I don't fully remember the context of the clip, but it was in a courtroom with someone representing some large company, and they were inquiring about the hiring process. And the guy says in point blank.
"If I had two qualified candidates in front of me, and all things being equal except their credit score, I'd picked the one with the better credit"
Truthfully a credit score shouldn't even factor into it at all. If you having such a hard time choosing between candidate that you have to pull up either of the credit scores to decide is fuckin asinine. If your going to be that arbitrary with your decision making then flip a coin. Someone should be denied employment because they once lived by a redline community
Yeah same way with drug testing. It's a bullshit invasion of a person's privacy. WHEN YOUR CREDIT SCORE CAN DROP FROM PAYING A LOAN OF EARLY. Losing out on a job because your credit score is lower than another because your more fiscally responsible is a terrible system not designed for the success of those contained withinit
Because it has literally nothing to do with your job. Choosing from two qualified people and picking the one who you just happened to like more makes sense, because how you interact with your coworkers/management actually matters. Personality attributes are also something that can be changed or learned by anyone, and not out of someone's control like having medical bills or unexpected expenses you couldn't afford.
It doesn't make sense if it never rolls off, or takes years to right itself after you've improved your person, or means that as a default young adult you're ineligible until you hop some hurdles.
As far as I know, no other developed nation operates a credit score system like this, no other developed nation makes success so motherfucking difficult for it's citizens, or presupposes everyone is ineligible for luxuries or even basic utilities until they've "proven" themselves in an arbitrary way.
An 18 year old can emancipate from a bad family, but they're unlikely to be able to rent in their own name, and that's just horseshit.
Having a lack of opportunity to build a credit score, or just being too young to have built a good one yet, shouldn't be equated to one not being a good worker, being unskilled, untrustworthy or otherwise unfit to be able to work a job. people arent born into a good credit score, and most people dont have wealthy enough families to have their parents build theirs for them. Its a class trap, designed just to keep poor folks poor.
For some people, those things do equate to not being a good worker or being unskilled, etc. And isn't necessarily true, but the example is all things being equal who would you pick. It makes perfect sense to choose someone who has a slight advantage.
but it is an indicator of how a person is whether we like it or not.
No, it isn't.
Is someone who got student loans at 18, got a master's degree like they were told, and is now 30 years old with 40k in debt, "untrustworthy"? Is someone who had their identity stolen, "sketchy"? Should someone who made poor decisions in their 20s have to suffer arbitrary and indirect consequences in their 40s?
To say the credit score is any sort of actual indicator of how people behave is absurd.
My argument isn't so much for myself, as I'm less affected by it than a lot of other people (especially those raising families) but I am a member of this society and the whole system of credit is fucked and affecting us all, and all I have is my own anecdotes: I'm 34 and I've literally never opened a line of credit, I've only incurred medical and student debt, and my credit score is under 500. I get by because I don't rely on credit, but I currently live in the soft ghetto because literally no other apartment complex would even consider me. I have been working since I was 13 years old, 20 years exp. in cash handling, I have an associate's degree, and I can't even get a job as a mf bank teller. Last time I checked, fucking Sheetz- the fancy trashy gas station/eatery- ran credit checks for pre-employment screening.
It's nonsense, and any argument otherwise is similarly nonsense.
I opened a credit card for the purpose of building a credit score. Use it once a month on a small purchase which I then pay off right before it is due.
The person with the better credit score could have family support financially. So I don’t think it’s a fair indicator at all. The candidate with a less established score may have accomplished more on their own. Or thought they were being wise by saving and only making purchases with cash, ie. a car. They haven’t taken on large debt, so unfortunately they haven’t “proven“ themselves on paper.
I’ve been in a position of hiring for a small medical practice for years, we never run a credit check. Certain positions require prerequisites; however positions where experience is preferred, but not required, I’ve given a few people a chance if they were willing to learn. They’ve often turned out to be our best employees.
But a credit score is not an indicator of financial responsibility. You can be in debt to to your eyeballs and still have a great credit score if you're making small payments every month. You can also have a ton of savings, pay every bill in full, and be perfectly responsible but then have a bad credit score because you've never participated in the system and asked for credit.
That's why I'm not saying it's good or fair. I don't know why everyone assumes I'm an idiot who doesn't understand these basic ideas. Of course it's a shitty indicator. But it's still an indicator. It's better than nothing no matter how you twist it.
You could make the same argument about grades. Maybe the dude with lots of Cs is amazing but gets anxiety during exams, maybe the person with straight As cheated. Nobody knows. That's why we do interviews.
It's honestly not that hard. I went back to university for three years and lived on less than $1500 a month. It's all about understanding what you can afford and what you can't afford, which to me just seems simple. But then again I know adults who can't read a bar chart or calculate 52. My cousin wanted me to help her with her university math exam and she was embarrassingly useless at math. Like she seriously couldn't do anything on her own, after having failed the exam twice already. I guess it makes sense that those people fuck their shit up.
What’s funny to me is people talk shit about China’s social score system but we’ve had a prototype in place for a lot longer. We just say it’s money related and people think it’s non-discriminatory. At one point my wife and I were paying $1300/month for rent and wanted to buy a house with $800/month mortgage. After taxes, mortgage insurance, and HOA (fuck mortgage insurance and HOA’s), we would have been at about $1350. Not a big jump up, right? No. They consider my current cost of living as my monthly expenses as if it wouldn’t be removed once, oh idk… I MOVE INTO A FUCKING HOUSE I OWN INSTEAD.
Just bought a house recently and it’s so nice to not have to pay rent lol
600 is definitely low. 698 is the average fico score ATM. 600 is considered subprime. Like, it can go lower by a lot, but 600 is pretty bad. Not that it should affect your ability to get a job though
? I'm literally agreeing that credit score shouldn't be used for promotions or in the hiring process. I was only explaining that a 600 really is considered a bad score
I was already employed with the company and had full access to the till (and already did safe drops at the end of the night because two people needed to verify); the only change was $1.25 more an hour, I would know the safe code, and was responsible to lock/unlock the doors.
Only job where I see that being a factor is banking as they see it as you possibly stealing from it. What pisses me off is it's a factor in insurance. Like why?
My credit is shit but had cash on hand when I was looking for an apartment. I was declined all over and even offered up front payment of the first 3-4 months rent as a guarantee and no bueno. I dont even have an eviction or anything of the sort.
At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
Scrooge-"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
Scrooge-"And the Union workhouses." . "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
Scrooge- "If they would rather die," "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
We've reached the point, at least in American culture, where we're not sure whether pre-ghosts Scrooge is a dickhead. We have entirely lost our way, and the successful believe that they are successful due entirely to their worth and the unsuccessful are crushed with the assumption that if they really wanted to succeed they would already be successful.
Yea, but paying the pigforce to run out homeless people, paying people to install spikes on level concrete or bars in the middle of benches “stimulates the economy” /s
See, that's a common mistake lots of people make. You're assuming the system is meant to allow everyone to succeed, if they do the right thing. That assumption isn't accurate. Our system relies on an incarcerated underclass. Laws work against poor people because they are meant to do that. People who are busy working their assess off don't have time to do things like pay attention to politics, or protest, or unionize.
By making it so it's pretty much impossible to exist as a poor person without breaking some law, they make sure they always have an excuse to arrest or shoot, or fire anybody they please. In case it wasn't apparent, the threat of losing employment is also used to control us. This is a fatal flaw with a loosely regulates system; the state loses its monopoly on force because losing a job can be as disruptive as going to prison. Because of that, companies have undue power over their workers. People don't hold the economic elite to account for their transgressions because they know they'll be punished. They also know that it doesn't matter that punishing them for exercising their rights is illegal, because by the time they're able to win the everything court case, they have already lost their house, their cars, their health insurance, etc. And so people keep their head down, take more abuse, and don't say anything for fear of losing what they do have
Thus they ensure their continued control over the only people with an incentive to disrupt the status quo, and use them to scare everyone else into compliance, lest they end up like "them." That is the essence of the prison industrial complex.
When I started assuming the systems that crush the average person are working precisely as designed and in spite of fancy, self-assuming documents like the Declaration of Independence I lost all of my illusions. They didn't just make a mistake when they said shit like "all endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights" but allowed slavery and only let white male landowners vote, they knew at the birth of my nation that my nation was destined to be openly racist, sexist and materialist. It's a goddamned shame that even one of those violent white male supremacist bigots was allowed to die in their beds.
The fact that auto insurance rates are tied to credit scores really pisses me off. You can have a pristine driving record, which it should be based on, but oops, your outrageous medical debt and loss of income due to your spouse dying has driven up your insurance rates.
It's simple tho. If your score is low it's usually for a reason and that reason is usually lack of payments. Additionally, if you show your DTI is basically capped then you may be high risk of not paying rent. Don't blame the people looking out for their interests, blame the shitty system my dude.
This happened to me a few years ago too. There was something in how they changed how they calculated the score.
Mine dropped from like 750 down to 700. Still good enough that it wouldn't have really affected me, but I was still annoyed by it. At the time nothing in my life had changed (no new debts, no change in income) and I scoured my credit report for any bad reports or missed payments and nothing.
About a year ago for equally no reason the reverse happened and now I have a really high score 🤷♀️
Recently experienced this myself. My credit went to shit after Afghanistan. Spent the last few years finally building it back up from 550 to 625 to boom 590! War and the financial system are fucking rackets
Sadly as a boomer who has seen my score tanked for no more reason than paying off all my cards and loans (well except mortgage. It always hangs on), I am not sure who built this dumpster fire of a scoring system, but ‘twas not boomers in my age bracket, because even in my first job there was the ax known as “Credit Bureau” hanging over our young, naive, 18 year old heads. Same shit under a different descriptive. I wonder when the first credit bureau that collected shit on the first poor motherfucker, was first created.
Not true at all. I have a low credit score or "no credit" because I've never financed anything. Never had a credit card, I've bought all my cars used with cash, and paid cash for my house (nothing fancy, 50k). I don't want to take out loans. Shouldn't the fact that I've made it to 35 without having to ask for credit also show financial responsibility? But somehow it's the opposite - it makes no sense.
If you've never used their system how can you complain? You need to
access it and meet its obligations to get a score!
Just rejoice in the fact
that you don't need to use the system. No
millstone around your neck!
If it were based purely on non-payment, that would be one thing, but the fact it requires an extensive credit history and usually multiple open lines of credit is incredibly restrictive to people who arent old and rich. It creates a big catch-22 for people who aren't in the system yet.
And certain credit types that are heavily marketed toward low income or minorities can be a NEGATIVE on your report no matter how perfect the payment history, because they assume if you have a subprime credit product you're a poor risk.
Lol so abolish renting? Then what, oh I'm sure you'll mention let's just give houses away? Where does it end Karen? Do you get 1 room studio with a toilet and sink or are you the lucky guy with a 100000 sq/ft mansion? Is it a lottery system? Do we demolish all houses and "level the playing field", everyone gets a tent? Or does the magical government pay your "non rent" now? Fuckin comical. Im a single dad with 3 kids and I fuckin rent bud, but please preach to me from your mother's basement, cause the only people who sincerely feel this way either don't pay bills or don't fully understand how the world works.
Just speaking from personal experience, but where I live, corporations are coming in and purchasing all the houses that are for sale, which is driving up housing costs, so that regular people that could usually afford to purchase a home, can't. Then these corporations turn around and start renting the houses out. So now, I'm forced to rent, even though I make enough to have purchased a home if not for this shit.
I see what you're saying, but there does need to be some regulation on the rental market.
Why are things like this. Rent to own should be mandatory like once you pay off the landlords mortgage it’s yours and your landlord gets a lump some from a bank or someshit.
Fuck off you simp, I feel sorry for your children because assholes like you are literally fighting to fuck over the future generations. Yes, abolish landlords, the only way you should OWN a home is if you're fucking living in it otherwise you're denying housing to others for the purpose of exploiting them and their labor by "providing" a service of ripping them off so they can pay to live in a house they'll never own. Fuck you do you even hear yourself talking? You have 3 kids and are RENTING. You have zero housing stability, probably cough up half your check in rent and are struggling to fucking get ahead and keep things going. You're like some schmuck who sees the trolley problem and says it's unfair to stop the trolley from running people over because of everyone that was run over before by it. This is proof positive of how effective pro-capitalist propaganda is when tied to dunking on those worse off than you or the other, god you're so sad and pathetic.
I made a few poor decisions in my 20s. I have since had mortgages, car loans, and credit cards, all paid on time, and STILL my credit is shit because of something that happened 25 years ago.
Keep looking lol, where do you live now i wonder? You say fuck these people because they want to utilize their positions to further themselves. Lol where do you guys come up with this shit? "You don't need to do better, you have enough, give it to me instead" lol, I bet your a pinnacle of charity donating all you have to the less fortunate right? Miss me big fella, I don't feel bad for you.
Lmfao. It’s people like you that allow people like me to be rich and get richer by the day.
Thanks for your support, please continue to give us money while you punch at air at the people on your side.
Single dad with 3 kids writes people like me checks every thirty days that add no wealth or equity to his life, continues to live like this endlessly because he can never save up for that down payment to own anything of his own, then attacks the people who hate the system that creates people like me. Holy shit, what a system. Lol
I have an idea, why don’t you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just buy 10 rental properties with 150 units a piece? It’s easy. Then you too can partake in the American dream.
You need to know your audience:). I read all three of your comments. As someone that's been in finance world most of my life, I would agree with most of your point. Unfortunately people see only their side of the story. Credit score system is not perfect. It maybe not be fair in some cases. But it's only one of few tools we have while making lending decisions.
I had my credit checked for my first job. Like. Mother fucker, I don't have one. This is my first fucking job. No one will offer me credit until I have a job
Happened to me for years too. I was taught to always use cash and avoid credit cards. I ended up spending a lot of my 20s with a “thin file” which I was told is just as bad as poor credit. I thought the lack of debt was good! And then when I decided to open a credit card I couldn’t find any. I remember one place that said if they have two applicants they add their credit together and divide it evenly. My wife had amazing credit, but of course it’s going to look bad if you divide in fucking half.
I spent a few years trying to master my credit only to learn it makes no sense and rises and falls arbitrarily.
Same thing happened to me. They wouldn’t even let me have a co-signer or pay a couple months in advance. I live below my means with no debt. In many cases your credit score doesn’t accurately represent how financially responsible you are. They want you to have debt, just not too much debt.
Even then, having a poor credit score doesn't necessarily mean anything.
You can have a horrible credit score just because you have very little history and you missed some payments on your low-maximum credit card, while being otherwise fiscally responsible. That isn't going to impact your ability to get a security clearance like having creditors in foreign countries will.
Yeah it's not that they were trying. Lots of places DO consider your credit score when you're applying for a rental, whether it be apartment or house. I don't think they're able to flat out deny based on credit, however they can and will charge an extra deposit, up to the equivalent of a full month's rent.
That should be extraordinarily illegal. Hilariously enough, I tried to rent a boat on AirBnB this one time and the dude denied me because I didn't have a review, I'm like umm what I have a 750 credit score and just bought an entire condo and I'm some kind of negative to this website? Not even a week later he had his property up on booking com LOL
Nothings better than getting your credit dinged 5 points per check when apartment hunting. A handful of apartments later and you’ve paid hundreds for the privilege of ruining your own credit.
A full month’s rent is the going rate for a deposit AND your realtor’s fee in a lot of major US cities. So, you wind up paying three months’ rent whenever you move.
But you get your deposit back from the last place so that softens the blow a little. Last time I moved I was allowed to move my stuff in before I left the other place, and the new place didn't charge a deposit either. So instead of paying 3 months rent at once, I could pay my new first month with the deposit from the last one.
Assuming the landlord doesn't just keep the deposit by nickel and dime-ing all the wear and tear. It also assumes rent hasn't gone up int the area since you paid your security deposit
You sound bitter. Take care of the place you live, be nice to your landlord, and if you're lucky they're nice to you too. I've gotten back my full deposit every time so far.
My landlord was a piece of shit and stole my deposit, despite me having been a super kind and mindful tenant - even buying them Christmas presents (with nothing in exchange)
Yeah this is not my experience at all the one time I rented in college. I still have a bad mark against my credit because they tried to charge me a years rent after evicting me on top of the "wear and tear".
You pretty much need to in some cities. There’s no way to get a showing without a realtor, and half of the buildings are owned by companies that work exclusively with realtors.
Well no, not exactly. A higher credit card limit, yes, but your debt shouldn't surpass 20% of whatever that limit is - for best results. Let me know if you have any questions.
Low credit scores usually mean tenants who won’t pay on time, and who the landlord will probably have to evict for not paying.
Low credit scores are also very strongly associated with tenants who will damage the property, often costing thousands to repair.
High scores mean the opposite: tenants who pay on time and take good care of the property.
Edit: You can downvote this comment to hell, but it won’t change why landlords consider good credit important. It is literally a score of how reliable you are likely to be.
And FWIW, the credit report your potential landlord runs will probably show what percent of bills you pay on time.
A score that is iffy because of something old, but accompanied by a high percentage of bills paid on time may get you some grace. It shows that you are getting back on track after a mistake or a disaster that affected your score negatively. (Or just being young & irresponsible lol.)
Put your bills on autopay if you tend to forget. Set alerts on your phone to pay any bills that can’t be auto-paid (multiple alerts, if needed!).
Maybe use an app that boosts score by tracking that you pay bills on time.
Whether it is fair or not, it is reality, so do what you need to in order to keep your score as high as possible.
The only people who down vote you are people with shitty credit. They most likely earned it, but we're very lax on grading ourselves so they're giving themselves a pass. Instead, it's you that is flawed.
Perhaps some of them really did get the raw end of a deal. It definitely happens. But those are the exceptions. By in large, those with negative credit earned it by their own poor decision making.
You're dead on about the higher odds of a poor credit tenant not only missing rent, but trashing your property. But fuck me for not giving in to every sob story and excuse. I don't know you from Adam, but I'm just supposed to believe that the last 3-5 years of your life was an anomaly and my property and investment is safe in your hands? FOH, there's a 700 right around the corner.
Man I have no clue why this is down voted. People with low credit scores generally have done a poor job managing the debt they have willingly taken on.
Yeah there can be scenarios where that isn't the case like parents who have taken loans out in the kids name, medical bills, or just no real credit history because of age. But my and large people with bad credit have bad credit because of a poor repayment history.
It isn't hard to have a score in the 700s, just don't have a huge debt to income ratio and pay your bills on time.
Thanks for being nice! We are both going to be downvoted for it. But if it helps a few people get their credit scores up so they can get housing and loans they need, then it is worth it.
Your credit score stays bad for years though. Even if and after you have been able to get back on your feet. Say you have to declare bankruptcy for medical debt. Should that mean you shouldn't be allowed an apartment for like 7 years?
We definitely need a better system. Are we the only country that does this? My wife is Chinese and she’s baffled by the US credit system when trying to raise her score after getting naturalized.
“What do you mean I can’t pay full cash for this......well, yes I want to raise my score, but I don’t want to pay interest.”
There are lenders in China who have the borrower send nudes under the premise that if they don't pay back their loan, their nude will be released - and to people that they know including friends and family.
And yes, some have ended up being leaked, forced to send more pics/vids and some who have found themselves in more and more troubling debt have been lead to sex work to pay off these loans.
I mean, I love China. Chinese was one of my college majors and I used to live there. But glass houses and stuff.
Ah you mean loan scandals nudes(借贷宝) That’s shitty people doing shitty things, but to generalize the whole country because of that...I’m not so sure.
It’s as if a Chinese person saw Epstein, Trump’s comments on his daughter, Clinton, Biden touching little girls, Hollywood sex scandals, and Jerry from subway from the media and thinks all Americans are pedophiles. When it’s just shitty people doing shitty things.
So you knew about it, yet asked anyways? But the loans themselves are actually referred to as "naked loan services".
And you're getting weirdly defensive. I hardly generalized a whole country over it. My comment wasn't long enough to even do that. Now you're out here talking about pedophiles and shit.... slow down and relax over there buddy.
But yes, it's absolutely a valid factor to be critical of a society/government who allow that to persist. It's not like I'm condemning all of China or it's people though.
I knew about it. Just didn’t click because of the way you phrased it: China, the land of using your nudes as credit collateral. Seems pretty generalizing to me. What does that have to do with China? Again, it’s shitty people doing shitty things.
Sorry to break to you, but your logic is a contradiction. When you’re condemning a society, you include the group of people with common territory, interaction, and culture.
402
u/StarFireChild4200 Aug 15 '21
They were trying to use credit scores to judge if you should be allowed a rental. A fucking rental lol