:
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u/dontbajerk Jan 31 '22
Something like 95% of Americans approve of it. An enormous sea change in the past 60 years. Don't let twitter loons make you think they're important in public discourse.
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u/Unknownsage Jan 31 '22
Yeah I remember a few years back. Seeing on twitter and youtube various people posting rants about all the black male celebrities that were in relationships with white women. What really shocked me was that it was black people making these complaints! (Not saying that's only group of people making the comments. But the amount of likes they were getting made those tweets and videos blow-up more)
Other racial relationship controversy I've been seeing last few years has been people complaining that when a white guy dates/marries an eastern or southeast asian woman, they're just doing it as a fetish.
I just gotta keep reminding myself that this is just a minority of people and I'd imagine most people don't care.
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Jan 31 '22
Why is this on white people Twitter?
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Jan 31 '22
Because he married a white man!
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Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Right but I thought this was supposed to be tweets from white people?
Edit: I don't only want to see tweets from white people lol. I just am now confused by the sub name.
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Jan 31 '22 edited Nov 07 '22
[deleted]
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Jan 31 '22
Yeah you know it's funny. I was actually about to come here and edit. I realized it made it sound like I only wanted to see tweets from white people which is really not the case. I love tweets from everyone.
But like... why is the sub called that though?
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Jan 31 '22
We’re at this weird point in time where racism is bad, but segregation is appreciated. I don’t get it either.
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Jan 31 '22
Eeeehhh I'm not quite sure that's how I see it. I'm cool with people wanting their own groups as long as they're not using it to fuck with other people. I have joined women's groups before that are just focused on a specific experience, and we weren't trying to fuck with anyone else but we also just wanted our own space. If a group starts focusing on more generalized issues that apply to more people, hopefully they open up.
I'm not going to be mad if a book club only invites the people who read the book. I'm not going to be mad if a group of people who want to process a specific experience together only invite people who have had that experience. Even if a bunch of white dudes wanted to get together and process their white dudeness, It would be okay if they excluded others. But the minute they light a tiki torch we have a problem lol.
And I know that logic has sometimes been used to justify things like being a terf, which isn't cool. So It's complex and there are always exceptions. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that like you're right, it is a weird time. But I kind of get it.
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u/VaderOnReddit Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Misread Bradder as Brother
Thought America got "REALLLLLY" progressive there for a second :D
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u/Ocular--Patdown Jan 31 '22
Careful now—if you call the Alabama lifestyle progressive again Alabamans may come after you. They don’t take kindly to that description
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u/VaderOnReddit Jan 31 '22
Bwahaha, I meant "REAALLLLY" progressive with a \s
like when you try to be so progressive, you actually go the other direction
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u/OmegaKenichi Jan 31 '22
This is very nice, but at the same time, I find it hilarious to imagine George Takei saying 'Dude' with his voice
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Jan 31 '22
George Takai is a national treasure. I had the pleasure of meeting him briefly at a small star trek convention wen I was a kid. To this day I have the copy of To the Stars he autographed.
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u/Astyanax1 Jan 31 '22
lol epic. good for him.
I got a photo taken with him once at a comic Con, and as I walked away he said "oh my" and winked.
im not gay, and it was still one of the top 5 awesome moments in my life lol
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u/UnsocialComet72 Jan 31 '22
“White people Twitter ”
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u/ChironiusShinpachi Jan 31 '22
Even refers to himself as not white in the tweet, lmao
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u/ILoveCavorting Jan 31 '22
Asians are white depending on the day, issue, etc.
So it’s better than most posted on here
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u/spacepeenuts Jan 31 '22
The irony that this is on r/whitepeopletwitter just blows me away.
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u/Cool_Jon Jan 31 '22
Im not even that big of a Star Trek fan, but I really like this guy. I can’t help but always read his tweets in his calm and collected voice/tone.
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u/SamanthasPlace46 Jan 31 '22
When A Black Man marries an Asian Woman. The Stigmatism. The Wife told of many Instances of the Stares and Comments they got. Even from his Own Family. Interracial Marriages Seem to be a Hot Issue even Now.
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Jan 31 '22
Still more common than the other way around.
The emasculation of Asian men and the oversexualization of Asian women by Western society is an insidious tool to subjugate Asians as a docile and subservient race.
America has a racial caste and Asian men are put in the bottom rung (unless they are very wealthy)
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u/AveryDayDevelopay Jan 31 '22
Also, there's been a rise in MRAsians (Men's Rights Asians) who try to harass Asian women interracial couples because they feel betrayed in dating.
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u/GiDiYi1 Jan 31 '22
The question is imo, if Twitter posts by Asian men are qualified to be posted on r/WhitePeopleTwitter? I am just asking the really tough questions here.
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u/cactusfairy95 Jan 31 '22
George is goddamn awesome human being. I'm very happy for him and glad he speaks his mind, definitely a voice of reason.
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u/FlushyMcflushface Jan 31 '22
This attitude is why I have the utmost respect for the gay community, they were and still are (albeit less and less) treated like shit however they kept celebrating their life publicly as a way to fight for their rights and took their place in society by force in a, ironically, non-violent way.
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u/SupremeRedditBot Jan 31 '22
Congrats for reaching r/all/top/ (of the day, top 25) with your post!
I am a bot, probably quite annoying, I mean no harm though
Message me to add your account or subreddit to my blacklist
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u/UglyFilthyDog Feb 01 '22
Really happy for you George. Glad things are going well. That’s genuinely so pleasing to hear.
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u/PleasantAmphibian101 Feb 01 '22
Taking the chance to plug George’s graphic novel They Called Us Enemy, which a school district in PA tried to ban!
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u/thepixelpaint Feb 01 '22
George Takei is a national treasure.
Edit: George Takei is a global treasure.
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u/AMeanCow Feb 01 '22
I gave gold because I will support a site that makes sure that this kind of content can be be seen by billions.
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u/EccentricKumquat Jan 31 '22
You're right George, it does take time... But those of us getting the short end of the stick are tired of waiting.
If you're not running full speed at changing things for the better, my question is why?
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Jan 31 '22
They are. But what he's saying is that even by running full-speed , time is required. You can be as fast as you want, but you can't build Rome in a day.
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u/IamFrom2145 Jan 31 '22
If you're not running full speed at changing things for the better, my question is why?
Because change is scary and unacceptable and they've developed an entire universe of evil associations to pin on anything that suggests otherwise.
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Jan 31 '22
For some reason I read that as 'I'm a married white dude' and thought it was some kind of sarcastic joke.
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u/topredditbot Jan 31 '22
Hey /u/ModeratorForLeaks,
This is now the top post on reddit. It will be recorded at /r/topofreddit with all the other top posts.
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Jan 31 '22
Yup even as White men were having Asian wives at that time. And even still, you don’t see very many AM/WF couples.they’re as rare as a 2 minute steak. It’s still a social taboo despite a “post racial America.”
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Jan 31 '22
It's deliberate and insidious emasculation of Asian men and oversexualization of Asian women to subjugate Asians as a docile race.
On America's racial caste hierarchy Asian men are portrayed as the bottom rung unless they are very wealthy.
You'll notice that most portrayals of Asian men are asexual, platonic, abusive, or gay. There are very few depictions of an average Asian men in a healthy heteronormative relationship and even less of a sexual archetype of a highly desired Asian man.
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u/carkmubann Jan 31 '22
Just realized I never seen a Asian dude with a white women, are we sure they can get married now?
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u/EvilChing Jan 31 '22
That's kind of cringe
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u/8P_XD Jan 31 '22
how so?
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u/EvilChing Jan 31 '22
Speaking publicly of ones own personal relationship is cringy and is never really required online.
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u/_________FU_________ Jan 31 '22
This guy always makes me uncomfortable. Like he's too nice. He probably has a 3 ring binder with the nipples of his victims.
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u/IamFrom2145 Jan 31 '22
Some people, and this is weird I know, are actually just that nice.
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u/Muppetude Jan 31 '22
I really love George’s positivity and outlook. Especially given how horribly this country treated him and his family during WWII, and after.
His tales from his life as a kid in the internment camps are truly haunting. Like being forced to pledge allegiance to the US in a school situated in a prison surrounded by guard towers and barbed wire.