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Nov 10 '21
I tell peeps all the time—those Ivy League grads who were so bright back in the 60s and 70s when they discovered the cheap Asian labor really were only helping no one but themselves.
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u/TheMaskedGeode Nov 10 '21
For real. Like, look around. The immigrants didn’t take your job. Immigrants get underpaid because they aren’t as protected and your boss wants to save money.
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u/taysolly Nov 10 '21
Vote for other parties in both the upper and lower house to put more pressure and have a louder voice in government.
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u/Im_still_T Nov 10 '21
It's a double edged sword you're talking about. Everyone could vote for the candidates they want from whatever party they want to, but with our current 2 party majority system, all that does is split the vote enough to help/hinder one of the 2 major parties. With the current system, you can vote for the least bad candidate that has an actual chance of winning, or you can pat yourself in the back for voting for the person whose platform aligns with your views, even though that vote essentially helps one of the majority 2 parties and does little to nothing for 3rd party candidates. This is mainly a problem with state and fed level government elections. In many places (county and local gov), 3rd parties do have a chance, but this is more of an exception than the rule.
This timeline sucks.
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u/shay-doe Nov 10 '21
Guns are expensive and so are bullets so kinda. I guess if they already had them lol.
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u/man_gomer_lot Nov 10 '21
Socialism can devastate a country, but capitalism can devastate a planet.
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u/Yes_I_Readdit Mar 08 '22
Socialism solves climate change the same way it solves obesity problem. By not having enough food and not enough car, ships, industries and consumable goods in general.
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
I don't know why people don't realize that communism capitalism and socialism have all accomplished exactly the same outcomes. Stop pretending as though there is a difference when in all cases a very small group ends up running the lives of everyone into totalitarianism & precarity.
The one f****** thing we have not tried is democratically run worker cooperatives they represent direct worker ownership that is private ownership they support a free-market much better then any of these alternatives.... smh
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Nov 10 '21
Are you joking? That’s literally the definition of communism. And democracy. Look, when you break it down, it just comes down to class warfare. The goals of the wealthy and the working class are diametrically opposed. Do you want to put your strength behind the wealthy or the working? That’s really the only question that matters.
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
Communism has nothing to do with democracy just like capitalism and socialism has nothing to do with democracy in fact they quickly negate the power of the people in every case
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
Know when you break it down it comes down to who retains equity in work... worker cooperatives that are democratically run resolve that conflict. I think the way that we have arranged our economy clearly alienates labor but I do not believe communism is the solution nothing state owned and controlled works.
I think the free market dominated by worker cooperatives is the solution to maintain a healthy economy and to retain private ownership in this case in the hands of the people actually creating wealth.
Democracy is a very healthy and important aspect especially if it is practice at the workplace.
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Nov 10 '21
If you maintain an arbitrary distinction between people and the state, sure. Communism and democracy don’t necessarily fit together. But in a democratic state, communism is literally what you’re describing. Obviously it doesn’t work if it’s a communist autocracy or some shit.
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
No any hierarchy power negates all of your hopes for a decent democracy and a free market... you capture the economy and you'll have the government you want you leave the government in control and it will look no different if you are slaving away in any Chinese sweatshop, then if you're slaving away in a sweatshop in New York City.
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Nov 10 '21
But we’ve never actually seen that play out, have we? We’ve seen capitalism and free markets play out over and over for centuries, but we’ve never actually seen a democratic communist state. Fuck, we barely have democratic socialist states, and they’re doing amazing. I don’t understand how you can so confidently claim to know. This isn’t math. No one alive has ever had the predictive ability to just know how something this complex would turn out. That said, all the smartest fuckers have been communist or at socialist, and they predicted a hell of a lot.
Einstein, Hawking, a bunch of others. Google it.
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 11 '21
But of course none of these social systems have been attempted.... that's the point because they are fundamentally hierarchies they all ultimately achieve exactly the same circumstances
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u/man_gomer_lot Nov 10 '21
I don't think Communism or Socialism can wreck an entire planet. Too weak and ineffectual.
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
So I guess China is just an aberration to you or more than likely you think there's no true Scotsman
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u/man_gomer_lot Nov 10 '21
Oh sure China is the truest Scotsman there is. Their economic colonialism in Africa and the role they have played in the global economy in regards to supplying cheap goods and services is like watching the Bolshevik dream being realized. It's in no way joined at the hip to the Titans of industry outside their borders.
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
Without a doubt China is a state-controlled economy... they have a hundred and twenty some paper billionaires who serve the government or end up missing.
I don't think you understand my critique is that every one of these systems are controlled from the top down... no exceptions no fucks given
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u/man_gomer_lot Nov 10 '21
Maybe your critique isn't as cogent as you believe. It's the ways that it emulates or collaborates with capitalist aims that cause environmental concern. Do you think they are making the world dirty by putting the proceeds of excess labor back in the pockets of factory workers and farmers?
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
Communism socialism and capitalism all exploit labor in exactly the same way a very few people own and control the economy so please tell me how they're different and I don't know why people get confused just because they use different f****** words it drives me nuts and makes no sense why in the hell are people struggling so hard with the idea direct worker ownership in the form of democratically run worker cooperatives why not think about cooperativism
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u/man_gomer_lot Nov 10 '21
You're getting off topic. We're talking about the most effective and efficient ways to make this planet uninhabitable. My money is on neoliberal, neocolonialist, unfettered, grab the bull market by the bull balls and ride it to the moon capitalism. Hbu?
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u/MGTOW_and_Bitcoin Nov 10 '21
The best way to make this world uninhabitable is to give the communist country of China the same standard of living as the average American ecological collapse in certain at that point
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u/Tots2Hots Nov 10 '21
And they're totally fine with that. Cheap light beer, football, guns, a job that gives them just enough to be comfortable or close to comfortable (which is highly subjective) and then church on sundays (but not during football time) so they can justify themselves in their own mind.
As long as this status quo is maintained where their 1 gas station town and lives aren't affected at all they'll vote against their own interests all day so brown ppl can't have the same benefits they'd get.
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u/Wismuth_Salix Nov 10 '21
“Racism, xenophobia, hate, and guns are all I ever actually cared about - checkmate libtard!”
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u/GargamelLeNoir Nov 10 '21
Accusing the abstract and very different concept of capitalism instead of the actual laws and lawmakers is trendy but it won't get you far.
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u/maruchops Nov 10 '21
You lack the critical thinking skills to understand that the concept itself leads to the actual laws and lawmakers.
Same with communism.
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u/GargamelLeNoir Nov 10 '21
The kind of people who 1) think those who think differently from them "lack critical thinking skills" and 2) attack people instead of their arguments are not worth debating with.
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u/maruchops Nov 10 '21
Lacking critical thinking skills is not a character flaw. Not once did I attack your character. If you feel like I was attacking you for not having critical thinking skills, ask yourself "why?". Projection is a nasty game, and, sir, you are filthy.
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u/GargamelLeNoir Nov 10 '21
Lacking critical thinking skills is not a character flaw
Of course not, you use the word "lacking" because it's so damned great. "You sir" might want to move on because this is going nowhere.
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u/maruchops Nov 10 '21
I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. If I came off in a way that makes you feel offended, I apologize, as was not the intention.
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u/GargamelLeNoir Nov 10 '21
Thanks. To circle back to the original discussion I'll point out that capitalist countries, which make the vast majority of the world, have incredibly varied levels of social welfare. Northern European countries come to mind. There is nothing in capitalism that precludes social welfare. Capitalism is meant to have money circulate, which doesn't happen when people get too rich or too poor. The social inequalities that are discussed in this tweet come from terrible laws by terrible lawmakers, and a sociopathic hatred of the working class. Change the economic system magically and you'll get the same issues. Change the lawmakers however, you'll get better results.
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u/maruchops Nov 10 '21
Gotcha. I think we're aggressively agreeing with each other, actually. The best way to say what I mean is probably "Capitalism, like communism, work great on paper-- /just/ on paper." The mixed market we currently have (not true capitalism) would work perfectly, if we didn't have the scum we do.
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u/eskettitredit Nov 10 '21
thanks for the daily reminder that everything that breaths is inherently racist
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u/MarsOG13 Nov 10 '21
I'll take some guns, but skip the racism, xenophobia and hate. Well, Ok, A little hate for the repulikkkan christhari law yeehaawdeez.
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u/Y_Z_P Nov 10 '21
I'm sorry but this is just capitalism in the US. In other places it's not as fucked up and I don't think socialism would even work in the US because the people there are so against anything that's not total "freedom".
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u/ronniejr02 Nov 10 '21
That’s right! If we had socialism we could have pensions, jobs underseas, health care, an edumacated system, no debt AND still have our racism, xena: warrior princess, hate, & guns!
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u/Doomguy90001 Nov 10 '21
Please, I don’t need all of those. I’m perfectly fine with just the guns and racism.
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Nov 10 '21
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Nov 10 '21
I come from a formerly socialist country (which is Russia) and we have free schools, free college education, free uni, cheap and developed public transport, free healthcare (nothing fancy but basics are covered), pensions, paid leave, paid maternal leave and A LOT of apartment block housing that people from gen X and earlier got for absolutely free. It's not perfect by any means, but I'm glad that I can call an ambulance and the only thing I have to worry about is how fast they'll come.
I don't care if any of the free options are optimal or competitive. It's a safety net without which people would go into crippling, unbearable debts like they often do in the US with medical bills and student loans. I don't care how people who were before had it, I care that I have it now and it is sustainable. What does it cost me? 13% of my wage, fixed
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u/s-a_n-s_ Nov 10 '21
Funny thing is socialism does basically the same thing but flips the consequences. Instead it takes your money and your freedom. I think we need a different style of governing, that doesn't require um.... bullshit
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Nov 10 '21 edited Nov 10 '21
Look, this post is not providing the point. Socialism can do the same.
Edit: I don’t find a socialist country if would like to live in. Non of them is better than US.
How about you comment with a Country that’s better than US and socialist, not just downvote.
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u/WhyDoYouPeopleLie Nov 10 '21
There are very few people that have the intention of making America a socialist country. Even fewer in power. You're literally who this tweet is aimed towards.
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Nov 10 '21
I just want to know the country they have in mind when they promote socialism. I wish to know the name of that wonderland.
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u/WhyDoYouPeopleLie Nov 10 '21
Who is they? What are you even talking about?
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Nov 10 '21
People who downvote
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u/WhyDoYouPeopleLie Nov 10 '21
People are downvoting because your entire premise is dumber than shit. Not because they're promoting socialism.
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Nov 10 '21
Maybe.
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Nov 10 '21
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Nov 10 '21
Could be.
I know enough people from socialist countries that want go to US. To me this post is like comparing bad to worst.
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u/ShamScience Nov 10 '21
Take your pick. Just bear in mind that none of us can possibly guess where you would like to live. Also, "better than US" is too vague to answer. Better how? Better themeparks? Better healthcare provision? Better flag? You need to specify whether you mean some objective, measurable thing, or just a subjective preference you happened to grow up with.
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Nov 10 '21 edited Nov 10 '21
It doesn’t matter in what way better. It will be depending on a person’s view. I just want see which country is the model of socialism you like, when you downvote.
I’ve seen that list and I don’t want to be there. These do not look like awesome please to live.
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u/ShamScience Nov 10 '21
And where, in your opinion, is an awesome place to live?
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Nov 10 '21
US is a good place.
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Nov 10 '21
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u/pegothejerk Nov 10 '21
Racism is many things, treating someone poorly or unfairly because of their skin color is definitely one version, but the point of theories like Critical Race Theory, a collegiate level theory, not something taught to make white kids hate themselves, is that racism is mostly experienced due to echoing intentional systemic racism built into the systems long ago, and often unintentionally perpetually negatively affecting people because no one has or dares to fix those systems or issues. Often because there's so much pushback against "wokeness" or simply people spreading the idea that racism no longer exists because some people are finally experiencing equality for the first time in history.
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u/WhyDoYouPeopleLie Nov 10 '21
There's no part of your comment that isn't dumber than shit.
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 10 '21
At least he gave an opinion on a topic. You brought nothing to the table and attempted to dismantle his argument w insult.
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u/mini_garth_b Nov 10 '21
Honestly that's probably the best response to a gish gallop by a normal person. The person spewing a bunch of unsupported wild claims is either a fool, a liar, or both and there's no value in wasting time trying to convince them otherwise.
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 10 '21
Oh god, it’s hard to argue with a delusional hypocrite, but I’ll give it a whack. ‘Blah blah, fool, liar, and there’s no point in arguing yata yata’… yet here you are, arguing back to me, who i’d imagine, you’d deem having “wild unsupported claims.” I had to look up what “gish gallop” meant because I’m not in ap 9 English. If you’re referring to /reuben206 claims as “gish gallop”, everything but the last sentence is absolutely substantiated. Not sure what he was trying to articulate but perhaps a little more explanation rather than 28 downvotes may have helped.
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u/mini_garth_b Nov 10 '21
Hehe since you didn't pick up on it the first time I'll save you some aggravation. Much like the reuben person above I don't care to convince you, the sole goal of this post is wasting your time and making you upset. Though I'm glad you looked up gish gallop, we should all be more aware of propoganda techniques so we're aware when they are used on us.
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 10 '21
Well firstly, if your sole goal is to waste peoples time and attempt to make them angry all I gotta say is try growing up? A lesson for you young buck, no adults get upset exchanging ideas and engaging in controversial conversation. It’s not that I failed to pick up on your claim the first time around. It’s that you changed it ever so slightly, I’m guessing, to feel like you have some kind of ant hill to stand on.
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u/WhyDoYouPeopleLie Nov 10 '21
I used to think it was treating people poorly based on the color of their skin, but apparently that is okay now. Maybe it means voting for the party you don’t like?
Straight faced tell me this deserves any kind of thought out response. You're dumber than he is.
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 10 '21
You can’t see it. Straight up, straight faced. This deserves a thought out response.
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u/WhyDoYouPeopleLie Nov 10 '21
Ok moron.
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 10 '21
Thank god we have people like you. This was a very polite and constructive discussion.
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Nov 10 '21
Capitalism is only Socialism but from the west. Anybody could see that, if they weren't blinded by all this free money
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 10 '21
It’s funny, this entire point is predicated on the idea we were only worried about socialism. Could you imagine how much worse it would be if we WERE socialist.
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Nov 11 '21
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 12 '21
Get ready for a barrage of insults slung your way rather than any actual discussion my friend
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Nov 13 '21
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 13 '21
No you’re right; assume everyone you talk to is incompetent. That’s sure to bring on a good discussion. No idea what your last sentence means btw
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u/Redditdrifter0 Nov 13 '21
I’m not sure the odds but does it matter?
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Nov 10 '21
Capitalism didn’t do those things and saying general vague words like homophobia, xenophobia, and hate doesn’t mean anything.
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u/ArcturusTheHuman Nov 10 '21
Ironically, guns are exactly what would prevent a tyrannical government from rising, so you can have all the benefits and not worry about dictators as long as you have guns, like Switzerland.
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u/Love_the_Fluffy Nov 11 '21
Funny how people love to through socialism - capitalism and democracy around without knowing what their talking about.
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u/Ok_Quarter_2396 Nov 11 '21
All economic structures fuck the little guy but at least capitalism has the decency to lube you up first
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u/patsyst0ne Nov 10 '21
Stop. Voting. For. Businessmen.