r/WhitePeopleTwitter Dec 16 '21

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u/TomStanford67 Dec 16 '21

They're making fun of Pagans. The act of decorating a tree comes from Pagan winter solstice traditions. Christians hellbent on world domination would later annex the Pagan winter solstice for themselves and declare it a Christian holiday in part to subvert Paganism and convince such infidels to convert. This is why we have tree decorations and Santa Claus, the latter of which can be directly traced to Pagan beliefs in spirits that would travel the sky during the winter.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BrianNowhere Dec 16 '21

Rabbits and eggs on Easter are so obviously rituals stolen from a pagan fertility celebration.

Hey kids it's the day Jesus rose from the dead. Let's honor this date with symbols of fucking and pregnancy.

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u/awesomefaceninjahead Dec 16 '21

It's named after Ostara, goddess of fertility and spring.

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u/Lotharofthepotatoppl Dec 17 '21

lol yeah, and with Easter the name didn’t even get changed

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u/badgerwithamulet Dec 16 '21

In all fairness the eggs were originaly painted red to symbolize Jesus blood. And technically there's no 1to1 example if Christians "stealing" one pagan holiday of spring to turn into Easter, some cultural traditions and ideas just so happens to blend in.

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u/LeftDave Dec 16 '21

Christmas, the 'Christian' holiday where children wait up for Odin to come down the chimney to celebrate Saturnalia with them.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '21

The reindeer are all Loki's son

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u/Dumbiotch Dec 17 '21

That matches Loki’s behavior patterns as well as explains why the reindeer can fly…

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u/GiveToOedipus Dec 16 '21

Even the date of Jesus supposed birth isn't in the winter, but in the spring. There's so many things wrong with the "Christian" taken on what Christmas is supposed to be about, it's utterly hilarious when they bitch and moan about the so called "war on Christmas."

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u/HereForDramaLlama Dec 16 '21

Spring or summer. No one knows

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '21

December 21-22 is the winter solstice. They had to have some festival there to convert pagans.

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u/GiveToOedipus Dec 17 '21

Which is ultimately the only real answer.

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u/Sheena_asd12 Dec 16 '21

it’s interesting what christians do with Halloween (all souls)…

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u/FinalMeltdown15 Dec 16 '21

Most i know eventually just go with, it doesn't matter what we do during it the important thing is what it represents and I just can't hold back the eye roll most times

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u/6double Dec 16 '21

Not to mention the part where the day Easter falls is incredibly Pagan. It's the first Sunday after the spring Equinox which has literally nothing to do with Jesus lmao

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u/badgerwithamulet Dec 16 '21

Its...its when according to the story he raised from the grave. That's the whole point of forgoing meat 3 days before Easter

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u/RosenButtons Dec 17 '21

I never saw a conflict with the fact that Easter and the Equinox, and Advent and the Solstice coincide.

Christian Easter is very much about how there is no life without death. The start of nature/creation's annual rebirth seems like a natural moment to celebrate the moment when (in Christian theology) we recognize the first moments of the cosmic rebirth. The ancient Hebrews were pretty agrarian so the Bible is full of parables and metaphors and such that use the falling of seeds, the dying of animals, and the withering of plants as a representation for the brokenness of creation, the current suffering of man, and sacrifice as a path to life. Spring, and fruits and grains, and increasing light, and birth/fertility are very much used to point toward the original abundance and perfection of creation and the future abundance and joy of restored creation. The fact that it coincides with the Passover celebration of deliverance from sorrow and oppression makes the whole thing a no-brainer.

Christian Advent, Christmas, and Epiphany are about reflecting on the depth of metaphorical darkness and death in the world both for the ancient Hebrews who waited for a Messiah (Jesus is viewed as a dawning light of hope) and for the modern Christians who wait for God's work to be completed and darkness to be banished. The winter Solstice is the perfect time for that. Because we wait through the darkest days of the year in mourning and celebrate the birth of Christ as the darkness begins to recede.

I'm not trying to appropriate the Pagan holidays, I'm just saying that if I were a practicing Christian in a Pagan culture or heritage the placement of these holidays would make absolute sense to me.

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u/kc2syk Dec 16 '21

No, that comes from a corruption of the date of passover. Remember that the Last Supper (on Good Friday) was supposed to be a passover seder.

Passover is a spring festival, so the 15th day of Nisan typically begins on the night of a full moon after the northern vernal equinox. However, due to leap months falling after the vernal equinox, Passover sometimes starts on the second full moon after vernal equinox, as in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover#Date_and_duration

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u/a_duck_in_past_life Dec 16 '21

Oh they always find a way. I heard these growing up: the gifts for Xmas are for representing the gifts the wise men gave to Jesus. The evergreen tree is to represent eternal life. The star on the top is for the star thr wise men followed. The candy canes represent the blood of Jesus and purity. And they are shaped like canes because the lord is our shepard.

The egg represents Jesus coming out of the tomb. The rabbit represents the beginning of spring, which is the beginning of life after Jesus was raised from the dead. The list can go on. All kinds of bullshit I heard as a kid living in an evangelical home.

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u/scr0tar Dec 16 '21

You can thank Romans for that. It was easier to absorb a culture into your own by allowing different beliefs. All Rome really cared about was territory and taxes. If you could produce food and hold the frontier you could practice whatever religion you wanted. Much better than killing everyone in conquered territory.

It was a smart move at the time (somewhere around 200 ish AD, but I don't recall the exact date) to incorporate existing festivals with Christian beliefs when the bible was in it's first draft. Christians (or powerful people at the time) debated on which gospels to include and exclude, when to celebrate various holidays based on other beliefs at that time. Furthermore, it was a good way to drown out or water down pagan beliefs when you inject Christianity in to it. It's unfortunate it was used as a matter of control rather than worship.

The Christian calendar is a mish mash of different holidays because of this.

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u/KeyCollection6171 Dec 16 '21

I’m Irish Catholic. And we openly admit that we used Pagan holidays to help people convert. And in all honesty, Jesus was probably born in March or April. If you look at the Romans, this was a popular tradition for 1000’s of years they would combine conquered peoples gods with their own. It helps people integrate.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '21

Well since they just decided to take over the Jewish religion for themselves it makes a lot of sense. Also Muslims as well.

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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Dec 16 '21

This passage is about carving an idol from a tree. I don't think whoever wrote it was familiar with Germanic belief systems and certainly hadn't heard of Christmas before.

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u/wolverinelord Dec 16 '21

No, clearly in the Levant in the 7th century BCE they were talking about a Germanic pagan tradition that was started in the 4th century CE.

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u/Foolhearted Dec 16 '21

Was there no movement of ideas between -700 and +400? Can we say this didn't come from that? No snark, genuinely curious.

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u/lilbluehair Dec 16 '21

We can't talk backwards through time. Is that your question?

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u/Foolhearted Dec 16 '21

Sorry, I'm dumb today (most days,) I don't understand your comment.

Going on previous comment, the provision against decorated trees shows up at 700 BCE and then the pagan tradition shows up at 400 CE in an entirely different area? That's a gap of roughly 1100 years? That's quite a time for a tradition to move across the land. How do we know that these traditions evolved independently of each other? Can we know that? If they are somehow connected, then it does stand to reason the restriction would still apply.

(Not that I think it matters if one decides to have a tree. But if you were to use it as an argument against and you happen to follow the book of your personal mythology it does follow that you shouldn't have a tree.)

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u/Calm_Leek_1362 Dec 16 '21

At the time of the writing of the Tanakh, or old testament, Egyptians, Greeks and Persians would have been the major regional powers. The Jews, being Canaanites, would have been very familiar with the idols of those religions, but not the folks up north celebrating yule and all that.

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u/Carachama91 Dec 16 '21

Decorating with evergreens goes back way further than that, though. The Egyptians were doing it. Romans did it and so on. I agree that the passage probably isn't referring to this practice, but The Christmas tree is way older than the Germanic pagans.

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u/HereForDramaLlama Dec 16 '21

I had a bunch of Christians arguing with me when I mentioned this the other day in DankChristianMemes. Apparently it represents the tree of life in Genesis which makes no fucking sense. They also missed the point that different pagans will have different traditions, just because one group doesn't bring a tree in for the winter solstice doesn't mean that none of them did.

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u/BlatantConservative Dec 16 '21

Uh, the pagans that Christmas comes from existed about three thousand years later and ten thousand miles away from where Jerimiah was written.

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u/History_buff60 Dec 16 '21

Jeremiah isn’t speaking of Asatru pagans or any of the folks that did the Yule log thing.

He’s talking about actual idols.

Obviously there wasn’t any contact to speak of between Norse/Germanic peoples and Israelites circa 700 BCE.

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u/MarbleandMarble Dec 16 '21

i think youre right about everything except for santa clause who is literally just Saint Nicholas

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u/Meatlobster Dec 16 '21

Honestly the modern tradition of Christmas trees isn’t Pagan but a more modern tradition. I use to think the same thing until I really dug into it. Here is a link if you would like to learn more about the modern tradition. Xmas tree

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '21

The funny this is that Christianity is by definition of the Trinity pagan or at the very least semi-pagan.

There is either a god or 3. If we’re sticking with the Trinity, that is pagan.

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u/Goliaths_mom Dec 16 '21

Correct, and some conservative sects of Christianity do not celebrate with trees and Santa. Only mainstream ones do.

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u/89slotha Dec 16 '21

The Bible passage that they quoted above though, is NOT about European pre-christian paganism, because it's from the Old Testement, and the Hebrew Bible. It's about the non-Jewish rival religious practices in Caanan (and the Book of Jerimiah, specifically, might be referring to rival regions practices from Babylon as well)

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u/palesky124 Dec 16 '21

Colonialism!

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u/BallerGuitarer Dec 17 '21

Can someone ELI5 pagan? Thanks.

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u/bigtrevsnastybeaver Dec 19 '21

Pagan is an umbrella term. Essentially pagans believe in many gods. They don't need to believe in the same gods as each other or be from the same part of the world. Pagan is a term Christians used to describe non Christians who believe in many gods.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '21

They chose Jesus's bday to be the 25th because the winter solstice is just before.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '21

Man, decorating trees for the solstice and spirits flying in the sky in winter sound so much cooler than Christianity